40 Million Nonbelievers in America? The Secret Is Almost Out

[NicholeW.]

40 Million Nonbelievers in America? The Secret Is Almost Out
By Ronald Aronson   
April 28, 2009

http://www.religiondispatches.org/archive/religionandtheology/1381/40_million_nonbelievers_in_america_the_secret_is_almost_out

As reported in yesterday's New York Times, a South Carolina chapter of Habitat for Humanity prohibited a group of Secular Humanist volunteers from wearing their "Non-Prophet Organization" T-shirts; a Charleston-area teacher "came out" as a nonbeliever after years of church dinners and demurrals; and Humanist Loretta Haskell struggled over her role as a church musician. While such stories remain commonplace, a related story with a substantial bearing on these anecdotes is one of America's best-kept secrets.

A recent Newsweek cover—in a bid to (finally) match the celebrated 1966 "Is God Dead?" cover of Time—read, in the shape of a cross: "The Decline and Fall of Christian America." Editor Jon Meacham's story highlights Newsweek's latest poll results showing that 10% fewer Americans identify as Christian today than twenty years ago. But more importantly, and mentioned only in passing, is the growth among atheists and secularists of all stripes.

[lisagurl]

I do not think God is losing favor but religion is. Religion is now more of a social club. The word God has a very flexible meaning. It would be wrong to automatically call non believers atheists.

[tekla]

I would imagine that most nonbelievers would term themselves as 'agnostic' more than 'atheist.'

It's not that they deny the possibility and existence of senescence beings beyond us, they just think that in light of what we know, the previously agreed to stories, folktales, superstitions, myths and texts don't seem to ring true. It would seem that the vastness and complexity of the universe a god made in lovingly in our image and likeness ain't cutting it anymore.  At the very least, it's highly unlikely that what ever created both DNA and the universe we know see through Hubble and Chandra is spending their spare time writing - or dictating - books to humans.

And given the history of martyrs, pogroms, inquisitions, crusades, jihads, witch trials, suicide cults and suicide bombers, not to mention people who follow a prince of peace, or a religion of peace that have their own armies, people who claim that god hates drugs & gays and have meth habits and gay hookers, people who swear to poverty and live a live so lavish that kings would be shamed, there is not exactly a shortage of things not to like about the entire concept.

And, at that, I bet he 40 million number is way low.  Lots of people are afraid for saying so, and lots more 'believe' as some sort of business networking device than anything based on actual faith.

[ilikepotatoes]

The article doesn't equate nonbeliever with atheist.

[Vexing]

Atheism: absence of belief in the existence of deities.
i.e. non-belief.

[ilikepotatoes]

As I understand the term, non-believers is an umbrella term that can include agnostics as well as atheists, and skeptics among others. An atheist is a non-believer, but not every non-believer is an atheist. I think the article was following that definition.

Like how if you look of the definition of a poodle, it will say a poodle is a dog, but not every dog is a poodle.

Or how a transsexual is a transgendered person, but not every transgendered person is a transsexual.

I'm an atheist by the way.

[Annwyn]

I despise Christianity with all my heart, they wrecked belief in the Old Gods with violence and oppression.  Still, they set a standard for a society without morals to cling to and gasp as they prospered in fake righteousness.

The decline of Christianity will continually result in freedom of intellect and reason to be practiced in every day deduction.  However, moral decay for most of humanity will follow: humans just aren't strong enough to follow a set of morals without some sort of spiritual fear instilled into them.

40 million non-believers in America, coinciding with a 48 billion dollar a year annual prison funding, increasing crime and drug usage, increasing spread of STDs and federal spending to treat STDs, increasing morbid obesity, increasing divorce rates and lack of family values, and a crumbling economy.  Sure they have nothing to do with each other.  I doubt the pope will think so though.
Post Merge: May 09, 2009, 09:22:24 PM

Atheism: absence of belief in the existence of deities.
i.e. non-belief.

Atheism is disbelief of a one or more deities.  It is the active belief that there isn't a god.

Agnosticism is indifference, a lack of belief, not an active and opposing belief.

Don't confuse the two.

[Suzy]

I really doubt the authenticity of this data.  It appears closely tied to the way the question is asked. 

In 1966 , when the original Time Magazine article appeared, the population of the United States was 196,560,338.  Today is has topped 306,387,000.  Much of that is immigrant population from places that are not generally identified with typical American Christianity.  Yet, the questions asked seem to be the same while the world has changed.  I have done enough statistical data analysis in my time to know that this stuff can be massaged in any convenient way.  Beliefnet, a Christian organization also celebrates some positive trends in the numbers.  So who is to say?

Another consideration is the sample size.  They surveyed 54000 people.  That is just over 0.01% of the population.  The numbers were then extracted back to get a total number of nonbelievers in the United States.  I have trouble with that as the chances of accuracy are not as good as throwing darts at a board.  They may be right, but there is just no way to know if their sample represents anything like a true cross section of the population.  With its size I just doubt it.  While I know it sounds huge to say that the actual number nearly doubled, there is no necessary correlation with entire population.  A different group may have showed just the opposite.  Or perhaps not.  We will never know.

Kristi

[Vexing]

Personally, whether the data was accurate or not, I embrace such change.
There is no reason to live our 21st century lives by the mad ramblings of nomadic, bronze-age goatherds.

[Suzy]

Atheism is belief of a one or more deities. 

Absolutely ludicrous!

Kristi

[Annwyn]

Absolutely ludicrous!

Kristi

Typo.  Have some sympathy for the broken finger, seriously.

[V M]

I don't care much for organized religion myself. I worship Mother Nature and the Garden is her Church 

[ilikepotatoes]

Kristi, actually, a sample size of 54,000 people is large enough to give a very accurate account of the US population. If they would have done the poll with  54,000 new people the results would have been the same due to how this polling organizations know how poll accurately.

As far as how the question was worded, the article doesn't give us the question. It also says the polls estimates the numbers of atheist and agnostic total in this country is only 3.6 million. The 40 million number comes from the article's author making assumptions.

[NicholeW.]

The absolute best thing that could ever happen in the current world would be the immediate collapse and disappearance of ALL religious groups. No organized of any type religious believers on earth.

Believe, if you must, in caring for the cleanness and liveability of your home and the interrelatedness of various forms of life.

The Rules and strictures and organized worship of a few men posing as emissaries of some deity of any sort have ineluctably caused more human suffering, destruction and wanton violence and prejudice than any other one aspect of human existence throughout our history. Well, imo.

[Suzy]

Kristi, actually, a sample size of 54,000 people is large enough to give a very accurate account of the US population. If they would have done the poll with  54,000 new people the results would have been the same due to how this polling organizations know how poll accurately.

As far as how the question was worded, the article doesn't give us the question. It also says the polls estimates the numbers of atheist and agnostic total in this country is only 3.6 million. The 40 million number comes from the article's author making assumptions.

Perhaps that is true and perhaps that is not.  For such an important study this is indeed in line with possible size requirements if and only if they would tell us their assumptions they used in selecting the sample.   Other organization such as Gallup do this.  Larger samples do not always mean more accurate results, but bad assumptions always mean skewed data.  As I said, we will just never know.

Nichole, my dear friend, of course we do not agree on this in the least.  We have had that discussion before and will not change each others' minds.  I simply ask you how it would feel if I said:

The absolute best thing that could ever happen in the current world would be the immediate collapse and disappearance of ALL non-religious groups. No type of non-religious on earth...

Personally I think we should refrain in trying to dictate what anyone believes or how they worship, let alone wishing for anyone's demise.  Believe (or don't) what you wish and I will support you in it.  But it seems pretty obvious that wishing for anything like that is practicing precisely what you are accusing religions of.  Prejudice is prejudice no matter what guise it is found in. 

Peace,
Kristi

[Annwyn]

let alone wishing for anyone's demise.

Yes.  Demise would be nice.

[V M]

Like I've mentioned before, freedom of religion is a right in the US. Hell, worship the Cat in the Hat or Bugs Bunny for all I care 

[Annwyn]

Like I've mentioned before, freedom of religion is a right in the US. Hell, worship the Cat in the Hat or Bugs Bunny for all I care 

Rights are only perceived as such when they can be enforced.

I wonder, when our military is downsized and the entire world pissed at us, when our streets are filled with even greater crime than they are now, who will be protecting the right to freedom of religion?

[TamTam]

IMO, it's not religion or organized religion itself that's bad.  It's the type of religion that states "anyone who disagrees with me is going to hell, and I'm going to help them get there," and/or "this is what I believe, so I'm going to pass laws enforcing that belief on everyone, even those who disagree."  An atheism that basically states/practices the same thing using different words is just as bad.  If organized religion disappeared tomorrow, people would find new reasons to judge and recreate the same problems we have now.  Religion is used an as excuse to do bigoted things, but it is not the cause.

I consider myself a spiritual atheist, and I don't begrudge anyone their beliefs as long as they don't try to affect my life with them.

[Annwyn]

I consider myself a spiritual atheist, and I don't begrudge anyone their beliefs as long as they don't try to affect my life with them.

Such is impossible.  You cannot believe in something while you actively disbelieve in everything.

I do agree on the desperations of organized religion, specifically ones based off Judaism.