9/11

[Genevieve Swann]

I am mostly upset with the U.S. government for allowing it to happen. I feel bad about the loss of life. Many warning signs were there and the FBI and CIA knew something was up but didn't know what. They screwed up, period.

[Mister]

And the thousands killed to bring those responsible to justices.
Janet

When did this happen exactly?

[Janet_Girl]

When did this happen exactly?

In a little place called Afghanistan.  They are called soldiers.  And the civilians that died at the hands of the Taliban.

Janet

[heatherrose]

The Taliban were no more than hired guns in the small part that they played.
Their employers have yet to taste the first bit of retribution or "justice".

.

[tekla]

Yeah, I'm having a hard time thinking anyone was 'brought to justice' for this.  Quite the opposite as a matter of fact.

[KYLYKaHYT]

I'm sure 9/11 would be much more upsetting to me had I personally lost someone that day, but thankfully it didn't hit that close to home for me.

It is, however, a day that makes me sad primarily because I immediately knew it would change everything ... and precipitate yet more death and killing. Here in America it became the catalyst for a hot, ugly air of nationalistic fervor. It fanned the underlying flames of racism and hatred and xenophobia into the open and compelled many to fight religious fanaticism with religious fanaticism. It divided us.

[tekla]

I'm not sure it changed anything, for damn sure it didn't 'change everything' as its advocates wanted everyone to think - it just hurried up something that had been on-going since the sixties.

[Nathan.]

I'm indifferent to it. But it still doesn't set well with me. It was a tragedy

Me too.

[Mister]

In a little place called Afghanistan.  They are called soldiers.  And the civilians that died at the hands of the Taliban.

Janet

I'm well aware of the number of soldiers and civilians that have died in Afghanistan, i was wondering when the whole 'people brought to justice' thing happened.

[V M]

That's the thing, there is and never will be any justice to any of it 

[heatherrose]

The futility of any hope that the perpetrators of this grand scheme
will be brought to justice is exasperating. *SIGH* The only ones who
can bring them down is themselves. Especially, when everyone knows
what a "Tinfoil Hat" is for and that only the nut jobs use them.

^{Anyone wanna buy a tin foil union suit?}

[StephenL]

tekla, How is the Saudi Royal family responsible for the unprovoked attacks onThe United States of America which occured on September 11, 2001?
Post Merge: September 14, 2009, 05:11:14 AM
Last month my girlfriend, Amber, and I visited NYC. We saw the construction site where the WTC north and south towers and the Marriott Hotel once stood.  Across Liberty St adjacent to FDNY Station 10, which lost 6 of its firefighters on Sept. 11, 2001, is the WTC Visitors Center.  The Visitors Center is where one can go to be reminded what occured when we, America, was attacked that day. An unprovoked attack by a few radical Islamic extremists.  They took it upon themselves for whatever reason(s) to start this war. Only God knows what they were thinking. If someone wants to hate America, I have no problem. If someone wants to speak out againts or protest Americas policies, I have no problem. If someone wants to legally immigrate to America and become an American citizen and work through the proper channels; political, judical, etc., to change America, I have no problem.
However, if anyone even wants to think/plan or try to influence others to attack innocent men, women and children of America and innocent men, women and children of foreign countries who are visiting America, then they have a problem. We the people of America will not allow an attack to occur without reprecussion.  I require and fully support our governments response to seek out whom ever was responsibal for the idea, planning, training, aide, assistance or provided harboring of anyone involved. September 11, 2001 was not a tradegy, it was the day that we the citizens of America and our friends and visitors were attacked. I do not agree with all of the actions taken by our government, the invasion of Iraq and the loss of innocents civilian lives but I
am satisfied that Saddam Hussein, his sons and their government and military as also the Taliban was removed.  Our current government, with the same political pary controlling the White House, the Senate and the House of Represenatives, now has the responsibility of managing the war on terrorism. A war not against a country, not against a government but a war against terrorists who want us dead. Our current government and its leaders are now responsible for the protection of all citizens of America. Soon it will of been one year since we changed our government. If our government does not remove all of our military men and women from the war zones then they had better allow and fully support the military in its effort to end this war with total victory by defeat or surrender of all the terrorists forces. And then prepare to defend America once again. Peace & Love, Stephen.

[heatherrose]

And then prepare to defend America once again.

...against enemies foreign and domestic

Does anybody else remember, on national television,
within a few hours after the collapses "they" announced "they"
had discovered the wallets of the "hijackers" laying atop
the rubble and had been able to identify the "hijackers"
involved in the rest of the "attacks", plastering
their names and pictures across the screen? 

[Hannah]

tekla, How is the Saudi Royal family responsible for the unprovoked attacks onThe United States of America

If you really, really, really want to understand this issue, and are willing to look at it objectively, listen to Osama Bin Laden's speeches. He explains clearly and exactly why they have done the things they have done. There is a lot, and I mean a LOT of propaganda entwined into both him and his movement by the Bushies. I'm not saying they are nice people by any means, but they do have some valid points.

[finewine]

If you really, really, really want to understand this issue, and are willing to look at it objectively, listen to Osama Bin Laden's speeches. He explains clearly and exactly why they have done the things they have done. There is a lot, and I mean a LOT of propaganda entwined into both him and his movement by the Bushies. I'm not saying they are nice people by any means, but they do have some valid points.

I'm glad someone finally pointed this out!  Yes, your enemies may be entirely wrong but until you take the trouble to try and understand why they feel the way they do, there's not a whole lot you can do to tackle it.  The 9/11 attacks were horrific and unjustified but that's not the same thing as unprovoked...not in their minds, anyway.

Know your enemy.

[StephenL]

Becca, I am sorry I missed the speech by Mr. Laden where he explained how his god has given him the right to send others to kill inocent men, women & children because he feels he has been done wronged by the United States of America. Please explaine it to me as if I am a ten year old because I just dont understand. If he has a complaint about how the government of the USA has done him wrong take it to the United Nations. Oh I forgot he is not a member of the UN, my bad.
Post Merge: September 14, 2009, 11:36:26 PM
finewine, excuse me? Mr. Laden is not a government, does not represent a government and does not deserve to be understood. He needs to be killed or captured and put into Leavenworth to explain to our American citizens who our confined for their crimes why he did what he did. If he can convince them that he has a right to order the killing of innocent Americans........ well I doubt he would have the oppurtunity.
Post Merge: September 15, 2009, 12:37:48 AM
tekla, I am still waiting for an answer.
Post Merge: September 15, 2009, 01:45:18 AM
Genevieve Swann, ? the US government allowed it to happen. What would you of liked the FBI and CIA to do? Wire taps perhaps, oh thats wrong we would be listening  to private conversations. We dont want Big Brother watching do we?

[Hannah]

I composed a fancy response but I highlighted it and hit backspace. I just had this discussion in four week form in a sociology class last term and I'm tired of it. You can listen or read Bin Laden through Al-Jazeera I believe. Nobody said he is right, just that he has some valid points...and I agree that someone who is bent on destroying civil rights and freedoms, tortures innocents, violates the 'rules of war', outright lies and makes up pretenses to justify his actions should never be listened to, hunted down and brought up on war crimes charges.

Here he is, for your deck of playing cards. Hand them out to the troops:



Oh I saw your'e poking Finewine and Tekla too 
*goes to make popcorn*

[heatherrose]

...and I'm tired of it.

This.

[finewine]

finewine, excuse me? Mr. Laden is not a government, does not represent a government and does not deserve to be understood. He needs to be killed or captured and put into Leavenworth to explain to our American citizens who our confined for their crimes why he did what he did. If he can convince them that he has a right to order the killing of innocent Americans........ well I doubt he would have the oppurtunity.

Passionately put but none of this contradicts my point, which is that one cannot make progress against ones enemies if you don't understand them.  Bin Laden is just one figurehead of a much larger problem.  Killing him won't change anything, it won't even act as a deterrent to a fundamentalist mentality that would see his execution as a martyrdom.  Of course, he should be punished for his crimes but your fixation on bloody retribution is part of the problem, not the solution.

[jennifer jane]

so mny died! For what?
jj