40 Million Nonbelievers in America? The Secret Is Almost Out

[Just Kate]

The absolute best thing that could ever happen in the current world would be the immediate collapse and disappearance of ALL religious groups. No organized of any type religious believers on earth.
...
The Rules and strictures and organized worship of a few men posing as emissaries of some deity of any sort have ineluctably caused more human suffering, destruction and wanton violence and prejudice than any other one aspect of human existence throughout our history. Well, imo.

I think...
The absolute best thing that could ever happen in the current world would be the immediate collapse and disappearance of ALL greed pursuant groups. No organized of any type greed pursuers on earth.
...
The organizations and organized actions of a few greedy individuals posing as emissaries of some better future of any sort have ineluctably caused more human suffering, destruction and wanton violence and prejudice than any other one aspect of human existence throughout our history. Well, imo.

Greed destroys the world - not religion.

EDIT - let me add 'control' to 'greed' as being the problem.  Some individuals use religion to satisfy the lusts of greed and control.

[Michelle.]

For both sides of this debate...

http://www.thearda.com/

The above site is among the "gold standards" of sites regarding religious data.

The link comes from www.fivethirtyeight.com  a great site when it comes to polling and statistical analysis.

I view the "numbers" in this article with a great deal of spectisism. They offer no explanation in regards to methodolgy. Among them being age, race, sex, location, economic, or education of the respondents. Also no mention of just how the poll was conducted. Worst way to gather poll data...internet surveys. Best way randomly generated phone calls, with additional questions to capture age, race, gender etc etc.

My conclusion.. America is becoming less religious in regards to organization, but remains predominatly spiritual.

[V M]

Rights are only perceived as such when they can be enforced.

I wonder, when our military is downsized and the entire world pissed at us, when our streets are filled with even greater crime than they are now, who will be protecting the right to freedom of religion?

That's a good question, with all the world trying to screw us over all the time and blame us for everything it is hard to tell how long anyones civil right will last
Post Merge: May 10, 2009, 01:07:35 AM

Greed destroys the world - not religion.

EDIT - let me add 'control' to 'greed' as being the problem.  Some individuals use religion to satisfy the lusts of greed and control.

When you say greed pursuers, the first thing I think of is religions. Let me tell you about the invisible man. Oh, and I'll be wanting a monetary contribution at least once a month. And if you need any help we'll be sure to give you some crappy stuff that no-one wants. That way you wont ask for our help again. Don't forget to praise the invisible man 

[TamTam]

Annwyn, my dictionary states atheism is the belief that god does not exist.  It doesn't say anything about 'disbelieving in everything.'  I am fully capable of believing god does not exist, and still being spiritual.

[V M]

I don't follow any particular religion. But folks often tell me I'm a spiritual person and ask what religion I belong to. When I tell them that I'm not into religion, they try to sell me on their's 

[Cindy]

I get fascinated by how some people get totally dependent on a religon. There are some who try different religions until they find the one that fits. Strange. I had a colleague who was a very respected and published scientist who proclaimed he did not agree the evolution existed but every thing was under divine control. When I asked him why he believed such Bull S**t he replied that his religion forbade belief in evolution. He was at comfort ignoring the results of his own work for a quasi religious belief. Strange.

Cindy James. Agnostic. Humanist.

[Annwyn]

Annwyn, my dictionary states atheism is the belief that god does not exist.  It doesn't say anything about 'disbelieving in everything.'  I am fully capable of believing god does not exist, and still being spiritual.

There's two definitions, one being the disbelief of a supreme being or beings, thus everything.

Spirits fall into the category of, "supreme being."

[TamTam]

Well, we are certainly allowed to disagree.  I've been a spiritual atheist for years, so I'm inclined to believe it's possible. The definition I use suits me, I don't care what definition other people use.

[lisagurl]

I consider myself a spiritual atheist, and I don't begrudge anyone their beliefs as long as they don't try to affect my life with them.

Such is impossible.  You cannot believe in something while you actively disbelieve in everything.

I do agree on the desperations of organized religion, specifically ones based off Judaism.

Like you said before an Atheist is someone who does not believe in the person's God or Gods that is using the word. Christians at one time were called Atheists.

Atheists can feel spiritual. They just do not believe it is created by a God of someone else's choosing. Much of religious tradition is to bring about spiritual feelings. Dogma on the other hand is to control people which is political power.

God does not have to be a deity.

God can be the answer to questions that have no answers yet. An agnostic can also be that but does not demand some else's beliefs are wrong they just do not embrace them.

[Vexing]

I consider myself a spiritual atheist, and I don't begrudge anyone their beliefs as long as they don't try to affect my life with them.

Spiritual how?
If there is a rational basis for your spiritual belief, then sure.
Otherwise, applying the atheist label to yourself is doing a disservice to rational, freethinking atheists.

[lisagurl]

freethinking

Have you read "Freethinkers"  by Susan Jacoby  ?

Spiritual feelings are on the inside, you do not have to believe in any God or religion to have them. You also can believe that they do not have anything to do with a God. They are created by you in your brain with the help of perception.

[Vexing]

No.

Define "Spiritual Feelings", as I have not idea what you are talking about.

[Lisbeth]

I don't care much for organized religion myself.

I much prefer disorganized religion.

[TamTam]

Otherwise, applying the atheist label to yourself is doing a disservice to rational, freethinking atheists.

Lol.

I don't care if I 'do a disservice' to anyone. I do not believe in god.  That is the only qualification necessary to be an atheist.  If 'atheism' meant "disbelief in anything and everything related to the spiritual," that's what would be in the dictionary.

[Vexing]

Ah. The dictionary.
The finest 10th grade resource available!
I'm not a huge fan of it, as far as defining reality goes

But sure; by that definition, you're certainly an atheist.
I'm curious; what 'spiritual' things do you believe in? What's your basis of evidence for believing in them?

[TamTam]

I believe we have spirits/souls of some sort; because I have far too many family members and friends who I personally find credible who have had experiences with ghosts.  Including myself, to a certain degree.

I believe in an afterlife of some kind, again because of the ghost thing.

And I believe in reincarnation [though not karma], after extensive research [spent like two years researching it] and, well.. I'm tired and don't feel like repeating what I said in this post, lol.

I have a few other slightly more 'out-there' beliefs that I don't feel like getting into here, but those are my main ones.  I tend not to believe in anything without scrutinizing it first, until it stands up to my own standards.  I've gone through many a personal crisis after learning new information that puts into question a previously-held belief; however, either the belief stands up to the new info or it doesn't.  I don't like living in denial so if I find contradictory evidence, I have no problem taking it into account.  I don't consider myself the kind of person who is irrational, but I also don't think spiritual beliefs have to be irrational.

[Vexing]

Apart from the reincarnation aspect (for which I would require much more evidence than anecdotal stories), I can understand your stance.
Personally, I wouldn't call your stance 'spiritual' at all.

[TamTam]

What would you call it?

[V M]

Having a good stance can be important at times. What it has to do spirituality, I'm not sure 

[Vexing]

What would you call it?

I wasn't aware that it required a label.
'Paranormal' will do.