Going back after being in transition for quite a while (some questions/thoughts)

[oceanus]

Hi I'm new here.

Hope my post isn't out of place. I'm wondering about those who have decided to go back to your birth gender after living on the extremes of the other side for a while. I did the whole thing pretty young in my teens and now I'm in my late twenties postop and all. I'm starting to reconsider things since I think I've grown a lot mentally the past few years and I'm now appreciating things in a different light. Some people might say its detransition and all but I've decided not to approach things from that angle since I consider it some form of personal evolution rather than a step backwards. I simply think now that I probably identify more as a gay man and that being that way might suit me better. I used to be attracted solely to straight men (or at least men who considered themselves straight) but now I'm beginning to appreciate guys of all types.

So lately, I stuffed my hair into a baseball cap and dressed in my boyfriend's clothes and the only thing I could think of was that I looked like a really really young, short, underweight teenaged guy and it disturbed me a little.

It could be due to the fact that his clothes were a little too baggy so it made me look odd, I felt like 14 or 15 years old then I felt sad that I looked like a joke as a guy. I'm wondering if any of you have felt the same way?

As far as I know, I'm not exactly sure how this would pan out appearance wise. I think I've more or less figured out the mental part. I guess my concerns mainly tie in with the fact that people may view such a route as totally ludicrous. I've confided in my boyfriend and he thinks I'm being silly and all and says that I look beautiful as a girl but I'd look like a freak as a guy and he's made it clear that if I ever went that way our relationship would be over. That's one of the major factors holding me back as well. I've confided with some close friends, basically a mix of girlfriends/gay friends and even trans friends about this and so far, almost all of them are quite negative about it.

My first step would probably involve removing my implants and then seeing how I adjust to that and then slowly taking things from there. Just to add I think I'd be more comfortable looking older (maybe looking like an 18-21 year old) and more masculine but not overly masculine so I'm not entirely comfortable of having facial hair and zits that you'd get from T shots. I don't know how much T would affect me as well since I messed up my puberty somewhat with a combination of estrogen and anorexia so thats one of the last steps I'd take if I embrace this route in totality.

So I'm wondering if anyone has been in my shoes and I'd love to hear your thoughts or experiences.

[Just Kate]

I didn't get post op, but I've been where you are.  It's tough.  I felt the same negativity.  My gay friends thought that if I went back, I would not be being "true to myself" and was akin to going back into the closet to them.  When I even *mentioned* the possibility of detransition to the other TS's I knew, I got hit with so much negative feedback I felt really put out.  I didn't realize that, at the time, many of those people were validating their own transitions off of the success of mine, and if I were to "go back" it might mean they could - at least in their heads - and that wasn't something they wanted to think about.

Its late and I'm tired or I'd say more, but let me say, you aren't the first, but there are not many of us.  You'll have to find new ways to deal with whatever degree of GID you have if you close the door to transition.  I can imagine though, were I in your situation (post op with a boyfriend) that I'd prolly remain female out of convenience.  It would be very hard to land a relationship with another gay male as a male with a vagina so you might be setting out for misery with regard to your love life.

It comes down to preference.  I assume you transitioned initially for the sake of convenience right?  (by convenience I mean, because life would be better, easier, more worthwhile, whatever word you use, etc. than living it as a male)

[oceanus]

....I can imagine though, were I in your situation (post op with a boyfriend) that I'd prolly remain female out of convenience.  It would be very hard to land a relationship with another gay male as a male with a vagina so you might be setting out for misery with regard to your love life.

It comes down to preference.  I assume you transitioned initially for the sake of convenience right?  (by convenience I mean, because life would be better, easier, more worthwhile, whatever word you use, etc. than living it as a male)

Yeah, I'm delaying it so far since I'm in love with him and that's a major factor preventing me from doing anything. I also want to be sure any steps I make are reversible as well like implant removal as compared to total boob removal in case things change in future.

The factor that however makes me tempted to make the leap is due to the fact I sometimes get the sense that he doesn't see a future with me and its been a very familiar feeling I'm getting from most of the guys I've been with. I feel very guilty each time I talk about marriage where I end up totally feeling like I'm pressurizing him in some way that maybe the problem isn't with him but its with me being overly needy. Its almost like I gave up on the idea of being with him for life but I'm still clinging on to him?

And yes also I'm terribly afraid of ending up lonely but as much as being a guy with a vadge scares me I think some FTMs seem to do okay despite the hurdles of bottom surgery? I admit I don't pass very well as a guy my age or even a young guy. I look like I barely had puberty so I'd have to work alot on looking passable yet I'm reluctant to go on T at this point of time since I don't want my system to be shocked where I'd freak out if my voice breaks or if I had acne and start to bald like my brother.

Lastly, I would really really hate and loathe that I transitioned for convenience since it really trivializes the seriousness of transition as a whole, but then again if I were to break it down into the little steps I took along the way I realize you could be right to a certain degree. I mean it doesn't seem entirely that way but I wouldn't say you're wrong as well. God you have no idea how difficult it is to admit that (makes me feel demented for going through this) and its even harder to unravel the whole thing now if I were to treat it as a whole.

I'm actually not sure if I have ever had GID in the first place so I'm not sure what pitfalls to look out for. Maybe its hard now to notice since I haven't made steps back yet I don't know how to really verbalize it at all. Does it make sense if I were to say I like the attention I get as a girl but maybe now I'm less bothered about attention and I think I've transcended that need for superficial gratification and I'm actually somewhat weary of attention?

Thanks for replying really, I've read a number of your threads already and I was hoping you'd be one of those who'd reply.

Oh also, I'm thinking of uprooting and moving elsewhere and I don't know if that will help things out. How did it help you? It seems most people who have tread this route eventually had to do so to be successful otherwise there are too many ties that bind.

[gothique11]

I think it's ironic that when someone transitions everyone freaks out and goes OMG, you can't, that's wrong, etc... and then when someone either de-transitions or whatever one might call it, you get exactly the same thing: OMG, you can't, that's wrong. LMFAO!

I got that when I ran around and did a drag king show, and when I shaved my head except the front bangs, wear boy clothes, LOL. I don't know, I don't get it. Then again, I never de-transitioned or anything... clothes, hair, that's just me. I really didn't get the hoopla that I'd get from the trans community over such things. The OMG your hair isn't long, and the OMG, you're not wearing a skirt and those are boy clothes your wearing, OMG, you don't have make up on! *world ends x_x *

I think, sometimes people just need to focus on being themselves rather than being some ideal of what a woman or a man is or should look like or act. Sometimes I run into people who are searching to be something other than themselves, and I'm not sure if that should really be the goal. Transition, really, should be just about being who you are, whatever that is. Then, again, I'm a lot more liberal than other T-folk are with issues.

I'd say explore things. Take your time exploring things. Wear some boy clothes. Maybe even get a fake mustache and try it out for a while. It's always important to find you, where ever that leads you.

I don't even always like the word transition, 'cause really transition implies your changing into something else, but really you're supposed to becoming yourself... not someone else. Then, again, I never got the part when t-folk talk about themselves, or rather, old selves in 3rd person... like it's a different person. John was, kate was, and then even more confusing, with some of the... I guess famous, or ones I see on tv who have "de-transitioned" (a term that doesn't even make sense to me, but transitioned doesn't either) will talk about their old self, say John, and then their woman self, say Kate, and then their newer self, say Joe. Kinda sounds like a case of multiple personalities to me, in a weird way. Well, then again, I guess it's natural for one to want to form a dissociation with a perceived past-self or identity. *shrugs* I don't know, to each his or her own, I guess... I guess I failed T-101 class. LOL

Anyway, sorry for that ramble -- I'd say totally explore. Be who you are. Be yourself -- and the only way you can do that is explore a little.

[Autumn]

I just wonder how you did all of that so young. Even with parental support most people don't end up taking estrogen during their puberty. Your family must have been wealthy and supportive.

Marriage isn't something to be pressured or forced into. And if you really are just staying with him and realize there's no future, well, that's another problem entirely. You can't live your life for other people... that's the whole reason we 'transition' in the first place. For us.

It sounds like you may be one of those poor souls who shouldn't have. *shrug*

Sometimes I think 'Why bother with any of this crap? It's so easy to deal now.' But that's because I do usually pass. As a woman, not as a man. I don't live like a man, or act like a man. Being in the middle sucks. Every person I meet in the middle is someone confused by me, or a potential person who I could have 'passed' with. First impressions are everything. I don't have to dress much like a man, and I don't have to do guy things. Instead of having muscle (not that I had much, but I kept from exercising to keep it off), I've got rapidly developing breasts and soft skin.

If those things were different, I don't think I'd handle it well. So while I feel good where I'm at, other than being in the middle, and life seems so easy to tackle, my current perspective is BECAUSE i'm in transition. Yes, I do envy how easy life would have been without this, or even could still be. How much nicer it would be to be a lot stronger, and not as cold, and less socially afraid, and less maintenance on my hair and appearance... but I'm pretty sure I'd be dead inside again.

Having your implants out sounds like a pretty major thing to do and costly. Honestly, considering that reversible is starting to get into the level of 'you don't know what the f' you want'. Which isn't surprising if you transitioned that young. I'm surprised you needed implants. *shrug*

I don't envy your position. I don't consider de-transitioners to be abominations or a threat to the cause or anything, but it sounds clearly like you may have been pushed along by family or professionals faster than you should have been.

[Just Kate]

Yeah, I'm delaying it so far since I'm in love with him and that's a major factor preventing me from doing anything. I also want to be sure any steps I make are reversible as well like implant removal as compared to total boob removal in case things change in future.

The factor that however makes me tempted to make the leap is due to the fact I sometimes get the sense that he doesn't see a future with me and its been a very familiar feeling I'm getting from most of the guys I've been with. I feel very guilty each time I talk about marriage where I end up totally feeling like I'm pressurizing him in some way that maybe the problem isn't with him but its with me being overly needy. Its almost like I gave up on the idea of being with him for life but I'm still clinging on to him?

One of the reasons I de-transitioned had a lot to do with my potential marriage prospects, so it isn't strange you'd be concerned with it.  The type of guy I'd hoped to end up with (conservative like myself) would have a VERY difficult time accepting me as thoroughly female, and of course raising children would have been a bear if I were to attempt to raise them with my particular set of morals and in my church.  These thoughts about the future kept me awake at night and turned what was otherwise a successful transition into a potential future failure.

Lastly, I would really really hate and loathe that I transitioned for convenience since it really trivializes the seriousness of transition as a whole, but then again if I were to break it down into the little steps I took along the way I realize you could be right to a certain degree. I mean it doesn't seem entirely that way but I wouldn't say you're wrong as well. God you have no idea how difficult it is to admit that (makes me feel demented for going through this) and its even harder to unravel the whole thing now if I were to treat it as a whole.

I'm actually not sure if I have ever had GID in the first place so I'm not sure what pitfalls to look out for. Maybe its hard now to notice since I haven't made steps back yet I don't know how to really verbalize it at all. Does it make sense if I were to say I like the attention I get as a girl but maybe now I'm less bothered about attention and I think I've transcended that need for superficial gratification and I'm actually somewhat weary of attention?

Everyone transitions for a reason and none of them are meaningless.  Most of us have some sort of GID - a disconnect between our birth sex and our internal sense of our gender.  Regardless of the source of the GID (biological or a social disconnect) it seems to affect us similarly.  So when we transition it is to make our lives better!  You believed it would so strongly you took that step - don't feel like you diminish the attempts of others or are less "real."

I realize some say they transition because they really ARE what they are becoming while others of us say, we recognize we'd be happier as the other sex.  There is a lot of pressure from certain parts of the community, like the HBS crowd, that in order to transition you MUST be absolutely sure you ARE the sex you are transitioning to.  I can respect that, but its a bit too black and white for me and seems to resonate the same rigid two dimensional gender system that the rest of the world buys into that ultimately is the source of a lot of our stress anyhow.  For me, I don't know that I ever "knew" I was a girl, but it wouldn't have surprised me if I was - there was/is a definitely disconnect between me and "male".

All that said, you have to make the best decision for you and your future.  You've made some choices, some are irreversible, so when making a choice as to how to live your life, those will need to be taken into consideration of course.  Regret can be healthy if warranted, but in the end, we have to make the best with whatever we have.  Look at your situation, and weight it out.  How will YOU be happiest?  Forget all the stigmas about being "real" "fake" "a de-transitioner" a "gay male" etc. and just make the decision that you believe will most likely result in your long term happiness.  Remember you will have challenges regardless of what path you choose and there will be times you'll wonder if you are doing the right thing, but knowing that, all you can go off is how you feel now.

Good luck to you, I hope to hear more from you.

Thanks for replying really, I've read a number of your threads already and I was hoping you'd be one of those who'd reply.

Oh and thanks!

[oceanus]

I think it's ironic that when someone transitions everyone freaks out and goes OMG, you can't, that's wrong, etc... and then when someone either de-transitions or whatever one might call it, you get exactly the same thing: OMG, you can't, that's wrong. LMFAO!

I got that when I ran around and did a drag king show, and when I shaved my head except the front bangs, wear boy clothes, LOL. I don't know, I don't get it. Then again, I never de-transitioned or anything... clothes, hair, that's just me. I really didn't get the hoopla that I'd get from the trans community over such things. The OMG your hair isn't long, and the OMG, you're not wearing a skirt and those are boy clothes your wearing, OMG, you don't have make up on! *world ends x_x *

I think, sometimes people just need to focus on being themselves rather than being some ideal of what a woman or a man is or should look like or act. Sometimes I run into people who are searching to be something other than themselves, and I'm not sure if that should really be the goal. Transition, really, should be just about being who you are, whatever that is. Then, again, I'm a lot more liberal than other T-folk are with issues.

I'd say explore things. Take your time exploring things. Wear some boy clothes. Maybe even get a fake mustache and try it out for a while. It's always important to find you, where ever that leads you.

I don't even always like the word transition, 'cause really transition implies your changing into something else, but really you're supposed to becoming yourself... not someone else. Then, again, I never got the part when t-folk talk about themselves, or rather, old selves in 3rd person... like it's a different person. John was, kate was, and then even more confusing, with some of the... I guess famous, or ones I see on tv who have "de-transitioned" (a term that doesn't even make sense to me, but transitioned doesn't either) will talk about their old self, say John, and then their woman self, say Kate, and then their newer self, say Joe. Kinda sounds like a case of multiple personalities to me, in a weird way. Well, then again, I guess it's natural for one to want to form a dissociation with a perceived past-self or identity. *shrugs* I don't know, to each his or her own, I guess... I guess I failed T-101 class. LOL

Anyway, sorry for that ramble -- I'd say totally explore. Be who you are. Be yourself -- and the only way you can do that is explore a little.

You're awesome
Post Merge: December 03, 2009, 10:09:43 AM
I'll reply to the rest after my mind is clearer. Thanks alot for the replies.


Post Merge: December 09, 2009, 03:28:23 AM

Everyone transitions for a reason and none of them are meaningless.  Most of us have some sort of GID - a disconnect between our birth sex and our internal sense of our gender.  Regardless of the source of the GID (biological or a social disconnect) it seems to affect us similarly.  So when we transition it is to make our lives better!  You believed it would so strongly you took that step - don't feel like you diminish the attempts of others or are less "real."

I realize some say they transition because they really ARE what they are becoming while others of us say, we recognize we'd be happier as the other sex.  There is a lot of pressure from certain parts of the community, like the HBS crowd, that in order to transition you MUST be absolutely sure you ARE the sex you are transitioning to.  I can respect that, but its a bit too black and white for me and seems to resonate the same rigid two dimensional gender system that the rest of the world buys into that ultimately is the source of a lot of our stress anyhow.  For me, I don't know that I ever "knew" I was a girl, but it wouldn't have surprised me if I was - there was/is a definitely disconnect between me and "male".

I find the black and white aspect of it a little hard to grapple with as well.

I don't mean to dismiss GID but I sometimes question the attention or so called "comfort" I get from it.

Its the same way I question the comfort I receive from vodka – I haven't had it in a while.

I see the people at parties reveling in apparent happiness and freedom, inebriated with vodka cocktails – and I feel the temptation to join in. Yet I regret having it if I eventually indulge. I always think of Damien Hirst's "The physical impossibility of death in the mind of the living". Yes... the impossibility of vodka in the mind of pre-vodka and post-vodka. Conscious effort is required on my part to avoid the sudden mental seduction to head down to 7-11 to grab a little bottle of absolut and yes, I am not going to get that bottle of vodka - all that silly running and exertion just to get satiated with just one tiny bottle. There never seems to be middle ground - and I could say as I am now with vodka, I am with everything.

I have to, because, its better not to start, for if I do it, I try to go as far as I can.

That is the scariest fear I can allude to my fears about GID, with regards to pursuing this whole thing.

[Mari]

Hi oceanus,
your story is very interesting. i have similar ideas but haven't gne that far in my transtion. I am interested particulary in what got you to think that way? Why do you want to go back, if it seems you are doing so well transition-wise?
And by the way how old are you, and how long have you been living as a girl?

[Renate]

Let's not forget that when you transition, you might get flak from the general public.
If you de-transition most of the flak you will get will be from the transgender community.
One reason is that it gives credence to the idea that all transsexuals are not truly committed to transition.

You may chalk up de-transition to a learning process.
I find it a most unfortunate way to learn something that you should have known before.
If you counter that with, "I was young, I've learned since then", it still prejudices the public against
the really young transitioners who are dead certain about transitioning and who never de-transition later in life.

The (unrealistic) goal of the gate-keeping process is to have zero regret/de-transition.
Even one case is sufficient to goad the forces-that-be to make requirements more stringent.

I'm sure that you could get lots of play in the public media if you wanted.
The public never seems to get enough of, "I had my penis chopped off and now I regret it."

[gqueering]

You may chalk up de-transition to a learning process.
I find it a most unfortunate way to learn something that you should have known before.
If you counter that with, "I was young, I've learned since then", it still prejudices the public against
the really young transitioners who are dead certain about transitioning and who never de-transition later in life.

I think that is so unfair! Transgenders don't cause people to be prejudice - prejudice will exist within the minds and attitudes of the ignorant regardless of how many people "de-transition" or whatever. It's unfair to lay a guilt trip on someone who is going through a difficult time by saying they "should" have known. People figure things out in their own time, in their own way, and it's no one else's business. We all have the right to change our minds and we all have the right to make mistakes - it's what makes us human.

[Just Kate]

... it still prejudices the public against
the really young transitioners who are dead certain about transitioning and who never de-transition later in life.

The majority of the people who de-transition are under 30 in my experience.  Imagine how many more would be detransitioning if those under 18 were allowed to transition without a strict gatekeeping process.  Its hard enough to regain your life after hormones and surgery now, imagine having to go through a second transition just to gain the secondary sex characteristics you never developed because you took hormones and had SRS before you got the chance to.

In the end people change, more especially before the age of 25.

[oceanus]

Hi oceanus,
your story is very interesting. i have similar ideas but haven't gne that far in my transtion. I am interested particulary in what got you to think that way? Why do you want to go back, if it seems you are doing so well transition-wise?
And by the way how old are you, and how long have you been living as a girl?

I'm a few years short of turning 30, and I've been on HRT since 16.

I posted some factors here for your question.

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,68864.40.html
Post Merge: December 11, 2009, 02:45:36 PM

Let's not forget that when you transition, you might get flak from the general public.
If you de-transition most of the flak you will get will be from the transgender community.
One reason is that it gives credence to the idea that all transsexuals are not truly committed to transition.

You may chalk up de-transition to a learning process.
I find it a most unfortunate way to learn something that you should have known before.
If you counter that with, "I was young, I've learned since then", it still prejudices the public against
the really young transitioners who are dead certain about transitioning and who never de-transition later in life.

The (unrealistic) goal of the gate-keeping process is to have zero regret/de-transition.
Even one case is sufficient to goad the forces-that-be to make requirements more stringent.

I'm sure that you could get lots of play in the public media if you wanted.
The public never seems to get enough of, "I had my penis chopped off and now I regret it."

Thanks for your thoughts. There's no cookie cutter experience pertaining to transition with so many factors involved. I would probably consider my experience to be akin to peeling off the layers in an onion. I don't pretend that I'd be an extremely passable man, since my voice didn't break, I didn't grow a beard and half my life has been socially female as weird as I felt as a guy, I feel weird too now as a female where I am still consciously aware that I'm different from my girlfriends.

Visiting one of my best friends who just gave birth - we grew up together since 11 and all along I felt somewhat one of the "girls", being welcomed and accepted and all - yet witnessing her and her baby was a very profound moment. It really galvanized the differences that I had with her, as stereotypical as it may sound.

I'm not seeking to turn back into some extreme state of masculinity as well, as impossible as it is because it is not what I'm really looking for. I look at my younger brother, who is tall, sporty and pretty damn straight, I know I'm not made the same way like him at all.

My state of life now is a little too distracting to convey any sense of authenticity and its something I need to tear myself away from.

I'm pretty media and publicity shy so setting off a media ruckus is a route a I wouldn't pursue.  Degrading the experiences of others is something I'd want to avoid at all costs.

[Zelane]

Taking the risk to sound stupid. But maybe you are having some sort of mid-life crisis?

[Renate]

Oceanus: My crack about going public was not an insult to you,
merely a comment on the prurient tastes of the public in general.

Much as most cisgender people will never be able to wrap their head around transition,
I will never really understand de-transition.
I do try to be sympathetic.

[oceanus]

Taking the risk to sound stupid. But maybe you are having some sort of mid-life crisis?

Probably. I don't know yet, this is the first time I'm approaching midlife =/

[K8]

For me, I had to figure out who I was as a person before I was willing to try to transition.  There are a lot of people on this forum who don't believe that is what they need.  I hope they are right. 

As we find out more about how the brain develops, we find that there are physical changes up through somewhere in the 20s.  The teenage brain as an organ is not fully developed.  I don't mean to say that a teenager doesn't know his or her mind; I am only pointing out that most people of that age have not fully matured.

Also, the literature I've read state that about 1 – 1.5% post-op transsexuals regret their transition.  The current "gate-keeping" system is an attempt to keep that number as low as possible, but people find ways around it and no system is perfect.  And 1% is still quite a few people.

Oceanus, it may be some kind of crisis of confidence in who you are.  We all go through those, trans and cis alike.  I hope you are getting help sorting things out.

- Kate

[Janet_Girl]

20 years worth of research and soul searching was enough.  Something about @h!T or get off the pot.  It was my time.  I am learning more and more about me now, than ever before.



Hugs and Love
Janet

[Shana A]

My question for you is... could it help if you identified and accepted yourself as a transsexual?

Kimberrrly,

We are a diverse community here at Susan's, not everyone identifies as transsexual.

Z