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Suicide

Started by Julie Marie, September 10, 2006, 09:26:02 AM

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Scott


It's amazing isn't it?

The number of responses that came from this one-word topic. The only thing that even begins to run a close second are the words gym class--LOL.

There's no doubt about it-- life is rough for people in our situation. I was hospitalized (locked) in a psych unit 3 times because of being suicidal. That's not counting the times and attempts (unsucessful- obviously) that no one knew about.

I know most of you have differing opinions than me, but I believe that God holds a special place in His heart for us, He knows how difficult it is for us. I believe it is because of Him and some special friends He's placed in my life (angels) is the reason I'm still here. The good news is that He loves us whether we believe He does or not.

I've also heard the suicide rate amonst us is 50%. I believe it is now starting to decline. I must say how grateful I am for the brave souls who went before me who opened the pathways in order for me to do this, just as we have also helped those who will be or are following us.

I hope the young men and women on here know how fortunate they are to be doing this early in their lives and will therefore have less baggage (and history) to carry with them.

Take care and God bless all of you,
Scott
  •  

Bob

One thing I have learned through this life is Just how Tough Life is to kill off...
no this isn't a plesent thought but its the truth... Life in itself wants to live
thats its purpose... even if its realy messed up it still wants to keep on going.
weather our brains think the same or not is immeterial.  so its harder to Kill your self than you first think. chances are you will be unsuccessfull... then where will you be at ?
perhaps crippled ? perhaps 3/4 brain dead and a burdon to others ?  this is a serious subject and demands serious answers, the answer is don't even attempt it !  you will just make things worse. so grin and bear it and  struggle through !
...
  I am torn between saying its easy for a person that has enough intestinal fortitude to kill ones self, and saying its alot harder than you think !
by that I mean  even though you have the guts to do the act it doesn't mean you will be successfull... and a failed attempt only adds to your even lower self esteam.. you could wind up in a worse siduation than you are now and still be alive without any ability to attempt to do yourself in again ! ... then you WOULD be in a liveing hell !
...
this isn't a scare tactic... this is the truth... look at all the posts of people that have attempted sewiside ... what makes you think you are smarter than they are ?  don't you think they KNEW what they were doing at the time ?   so instead of risking putting yourself in a much worse siduation, don't even attempt it in the first place.
if things are that tough for you get OUT and GET AWAY.... some times we need a brake  just to survive.  if that means running off , then so be it !
that is better than sewer-side by far.
( Sewerside by the way is defined as jumping in the torlet and flishing it!)<grin>
...
my 2 coppers
Bob........


  •  

Julie Marie

One of the strongest arguments I've ever heard against suicide is how selfish it is seen by those who survive it.  And if you think about it, it's true.  It may be the most selfish act we can take.

We are a community of almost totally selfless people.  We have given up who we really are in hopes of making those we love happy.  Our happiness has always been secondary at best.  Geez, it is any wonder why we want to give up and decide to cash in the chips?

Well, yes, there is a reason.  Just take a moment to appreciate the wonderful people here.  See how they want to help.  See how they are there for you.  It doesn't matter if you are FTM ot MTF, this is a great group united.  Where else can you get that?

When thoughts of suicide creep into your mind, think of how you would feel if someone you became attached to decided to commit suicide.  We are in a cyber world (which makes it worse) but that doesn't diminish the fact we are closely united.  Suicide is selfish because you left this world without consideration of me, because you took your own life without thinking about all of those who love you.  You never gave us a chance to talk to you, to understand why you feel the need to leave and most importantly to say goodbye.  Yeah, suicide is selfish. And I am being selfish because I want you in my life, forever.
When you judge others, you do not define them, you define yourself.
  •  

Ricki

I often wondered about things and the post bob posted and Julie Maries recent post!  everyones situation is different and some came close others not close at all.  I was one of those ones who in theory did everything right and yet bullet fragments missed all vital parts of my heart? go figure, after the recovery which i had a lot of time spiritually to reflect with God i was unsure and still not sure now?
How does this work???????????????
At this very moment a horrible accident could tragically take the life of a mother on a street corner or a father on his way home from a late day at work, a whole family travelling in  a car going to their in laws, a murderous rapist could be killing (probably is) someone in some city right now?  A liquor store robbery gone bad a person gets shot and dies?  a baby born still birth, dead....
Cancer strikes down a mother in her prime leaving her husband and family behind?
A shelf of heavy paints gives way in a large department store and curshes a shopper to death by sheer accident?
Please i wish i knew or understood how this worked?
I was going to well i am goign to do a new post on the subject of dying, but for the life of me I do not understand how some poeples are taken from this world when they do not wanna leave it and others who all but pray for the end do not get it?????
Ricki
  •  

Bob

Ricki   you can look for meaning in anything you want ... but that doesn't mean you'll find reason in it.
a roll of the dice, being in the right spot at the wrong time.... providence, forordination... gods will.... fate....
call it what you like ... if there is a reason for it I doubt you'll find it this side of death, and then perhaps not even after.
How does it work ? its Random ! thats not an elegant statement, its not philosophical but it does however work that way.... life is a roll of the dice... some get a rather crummy roll while others get the lucky numbers... why ?   People have been trying to answer that for centuries... thats where religons come in at .... why do you have to know how it works in the first place ? because you are courious ? because you think its too controled to be just a roll of the dice ?  there is realy no answer to your question as to how life works
it just does... it does it in very strange ways... accept life for what it realy is and don't try to cover the harsh reality with the flowers of religon or cover it with the tarp of forgitfullness...  Accept it.  plane and simple, it isn't hard to do at all
but it is accnolageing that Bad things happen to the good.... good things happen to the bad.... it is all in how YOU the viewer Precieve it.... and all the time life goes on about you... paying you no heed at all .... constantly moveing, constantly growing...
it isn't a bad thing, it isn't a good thing... it just is ...
...
Like i try to tell my wife, its like the lion in Africia he hunts and kills to survive...  this lion kills a gazell , its not meanness, its not because of spite, he does it to survive... it just is...
the Gazell died to feed the lion cubs they grow and soon join the hunt and kill more gazell, not out of anger or spite but to survive.   why must they do this in order to survive ?  because that is the way life is.... its nasty , its brutal, its harsh and its buitiful and its fantastic beyond words....
for a good side there is a bad side,  it all ballances out... to be dust in the end
if you want to understand life then Look at it, in all its forms, don't take someone elses words for it... do it yourself... you will be inriched by doing so!.
Life can be good or life can be bad.... you can change the bad into good or change the good into bad.... its up to you, if you set on your laurels and watch life go by it most definately will pass you by... again... its up to you weather or not you want to be happy in this life or not... you have to control it enough to make that happen.
if you wait for fate or God  or hoodini to do it for you you will miss the boat.
life is no picknic... its a tough time most of the time... there are peeks of joy every now and again that make it all worth while.... but remember YOU make those peeks happen
its not fate, its not designed that way...
I suppose if you just sat back and let life go by and watched it you'ed have those random peeks of joy anyway....as well as the sorrows... thats just how it is... but you can make more joy in your life and in the lives of others if you work at it...nobody said it was easy... I just said it can be done !
...
My 2 coppers !
Bob..........

  •  

Tiffany2

  I will add my experience with attempting. I don't really expect anyone to believe it as most just ridicule it. It did however show me suicide is celf-centered and a tragedy to those left behind. Not to mention it showed me how precious my families lives are whether they agree with me or not.
  I was depressed and wanted to die.
  I loaded my Smith and Wesson model 586 357 magnum with one hollow point. I stuck the barrel in my mouth and pulled back the hammer. My index finger pulled back the hammer while my thumb rested on the trigger.
  As I prepared to pull the trigger I saw my wife and children in front of me sitting on the sofa crying. I believe it was a vision but some will think different. The truth is I really felt numb and uncaring. I just wanted the pain to end.
  When I saw this vision a stern male voice spoke to me as in full control of what would happen. His voice was one of authority and very steady.
  "Is this what you want?"
  I pulled the gun out of my mouth and it went off in the bedroom. My wife sat up and shouted what is going on?
  I told her I was cleaning my gun and it went off. Years later I told her the truth.
  As I think back on it that gun had a hair trigger and should have gone off. It was my favorite.
  I may get ridiculed but I do believe it was the Lord allowing me to make my choice. I chose life and to use the remainder to put aside my selfish attitude and help others. I hate my life but suicide is not the way out. Even the Lord commanded us to be willing to hate our life in this world to keep it to life eternal.
  I guess I'm blessed with seeing what the emotions of my family would be when I'm gone. It's not fair to them for me to be a self-centered coward and leave them in a lasting pain.
  That is also why I take my spiritual views so seriously.
  Hope I didn't overstep my bounds or anger anyone.

  Tiffany
  •  

Cindi Jones

Tiff, good for you.  Your gun chose wisely. It's easy to see why it was your favorite.  And for Pete's sake... you need not worry about offending anyone.  Say it!  Everyone here is very respectful.

Cindi
Author of Squirrel Cage
  •  

Bob

After reading my Previous post I realise how athiestic it sounds.  though it was not ment that way...
there may well be a God controling everything going on ... I for one don't think so but it is Possable that I am totally wrong in that view. Believeing in God is extreamily important to some.. it gives them hope where there was no hope before, it gives them reason where there was no reason before. this is a good thing, not a bad thing.
I truly believe there is life after death, I just don't believe its going to be as the religons of the day point at it to being.
I take solis in the fact that " Don't take life too seriously as you can't get out of it alive"   to me that is conforting...as  it depicts that life is a proveing ground, a learning place.... something is supposed to be done here...
  Now what that something IS remains to be discovered for each person... nobody can tell you what that certain thing is...
I have had a Nagging preocupation all my life... that tells me to learn more and more
I can't get enough... I want to know ALL I can.... I don't know why... I should be happy the way I am ... but I'm not ... I want to know the details... the fine points of everything..... Unfortionately Schools and education don't seam to be the answer as I have tried them and was completely miserable in the proccess... I learned in one week all they tought for the rest of the 9 months.. it was a terrable waste of time.
I see no real logical reason for this desire except that it is my reason for being here in the first place...it could be natural selection in action, or it could be the reason I am here... that I chose to come here to learn more...because I didn't know enough before.
what ever the case may be  we each need to find why we are here... and there is alot of guess work involved... you may truly NEVER KNOW..... but you may well be right on the button.
...
Suicide realy isn't the answer because I have been there 2 times in my life...
and each time what stopped me was "thats giveing up"  and I'm hardheadded enough that I'll never give up ...when I do its the day I die... till then I will fight... my Momm'a didn't raise a coward, or a total dummy. so as long as I'm stuck here I will make the best of it...one way or another !
No Sir.... I won't give up TODAY ! it could be easy and fast and few would care, but NOT TODAY .
thats what you have to do ... get the mind set..." I'm Not Frigging GIVEING UP for anyone!... Not even myself! "
then put one foot in front of the other and move on...
pain goes away with time.
hart aches heal with time.
your entire Life will change with TIME...
so give it a chance !
....
Bob.......
  •  

Genevieve

I just can't stop crying sometimes.

I feel so lost. I feel like a freak. I feel like if I stay , no one will ever accept me. Yet, if I go......I don't know.

I feel like I've lost my gender identity and can't find me any more. I'm not a man, yet I'm not a woman. Maybe I've put so much effort into trying to be a man that I can't quite shed parts of it. I don't feel female right now. I don't look female. I may not ever. I feel Gwyneth inside me, but she's so tired. She's struggled so hard in my life, only to be buried over and over.

I've found myself doing things that are risky or somewhat painful sexually just to get a bit of a rush, even though I know they could lead to my being hurt, possibly fatally. I hate my genetalia. I've contemplated ending my life so many times.

I just can't see the road ahead. I can't see the future.

I don't know what to do. I'm just trying to move one tiny bit ahead at a time, minute by minute, hoping the little house of cards that is my life doesn't come crashing down on me in an instant. I'm just trying to get through to see my therapist once more, hoping she'll shed some light or hope to keep me struggling till the next session. I believe she can help.

I'm trying to stay alive, I really am. Gwyneth want's her chance.

Genevieve
  •  

Sandy

I won't add my suicide story here.  Suffice it to say that like others have said, I tried and it didn't take.  I tried multiple times and I kept failing.

Nothing really depresses you more than a seriously failed suicide attempt.  I felt like a failure at life and a failure at death.  Some days you can't win!  These were no cries for help.  I waited until I was alone and sure no one would find me until I was well gone.

And more to the point, my male persona, is who wanted to die.  He wasn't a bad man, just terribly, terribly hurt over so many years.  He took care of me for so many years, but finally couldn't take the pain any longer.  It is better that he sleep now, away from the pain.

Now I feel that there would be so many people who would be disappointed in me were I to kill myself.

I am facing my most difficult time in my life.  I really don't know how it will turn out.  But I really don't want to kill myself.  I hope I can continue to feel that way.

To others who also feel the despair, please have hope.  I don't know what help I could be, but I would do anything in my power to help.

Suicide is a selfish lonely act.  Know that with others like us you are not alone.

-Sandy
Out of the darkness, into the light.
Following my bliss.
I am complete...
  •  

Ricki

Very nice Bob, I know all this i guess it just helps to rehear it and hear someone elses take on things as well.  Thanks
Gwen...Hang in there Bob made many valid points in his post re-read please!
Ricki
  •  

Bob

Gwen   
Remember this... Gweneth will NEVER get her chance if you do your self in !
We all Know how you feel, we all have been there it is no new story... been there done that!
So you are not alone... but you are among profesionals !   Profesionals of Pain !  ( no not that kind! )  the emotional pain of every day life... its a constant drag on your soul
we've been there... you are not alone... so what advice can we give ? sense we are so almighty wize ?  Just tough it out Kiddo !  there is no snap of the fingers and you'll be happy for ever... life doesn't work that way... but YOU can change what you don't like about yourself... and that is just as good !  but you gott'a make up your mind to do it  because no one else will.... you can make yourself happy... you dont have to be sad all the time..... happyness or sadness is a figment of the mind... it truly is ! and because of that you can be in any mood you want to be in.  its easier said than done however but well worth the effort.
Make up your mind that tomarrow you will be happy... and work to that end...  just incase that being happy now it too much for you to believe ! ... You see ? its You who believe it or not... its you who are sad at your own will or happy at your own will...
you have to alow yourself this luxury.... you have to take that much control of your own mind.
  I consider myself a happy person... so happy infact that i rarely have to work at being happy any more because I am just fine most of the time... not extatically happy  nor exceedingly sad.... in between... right where I WANT to be... occasionally I have to work at being happy  but not too often... but in times past it was every day for what seamed like years... when I know full well it was just a few months.
this Period of sadness came upon me like a ton of bricks when I finally realised that the religon I was following was simply man made  and followed few of the bibles examples
I was a radical religious finatic with the rug pulled out from under him... who do you turn to then ? the pastor ? the undertaker ? I still had 3/4 of my life yet to live and discovered that the first 1/4 was spent with time Wasted...
but as I said, I desided I was going to be happy anyway... and indeed I was...
from everything from makeing faces in the mirror to reading joke books over and over I pulled out the stops.... because I was so very sad deep inside.  and the amazeing thing is .... it worked... within 3 months I was a changed person,  I could look to the future
something I hadn't done in years.
  You can and Must control your own mind ... else how can you live ?  I don't mean being scatterbrained is a bad thing , on the contary its a good thing because you are thinking so quickly !
I mean by alowing yourself to be happy or sad is YOUR choice.... its not curcumstances that dictate your emotional state.... Its true that it has been up to now, but you must change that !  when You can do that the use of the S&M 357 Magnum is No longer needed ...even on the worst of days

this is the entire Point... You must control your emotional state and stop alowing the world arround you to do it. 
it will save your life... and it will make your life worth liveing again.
but it is totally up to you and no one else !
....
my 2 coppers!
Bob.......
  •  

Julie Marie

Quote from: Genevieve on November 05, 2006, 04:20:51 PM
I just can't stop crying sometimes.

I feel so lost. I feel like a freak. I feel like if I stay , no one will ever accept me. Yet, if I go......I don't know.

I feel like I've lost my gender identity and can't find me any more. I'm not a man, yet I'm not a woman. Maybe I've put so much effort into trying to be a man that I can't quite shed parts of it. I don't feel female right now. I don't look female. I may not ever. I feel Gwyneth inside me, but she's so tired. She's struggled so hard in my life, only to be buried over and over.

I've found myself doing things that are risky or somewhat painful sexually just to get a bit of a rush, even though I know they could lead to my being hurt, possibly fatally. I hate my genetalia. I've contemplated ending my life so many times.

I just can't see the road ahead. I can't see the future.

I don't know what to do. I'm just trying to move one tiny bit ahead at a time, minute by minute, hoping the little house of cards that is my life doesn't come crashing down on me in an instant. I'm just trying to get through to see my therapist once more, hoping she'll shed some light or hope to keep me struggling till the next session. I believe she can help.

I'm trying to stay alive, I really am. Gwyneth want's her chance.

Genevieve

If you want to cry, cry.  Let it out.  Keeping it in is part of the nonsense society teaches boys and men.  You are a woman.  You are allowed to cry.  When my family moved out and I was left alone I cried.  When I knew I had to transition I cried.  And you know what?  I felt better afterwards.  For six months I cried almost every day.  Then one day it stopped.  The gloomy skies cleared and the sun shone brightly. 

This is a big change in anyone's life.  Society has successfully brainwashed us into believing transitioning is wrong.  I have yet to hear one common sense reason as to why.  Can you think of any?  All we want is to find inner peace and happiness.  What's so wrong with that?  We are surrounded by people who have no idea what it's like to have a mind/body gender conflict.  Does that mean we have to keep them in the dark and not upset their safe and happy worlds by suppressing our true selves?  Sorry, I don't buy into that.  I'm not responsible for the happiness of the world.  That's their issue, not mine.

Keep taking baby steps, but keep moving forward.  "Don't let the bastards wear you down."  Happiness is on the horizon.  You'll get there.

Julie
When you judge others, you do not define them, you define yourself.
  •  

Jessica

I have very strong feelings on this particular subject as some of my close friends here know.

Allow me to say this.
Those of us who are in transition expect others to recognize the fact that we, each individual, knows what is best for us.  We hope that, at the very least, they accept our right to make that choice.  Could that 'choice' (for lack of a better word) be construed as selfish by those around you? Certainly, of course it could.  You were choosing your needs over their need to have you remain your old self.

This same arguement is made for suicide.  While you may believe it is the ultimate selfish act that one can make, you must accept that they have the right to make it as it is their life to live.  While you may believe it is the ultimate selfish act that one can do, I believe it is far more selfish to ask that person to continue to live a life of absolute and utter misery so you can continue to see them.

Respect one anothers decisions, whether you personally agree with them or not.
It is nothing less than what those of you who are in transition hope of others.

This is a big change in anyone's life.  Society has successfully brainwashed us into believing transitioning suicide is wrong.  I have yet to hear one common sense reason as to why.  Can you think of any?  All we want is to find inner peace and happiness.  What's so wrong with that?

Sincerely,
Jessica
  •  

Julie Marie

Quote from: Jessica on November 06, 2006, 08:26:15 AM
This is a big change in anyone's life.  Society has successfully brainwashed us into believing transitioning suicide is wrong.  I have yet to hear one common sense reason as to why.  Can you think of any?  All we want is to find inner peace and happiness.  What's so wrong with that?

Sincerely,
Jessica

Gotta disagree with you on this one Jessica.  How many people who have attempted suicide now say they are happy they failed?  Suicide is far different than transitioning.  With transitioning you trade one life for another.  With suicide you end a life, period.  If the person is truly committed to suicide they will succeed.  But there are those who succeed who aren't.  They were just going through a rough time.

We go through therapy to see whether we really want to transition.  If everyone who wanted to take their life went through therapy how many would come out still wanting to do it?  Too often suicide is a knee jerk reaction.  Many times they are drunk or on drugs.  They aren't thinking clearly.  That's why we preach it's selfish or wrong.  To get the people to think before they act on an impulse.  Few people are forever miserable with their lives.

Julie
When you judge others, you do not define them, you define yourself.
  •  

Bob

Intresting ! ... I too feel as its My choice not someone elses and it urks me to think that others think they can control me if I deside to commit suiside...
its My life... not theirs...if i dside to end it its MY choice and Not theirs.... no moral teachings will change that fact... though I agree that suiside is not the answer it is however MY CHOICE   I truly believe life can be a liveing hell and much worse than dieing
there for there are times where takeing ones own life is justified. and no cort of law should punish anyone helping someone do this ...its their desigon...helping is a mercifull act not murder.....
   I hold this view Knowing Much about life and its ups and downs... it is a last resort
I for one would rather be dead than hooked up to a machine in some hospital for years at a time.... to me THAT is a sin !  where do you draw the line ?  because that person may well come out of their comma and live a normal life after being hooked to the machines for 3 years.... what is right ?  it lies with the individual.
   I can be very Cold when it comes to my views on life and death. because Life is itself very cold ,brutal and harsh....
  you can pass all the laws you want, to say Suiside is iligal ( and they have) but people will still do it , simply because they think Death is better than life.
what is needed is Education ! to show these people that Life is worth liveing in the first place... that is a tall order when the persons Life is a liveing hell.
.... all I can say is Life does get better ! it realy does... it can get worse ofcorse but it usually gets better, because we strive to make it better every day.
  if you take your life because this month everything has gone wrong that possably can go wrong...you simply won't be here when everything goes right .... and that is a tradgity in itself.
    I have played at length with Random numbers, and its truly hard to get a truly random number on a computer un known to most... but it can be done... and you would be supprized
at the outcome.... I ran a test thinking any number below 50 was a bad number  and any number above 50 was a good number..... I Ran it
I was amagzed    the first 12 numbers were below 50... after that 3 or 4 were above 50 then back to the bad numbers... then suddenly a string of good numbers came up that was 20 or 30 long , then a few bad again.....
this is exactly how life throws stuff at you.... some good some bad a string of good  a string of bad... and you never know from day to daywhat you'll get.... but you are better off than the truly random numbers because you can INFLUANCE the good and bad in real life.... and in so doing you can make more good numbers come up than the bad.
BUT.... that takes You being active... you can't just sit on the bench and watch the world go by ... you have to partisipate in life to change it into your favor.

...
my 2 coppers
Bob......

  •  

Jessica

QuoteWe go through therapy to see whether we really want to transition.  If everyone who wanted to take their life went through therapy how many would come out still wanting to do it?  Too often suicide is a knee jerk reaction.  Many times they are drunk or on drugs.  They aren't thinking clearly.

I agree that impulsive thinking is very harmful in ANY decision.
I agree that irrational thinking is very harmful in ANY decision.
I do not agree that suicide is always the result of impulsive and/or irrational thinking.
Therefore, suicide is not always wrong.
In some cases, it is the result of a long, very carefully thought out, and very well executed plan.

Quotewhat is needed is Education ! to show these people that Life is worth liveing in the first place... that is a tall order when the persons Life is a liveing hell.
.... all I can say is Life does get better ! it realy does... it can get worse ofcorse but it usually gets better, because we strive to make it better every day.

Bob, consider this, that in some cases, to that person, life will never be worth living.  Of course, your life is worth living to you, or you wouldn't be here.  But, it is impossible to understand someone else from that persons point of view.  You can imagine how you would feel in their situation, but it's not possible to truely understand exactly how they feel.

My point to all of this, is it is impossible to judge the act of suicide.
Yes, it's possible to point out the ones that attempted it and regret it.
Of course it is also possible to point out the ones that impulsively decided to do it.
Stupid decisions are made all of the time.
However, my point is, suicide is not always the result of a stupid decision, therefore, it is impossible to judge the ACT of suicide as always being selfish.

To tell someone that has thought it over for a long time, has developed a plan, is in the process of executing that plan over the course of years, and then after years of contemplation and planning executes the final maneuver to that plan, that suicide isn't worth it, it's selfish, and that he or she will regret it is not only futile, it is also extremely self-rightous.  In effect, it's saying that you know how to live their life better than they do.

Furthermore, I would argue the following point.
Therapy requirement for transitioning should also be required for suicide!
The parallels are important.

Transitioning is a life altering, non-reversible (for all intents and purposes) proceedure.

If you could transition on a whim and it were irreversible for example you drink something and it's done, no way back, I am certain that there would be PLENTY of people who would do it and regret it. 

However, there would be a few, like you and me, who would do it with no regrets whatsoever.

Unfortunately, suicide is something that can be done on a whim and people attempt it and regret it all the time.  However, to dismiss all of those that suicide as whimsical, spur of the moment decisions.  It's important to remember that before judging the act as stupid, or selfish, or any of the many adjectives used to describe suicide.

Jessica
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beth

             This may be harsh so read on at your own risk. Having put much thought into suicide I can attest to it's involvement with others. It is your personal choice, but who will clean your blood and brains from the walls, floor and ceiling?  Who will find you with your head half blown off and at least a gallon of coagulated blood on the floor? Who made the gun, medication or whatever available, could have taken it away or neglected to know you had it? Who will have the words from your note torment themselves for years?  Who heard your torment but didn't do enough to help you? How will your action affect a policeman and tow truck driver? How about the truck driver you step in front of?  Will he forever feel guilty or will he swerve and kill himself and others? If there are no witnesses and no body who will wonder for the next 30 years what happened to you?  Suicide often includes many selfish components. I have listed just a few of them here because they need to be considered. I would hope no one would have ever have to go to that dark place again.


beth
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Lori

How do we know as humans that suicide is wrong? Because we were taught that? By whom? Nobody with experience can say whether its worth it or not. All we are left with is failed suicide attempts or the bodies from those that have succeeded and they are not saying anything about how good or bad of an idea it was. 

I'm not going to say whether suicide is right or wrong because until you die, you dont know the truth. We are taught in this culture (I'm an American) that if you kill yourself you will go to hell because you have taken a life and "though shalt not kill." To me that says don't kill, but it doesnt say "though shalt not die." It just a matter of interpretation.

I've said before in the past that other cultures consider it honorable to commit suicide and its expected if you screw up really big. If we were Japenese it wouldn't be such a big ordeal. I feel society places blame and horror on those considering it because they dont want to have to deal with the depressed relatives, and the clean up and left wondering why. If they really cared they would have found another answer to the issues at hand that lead to somebody taking that action in the first place or figured out why before it happened.

Some suicidal because of mental issues and really have no other choice. I actually feel bad for them, becuase its really not thier fault. Others do it because they feel they have no choice. Some do it because they are just tired. There are a million reasons to do it. Instead of focusing on how horrible it is, shouldnt we look at the other side of it? The individual is no longer in pain. No more stress, taxes, bills, hatred from society and problems. Personaly I feel suicide is not a cop-out but a final solution to any issue.

In the event I have to transition I will give it my best. If I fail as in I dont pass, or turn out to be a freak, make no mistake about what I will do. I will just simply disappear. This isnt a threat or a cry out for help. I dont want help, I want to be able to mingle with society care free with no cloud of doubt as to whether I look like a man or a woman. I know what will make me happy and what won't. If I cannot achieve my goal then I will know I gave it my best and I will check out and see whats next.

Maybe there is a heaven and hell, perhaps we just return to the earth and become dirt. I honestly feel people make too big of an issue out of suicide. I'd like to think there is a better and happier place waiting for us on the other side. Sometimes dead is better.
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Kate

Quote from: Jessica on November 06, 2006, 11:58:22 AM
Bob, consider this, that in some cases, to that person, life will never be worth living.  Of course, your life is worth living to you, or you wouldn't be here.  But, it is impossible to understand someone else from that persons point of view.  You can imagine how you would feel in their situation, but it's not possible to truely understand exactly how they feel.

Exactly. It's often an equally impulsive, "knee-jerk" reaction for people to automatically apply the politically-correct, feel-good "life is always better than death" speech in all circumstances.

Some situations are simply unsolvable. There's just no way out. Sometimes all choices, all paths lead to pain that'd simply be impossible to bear, or hurt that someone isn't willing to inflict upon those they love.
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