HRT with breast growth control

[tonia]

Hello,
I'm on androcur for about 3 months and I'm going to start E in about two weeks. I'm really excited that I found a doctor to help me and monitor my health. I want almost all the hormone effects but I want to minimize or at least control my breast growth for social reasons. I do not want them to look bigger than a male gynecomastia. I still live with my parents, have a good job, and I'm afraid that I'm gonna have problems if my breast is going to be enlarged to much.
I found that there are some drugs that sit on the estrogen receptors on breast only and prevent estrogen to get into those receptors. As a result the breast wont grow until the drugs are stopped. These drugs are used to minimize the breast cancer possibility and male gynecomastia. Does anyone know anything about this? I'm going to ask my doc anyway...

[findingreason]

Hmm do you know what they are exactly? It sounds a little fishy to me, I haven't really heard of such things like that before, but I could be wrong. I know that if it's just raw estrogen and an anti-androgen, it doesn't matter how small your dose, your breast development will happen according to your genetics, just the duration it takes may be the only thing that varies.

[tonia]

Hmm do you know what they are exactly? It sounds a little fishy to me, I haven't really heard of such things like that before, but I could be wrong. I know that if it's just raw estrogen and an anti-androgen, it doesn't matter how small your dose, your breast development will happen according to your genetics, just the duration it takes may be the only thing that varies.

These drugs are categorized like "estrogen receptor modulator". I found the info on wiki.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tamoxifen

I guess that there are people out there who want to start HRT because they have gender dysphoria etc, but also want to hide some very noticeable signs like breast in cases like at work and family.

[aubrey]

Hon it kind of sounds like you're not ready to get on HRT all of the way. Pretty soon ,yes, you will (for most ppl) start looking more noticably fem and if you're not ready for that then.... Your face is going to change too and there's no special pill to block that. Just remember that whatever it is you're scared of probably isn't going to be nearly as bad as you imagine. If you really must...sports bras do wonders for probably months if not a year into when the breasts are growing, for many folks. After that is binding but that's kind of rediculous.

[tonia]

Hon it kind of sounds like you're not ready to get on HRT all of the way. Pretty soon ,yes, you will (for most ppl) start looking more noticably fem and if you're not ready for that then.... Your face is going to change too and there's no special pill to block that. Just remember that whatever it is you're scared of probably isn't going to be nearly as bad as you imagine. If you really must...sports bras do wonders for probably months if not a year into when the breasts are growing, for many folks. After that is binding but that's kind of rediculous.

I know what you are saying...I really want all those changes, I want to look less masculine and more feminine, but I guess that breasts will tell exactly what I'm doing. I do not think that my face will change so much, although I want to, in a way everyone will understand that I'm on HRT.
I just told my endocrinologist that I want some feminization but I also want to control it like passing to a maintenance dosage, no further feminization.

[The None Blonde]

Honey, breasts or no breasts, you'll likely start looking more female than male before people think you have breasts.

The growth isnt that fast or obvious, and if it becomes an issue, as it did for me for about a month before i went full time, wear a sports bra, or ace bandage to just lightly compress them and reduce the apearance till you can?

[Steph]

I know what you are saying...I really want all those changes, I want to look less masculine and more feminine, but I guess that breasts will tell exactly what I'm doing. I do not think that my face will change so much, although I want to, in a way everyone will understand that I'm on HRT.
I just told my endocrinologist that I want some feminization but I also want to control it like passing to a maintenance dosage, no further feminization.

There is no real way to predict breast growth, some experience marked breast growth while others do not.  Generally speaking it is thought that the older one transitions the less breast growth experienced.  However, having said that, as was mentioned earlier it does seem that you are not ready to start HRT.  Personally I feel that HRT should only be started with the recommendation of a therapist who has diagnosed the patient with GID, and then only started when the patient is ready or close to starting their RLT.  But then that's just my opinion.

Why would you want to start HRT if you are not ready to accept the changes.  Granted there are some who state that once they started HRT they experienced a sense of well being, a sense of euphoria but many also state that these feelings are psychosomatic.  The purpose of HRT is to change the body and if you are not ready to accept all the changes then you are not ready to transition.

-={LR}=-

-={LR}=-

[kae m]

I know what you are saying...I really want all those changes, I want to look less masculine and more feminine, but I guess that breasts will tell exactly what I'm doing. I do not think that my face will change so much, although I want to, in a way everyone will understand that I'm on HRT.
I just told my endocrinologist that I want some feminization but I also want to control it like passing to a maintenance dosage, no further feminization.

You would be surprised how many gradual changes people will miss (up to a point), especially if they see you nearly every day.  I would definitely add another "caution" if you feel you are ready to start changing your body chemistry, but not for people to notice the physical changes.  I wear a sports bra most days or a cami under my (male) work clothes so that my body is more uniformly shaped and the changes will be more subtle to people at work.  Since I plan on coming out at work last, and only just before going full-time, I don't need people to comment too soon - they already know something is up, but it would be rude to ask out-right what is going on with me.

Your experience may vary, but taking hormones didn't alleviate my dysphoria, it made me feel good in a "yay, progress!" kind of way, but it's just making it somewhat more likely I will be seen as female...which is what does help with the dysphoria.

[The None Blonde]

Quite correct MGKelly...

For me, the biggest thing hormones did, was physical: They rock frankly.
Mentally most things were psycosomatic... a calming, i felt less stressed... mostly due to progress. Hrt's only real effects mentally are an emotional broadening. It wont CHANGE your emotions, it wont make you cry randomly, but what it will do, is make every emotion you feel, more colourful. If you're sad... you'll cry, if you;re happy, you'll know it (clap your hands! (Sorry ><)) if you're angry, you'll boil.  It provides a certain emotional stability one you';re used to it, HRT will not turn you into a woman mentally, just give you the tools for her to work properly with.

[sweetstars]

There is no real way to predict breast growth, some experience marked breast growth while others do not.  Generally speaking it is thought that the older one transitions the less breast growth experienced.  However, having said that, as was mentioned earlier it does seem that you are not ready to start HRT.  Personally I feel that HRT should only be started with the recommendation of a therapist who has diagnosed the patient with GID, and then only started when the patient is ready or close to starting their RLT.  But then that's just my opinion.

Why would you want to start HRT if you are not ready to accept the changes.  Granted there are some who state that once they started HRT they experienced a sense of well being, a sense of euphoria but many also state that these feelings are psychosomatic.  The purpose of HRT is to change the body and if you are not ready to accept all the changes then you are not ready to transition.

-={LR}=-

-={LR}=-

Honestly speaking the therapist requirement for HRT is a bit rediculas.  The US is moving towards an informed consent model, and honestly speaking younger trans folks, are better off because of this.  They don't have to deal with the absurdly high cost of therapy, or the GID diagnosis (which is rediculas in the first place).  Honestly speaking the fewer therapists involved in the process the better.  The entire SOC gatekeeper system was poor at best and scared more people away than encouraging them to transition early, which is what many people should have done in the first place.  Informed consent is alot better model to follow for HRT, and one that does not involve a therapist.   

[Suzy]

I really do not think you are ready of you can't accept all of the consequences of HRT.  But this is a judgment only a qualified therapist can make.  The reason many people take them are precisely the reason you state against them.  But yes, it will definitely affect you in other ways as well.  Make sure you talk this out VERY WELL with your counselor.

Kristi

[The None Blonde]

Informed consent is a bad idea in a way.... people arent 'scared' by therapists, people are scared by the whineing of some trans people that the system felt were unsuitable, or plain not trans.

If you are trans, they will give you hrt with therapy, its pretty cut and thrust. Therapy is SO required with transition and hrt, its the most vital part. If someone wants some of hrt's effects, but not all, then the therapist is even more vital as the person needs to talk about why and what this is for and about.  Informed consent access to hrt and srs, (its a possible second) will only increase the number of regrets and detransitions that occur... It will NOT help our cause.

[Steph]

Honestly speaking the therapist requirement for HRT is a bit rediculas.  The US is moving towards an informed consent model, and honestly speaking younger trans folks, are better off because of this.  They don't have to deal with the absurdly high cost of therapy, or the GID diagnosis (which is rediculas in the first place).  Honestly speaking the fewer therapists involved in the process the better.  The entire SOC gatekeeper system was poor at best and scared more people away than encouraging them to transition early, which is what many people should have done in the first place.  Informed consent is alot better model to follow for HRT, and one that does not involve a therapist.

One should remember that the recommendations/guidelines (As that's all they are.) outlined in the SOC are there for the protection of the patients and the medical practitioners who are or maybe involved in the process.  I know that many of us who have traveled this road thought that they are/were in the best position to diagnose themselves and recommend their own course of treatment, however the SOC are there as confirmation of this.  Wouldn't anyone want to know why they feel the way they do?  Could there be something else causing these feelings etc.  It boggles the mind why folks are so scared of the system.  I agree there have been cases where the medical system has thrown up hurdles to some but I would have to think that for the most part that that those of us who have transitioned, did so through the present system.

If you are trans, they will give you hrt with therapy, its pretty cut and thrust.

- yep... pretty much.

-={LR}=-

[Miss LXC 2.0]

It is truly a "Pandora's Box" scenario. It is either open (you procede with hormonal changes) or it is closed (you do Not procede). That is one of the big things I accepted by going to a therapist.
As for breast growth, I started transitioning socially at work long before chemicals started showing outward signs.
I know a couple of biographies are about these people who had a great career and family for 20 years, and thus had More financial stability to transition. Not every life is like those stories.

Proceding with your life does mean consequences-good, bad, indifferent.
Are you ready for those?

[Steph]

...
It's not our place to question your readiness for hrt. Breasts are one of the best parts of it though, and they aren't that hard to hide if you were to want to. You aren't going to grow a pair of dd cups in your first few months, so really your worries are unfounded. I moved into a B recently, after 8 months, and the difference between a sports bra and regular bra is marked. The regular bra makes them look clearly boobish, while the sports bras have been retired because they subdue them more (they're designed to). Operating on the assumption that you ARE ready, and that this question is based more on fear of the unknown, if anything it sounds like a good motivator to stay on track. You know in advance you have a year-ish before the boobs are unhidable, so it could serve as motivation to begin socially transitioning and move toward full time because once you start you will definitely not want to stop.

...

I'm going to disagree with a lot of this as it seems to be putting the cart before the horse so to speak.  Growing breasts should not be the motivator behind transition in fact a lot of women have little or no breast growth, and likewise wanting to grow breasts should not be a motivator either.  While the person may be ready, how about the persons workplace, are they ready? does management know what their employee is intending?  While hiding breast may be easy, one has to remember that hiding the bra, whatever type has to be considered as well.  A man with obvious signs that they are wearing female underwear will cause more trouble than it's worth.

Transition should be planned ahead of time and there is lots of literature on this site to help in that regard.  Growing breasts does not make one a woman, and is "One" of the issues a person who is going to transition needs to consider.  It's for this very reason that many pshrinks propose RLT before HRT.

-={LR}=-

[Nero]

I'm going to have to agree with Ladyrider here. Not to be a wet blanket, but if you haven't even told your parents whom you live with and who will notice breasts or no, you really don't sound ready for HRT. HRT is a serious responsibility and personal commitment.

I'm going to disagree with a lot of this as it seems to be putting the cart before the horse so to speak.  Growing breasts should not be the motivator behind transition in fact a lot of women have little or no breast growth, and likewise wanting to grow breasts should not be a motivator either.  While the person may be ready, how about the persons workplace, are they ready? does management know what their employee is intending?  While hiding breast may be easy, one has to remember that hiding the bra, whatever type has to be considered as well.  A man with obvious signs that they are wearing female underwear will cause more trouble than it's worth.

Transition should be planned ahead of time and there is lots of literature on this site to help in that regard.  Growing breasts does not make one a woman, and is "One" of the issues a person who is going to transition needs to consider.  It's for this very reason that many pshrinks propose RLT before HRT.

-={LR}=-

[ctine12t]

Hello,
I'm on androcur for about 3 months and I'm going to start E in about two weeks. I'm really excited that I found a doctor to help me and monitor my health. I want almost all the hormone effects but I want to minimize or at least control my breast growth for social reasons. I do not want them to look bigger than a male gynecomastia. I still live with my parents, have a good job, and I'm afraid that I'm gonna have problems if my breast is going to be enlarged to much.
I found that there are some drugs that sit on the estrogen receptors on breast only and prevent estrogen to get into those receptors. As a result the breast wont grow until the drugs are stopped. These drugs are used to minimize the breast cancer possibility and male gynecomastia. Does anyone know anything about this? I'm going to ask my doc anyway...

I have the same desires.  Hope we can  find something

[The None Blonde]

To be honest, breast growth is only ONE visible effect of hrt.

To be honest, I had many people comment when I was on hrt, and most comments were not breast related...

'Does your face look different?'
'Are your shoulders narrower? (Muscle)'
'You have a really girly bum'
'Wow, your skin is so soft'


I had pretty much top to toe visible change within a year on hrt, by 6 months, i went from androgynous, to female, with difficulty to pass as male.

At a young enough age, hrt really does change a LOT.... controling breast growth will only not help that much, but if you do, you'll be disapointed by being flat chested later on.

[tonia]

To be honest, breast growth is only ONE visible effect of hrt.

To be honest, I had many people comment when I was on hrt, and most comments were not breast related...

'Does your face look different?'
'Are your shoulders narrower? (Muscle)'
'You have a really girly bum'
'Wow, your skin is so soft'


I had pretty much top to toe visible change within a year on hrt, by 6 months, i went from androgynous, to female, with difficulty to pass as male.

At a young enough age, hrt really does change a LOT.... controling breast growth will only not help that much, but if you do, you'll be disapointed by being flat chested later on.

I would love to see those effects to me to, but I do not think that you are to going to look like another person anyway.
At what age did you start hrt? I'm 29 and I'm taking androcur for about 3 months, I reached castration Testosterone levels now and I'm going to start estrogen patches in a few days. My skin did change a lot, it was oily with big pores and now has turned to normal/dry with tiny pores. Some people who knew I had oily and problematic skin, notice the difference and comment it with complements.
I heard from others that if you are on hrt and still on "male" mode (you know, no make up, casual clothes etc) people think that you just look much younger because your face skin has changed...
I think that If I were a woman I would still like to have small breast anyway.
Since breast growth is commonly the first sign of hrt, do you think that breast growth shows how much feminine your whole body would be? I mean that If your breast development is not satisfactory would this mean that the whole transition like hips, face, fat distribution wont be satisfactory?
Oh, I'm sorry for my English....

[The None Blonde]

I started hrt just after my 19th birthday. With regards to the apearance thing... For me, Even with jeans and hoodies, and no makeup, i still looked female after around 6 months... the changes were quite profound and welcomed, though at first, within like 2 months or so, i did look a lot younger lol, like a 16yo boy, then androgynous at 3-4, then female by 6. It wasnt as much the breast growth, but my manerisms coupled with the slim less muscluar frame, facial apearance and hair, hrt did quite a bit to my face... the skin too was nice, but im not sure if it helped as much more than just being really nice now.
I think the first sign of hrt, is possibly muscle loss, and skin before breast GROWTH, first sign is imo nipple change.
The rest; Well, breast growth isnt linked to the others really. Some people will just come out with small breasts... i've seen other girls with broad flaring hips and tiny boobs... its just genetics... then theres my best friend, 30DD with skinny hips... everyone's different. With M2fs, i guess it may have a vague link... age, hrt receptiveness and genetics, but honestly? i'm not 100%