Susan's Place Logo

News:

According to Google Analytics 25,259,719 users made visits accounting for 140,758,117 Pageviews since December 2006

Main Menu

Abortion. Pro Life or Pro Choice TS Men and Woman only please.

Started by Jordan, December 12, 2009, 04:43:22 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Jordan

Just wanted to see what a few of you guys and gals thoughts about the subject.

thxs for your input.
  •  

Cindy

I was born in the UK, I have lived in Australia for the last 30 odd years. I'm a scientist pathologist. I have no religon.
Abortion is a womans's right. Not having an abortion is a woman's right. Any one trying to inflict their moral values on others is disgusting.

If a woman is raped she should be offered chemical and or surgical abortion ASAP. If she decides to carry the fetus all possesions of the rapist go to her. The rapist !!!!! just kill it. Hopefully painfully. Sorry my humanity gene doesn't work wll on rape.

Sorry off the mark again

Night all
Hugs

Cindy



  •  

LordKAT

rapists should be hung by genitals until dead

that being said, women who are raped (I figured incest to be rape) should be given a choice, beyond that, i don't think anyone has a right to kill a kid even before they are born. abortion should not be birth control.

Just adding, mother life versus kid life should also be a choice.

If you are pregnant outside of that, you made the choice to behave in a way that got you pregnant, now deal with the consequences
  •  

Kurzar

I'm pro choice only in that I feel women had the choice to use birth control or not...once they get pregnant killing the baby to me is not an option.  As for rape and incest cases to me..2 wrongs don't make a right, they don't have to keep it.  Now if the woman is facing death then yes I can see doing it to save her life.

At any rate this is my opinion...I know most don't feel the way I do.

  •  

Miniar

It's a complicated question.
I could say I'm both, the thing just is, I don't measure "life" in numbers. Neither as in "how many living things are there", nor in "how many hours of life".
Life, as I see it, isn't measurable in such a way.
Life isn't drawing breath or surviving, it's "living". It's dancing, it's kissing, it's doing things you love and grumbling through things you don't want to do.

It is Not, forcing a human being, against her will, to carry to term a child that she does not want, just to put that child into the adoption system and scar that "mother" for life, because not doing it is somehow religiously reprehensible.

I love my daughter, but if I could do it again, I wouldn't have kept her.
Pregnancy was torture for me, and I mean that in the truest sense of the word. It caused me extreme levels of physical discomfort, culminating in extreme levels of physical pain, and it ripped right through me on a psychological level as well. It was a horrible experience for me.
And at that time I didn't know just how "iffy" my body is.
It aggravated my loose joints and made my hips, knees, and lower-back far worse for wear.

I don't hold her accountable for MY choice to keep her and the effects there of, but that's just me. There are a Lot of people who can't seem to do that.
My partner for one has a father who projects all his frustrations on his family, and one of his biggest frustrations is the resentment towards the family for tying him down from a not so terribly young age.
I know Several people with similar/same problems between them and their parents.

The main reason why I'm the one who takes care of my daughter is knowing that if I didn't, then she would be in the hands of my ex's mother. He's got his issues, but she's a terrifying woman. I wouldn't trust her to take care of a plant, let alone a small human being. She's raised three highly dysfunctional people. An obese pathological liar. A codependent boy who can't keep a job, let alone take responsibility for when he looses it. And my ex, who has such a hard time accepting that he's got some control over his own life that he joined the AA, even if he doesn't drink!
To put an aspbergers child in her care would be cruel.
So I'm the best choice in the situation...

(winded reply is becoming winded and partially off topic)

The point I'm trying to make here is;
- Not all parents are capable of doing a decent job. Heck, many parents do a really poor one and inflict upon their children serious problems and scars for life.
- Not all birth-parents are able to give up their children into better homes. In many places the grandparents are able to legally interfere the adoption process (though the easiest way is just to pressure the birth-parents to comply) and thus, if the grandparents aren't "decent" people it means that in some situations, a good home isn't an available option.
- Pregnancy is a dangerous, highly physically stressful and draining process. For nine months, the child is like a parasite that feeds off the mother. And even if everything goes well, it causes permanent changes to the body and not just aesthetic ones. By examining just the pelvic bone, and nothing else, there are telltale signs that make it possible to see whether the owner of said bone has given birth. And I'm not even thinking of serious complications at all. It's serious and should Not, under Any circumstances, be Forced on Any human being!
- Birth is a violent, extremely painful, dangerous, physically stressful and draining process. Even if the pregnancy goes "perfect" it's not over until the post-birth-bleeding stops. Children have died giving birth, because they aren't allowed an abortion.

I am pro Life.
I believe that every living human being should have full rights to live as long as it doesn't interfere with the rights of other people to do so.
But this means I am pro Choice as well.
Because forcing a woman to carry to term and give birth to a child she doesn't want is imposing on her right to live, her right to dominion over her own body, and so on. It's cruel to the point of torturous to do that to a human being and no amount of "think of the baby" can justify that in my mind.
The growing child is in fact imposing on her right by it's mere presence, and thus her rights trump it's. It's self defense to end a pregnancy that causes the mother nothing but suffering, and it's compassionate to end a pregnancy that would otherwise place a child in a terrible situation.



"Everyone who has ever built anywhere a new heaven first found the power thereto in his own hell" - Nietzsche
  •  

Nero

Nero was the Forum Admin here at Susan's Place for several years up to the time of his death.
  •  

Lachlann

Pro choice, however, we should be preventing it from happening at the same time.
Don't be scared to fly alone, find a path that is your own
Love will open every door it's in your hands, the world is yours
Don't hold back and always know, all the answers will unfold
What are you waiting for, spread your wings and soar
  •  

Sandy

Quote from: CindyJames on December 12, 2009, 05:16:02 AM
The rapist !!!!! just kill it. Hopefully painfully. Sorry my humanity gene doesn't work wll on rape.

Sorry off the mark again

Night all
Hugs

Cindy
I would think that if they don't kill it they should castrate the thing.  Using a rusty pizza cutter and no anesthesia.  And allow the victim to watch, or even better allow them to do it.

slowly

-Sandy
Out of the darkness, into the light.
Following my bliss.
I am complete...
  •  

heatherrose



Quote from: Sandy on December 12, 2009, 07:00:27 AMUsing a rusty pizza cutter and no anesthesia. And allow the victim to watch, or even better allow them to do it.

Fasten it's [thing] to a workbench with a roofing nail,
stick a knife in it's foot and set the shop on fire.


Pro Life.
"I have always wanted to have a neighbor just like you,
I've always wanted to live in a neighborhood with you.

So let's make the most of this beautiful day,
Since we're together, we might as well say,
Would you be mine?
Could you be mine?
Won't you be my neighbor?" - Fred Rogers
  •  

The None Blonde

Well, I consider myself Pro Choice if one has to pick a camp. A woman has the right to control her own body, for whatever reason. I belive it's better to not allow a life to begin, that would be unloved or unwanted. Rape survivors are a key point... If i were raped, and fell pregnant, I don't think I could look at the child that was born from that encounter. I couldn't give them the love they deserve without the horror of that person's act coming back through them. There are times when pregnancies will be too far along to abort, and some children will lose thier parents from other means, but I don't belive there is good reason to increase the number of unwanted unloved children without families... the Care and Foster systems are bleak places... nobody deserves that.
Speaking from a awkwardly scientific point of view, abortion is probably a good thing today... Calous as this may sound, it curbs population growth, that is raging out of control. It would, if legalised globally, slow growth, curb food shortages, ballence things... heck, reduce our carbon footprint. I hate to think of it in those terms, it feels so impersonal to what is a very intimate debate... but it has merit sadly.
  •  

myles

pro choice as long as someone is not using it as means of birth control, as in has had 3 already.
"A life lived in fear is a life half lived"
  •  

Janet_Girl

Pro-Choice.  It should only be for rape, incest or when the Mother's life is in danger.  As a means of birth control, No.

Enough said.



Hugs and Love
Janet
  •  

Silver

Pro-choice. To echo others, the unloved unwanted foster children and children who are abused by their raped mothers really don't deserve that kind of treatment.

Of course, it would be unethical to use it as birth control. It makes people uncomfortable. But with giving women the power to decide when their bodies can be used to birth children, they also get the power to abuse it. And I think that the risk of that is worth the personal freedom.

I know that if I were raped and impregnated (however unlikely that may be) I wouldn't want to have a child. That would be horribly disturbing and disgusting. All so that the child could have a depressing life with no parents.
  •  

Hannah

It's not suprising that most of the people here are pro choice.

Now, how do we feel about harvesting the discarded fetal tissue to help the living? It's pretty clear that is the future, including possibly ours.
  •  

Kurzar

Quote from: Becca on December 12, 2009, 01:17:07 PM
It's not suprising that most of the people here are pro choice.

Now, how do we feel about harvesting the discarded fetal tissue to help the living? It's pretty clear that is the future, including possibly ours.

Sorry..no.  I'm not using anything from a murdered baby. I don't need that blood on my hands or karma
  •  

rejennyrated

I am pro choice. However I do wish that more women would be encouraged to consider the possibility of having the baby and letting someone who can't carry a pregnancy have the child that they so long for.

I definitely do not support bans on anything though. A ban is a very blunt tool to use and often ends up creating huge unintended injustices.

Havesting stem cells for anything but initial research (to find out how to make them) I feel less comfortable with, partly because I think that as we learn more about how to manipulate the human genome it may well become possible to make stem cells artificially from adult tissue.
  •  

Janet_Girl

They have begun to develop stem cells from adults.  Even from umbilical cord blood.  And once that begins the true stem cell research will bring forth wonders. 



Blessed Be
Janet
  •  

The None Blonde

Quote from: Kurzar on December 12, 2009, 02:57:18 PM
Sorry..no.  I'm not using anything from a murdered baby. I don't need that blood on my hands or karma
I don't think she meant using the cells for bars of soap or anything... Stem cell research is a vital area. Frankly, human morality climbed too high too fast. Look at the outrage at the German Pathologist whos name  I forget's live autopsies? That was done in the 1800s... though live was just... public. Medical science has cloistered itself hugely thanks to ignorant public outcry that its 'icky' or 'wrong', and we wonder why we stall. Sometimes a few eggs need to be broken to make an omlette. No, its not nice, or comfortable, but some things need to be done for the good of humanity... I belive that line of research is one.

  •  

Kurzar

Quote from: The None Blonde on December 12, 2009, 04:17:02 PM
I don't think she meant using the cells for bars of soap or anything... Stem cell research is a vital area. Frankly, human morality climbed too high too fast. Look at the outrage at the German Pathologist whos name  I forget's live autopsies? That was done in the 1800s... though live was just... public. Medical science has cloistered itself hugely thanks to ignorant public outcry that its 'icky' or 'wrong', and we wonder why we stall. Sometimes a few eggs need to be broken to make an omlette. No, its not nice, or comfortable, but some things need to be done for the good of humanity... I belive that line of research is one.

Maybe you can justify it..I can't, but to each their own.
  •  

Wolf Man

Quote from: Miniar on December 12, 2009, 06:07:13 AM
It's a complicated question.
I could say I'm both, the thing just is, I don't measure "life" in numbers. Neither as in "how many living things are there", nor in "how many hours of life".
Life, as I see it, isn't measurable in such a way.
Life isn't drawing breath or surviving, it's "living". It's dancing, it's kissing, it's doing things you love and grumbling through things you don't want to do.

It is Not, forcing a human being, against her will, to carry to term a child that she does not want, just to put that child into the adoption system and scar that "mother" for life, because not doing it is somehow religiously reprehensible.

I love my daughter, but if I could do it again, I wouldn't have kept her.
Pregnancy was torture for me, and I mean that in the truest sense of the word. It caused me extreme levels of physical discomfort, culminating in extreme levels of physical pain, and it ripped right through me on a psychological level as well. It was a horrible experience for me.
And at that time I didn't know just how "iffy" my body is.
It aggravated my loose joints and made my hips, knees, and lower-back far worse for wear.

I don't hold her accountable for MY choice to keep her and the effects there of, but that's just me. There are a Lot of people who can't seem to do that.
My partner for one has a father who projects all his frustrations on his family, and one of his biggest frustrations is the resentment towards the family for tying him down from a not so terribly young age.
I know Several people with similar/same problems between them and their parents.

The main reason why I'm the one who takes care of my daughter is knowing that if I didn't, then she would be in the hands of my ex's mother. He's got his issues, but she's a terrifying woman. I wouldn't trust her to take care of a plant, let alone a small human being. She's raised three highly dysfunctional people. An obese pathological liar. A codependent boy who can't keep a job, let alone take responsibility for when he looses it. And my ex, who has such a hard time accepting that he's got some control over his own life that he joined the AA, even if he doesn't drink!
To put an aspbergers child in her care would be cruel.
So I'm the best choice in the situation...

(winded reply is becoming winded and partially off topic)

The point I'm trying to make here is;
- Not all parents are capable of doing a decent job. Heck, many parents do a really poor one and inflict upon their children serious problems and scars for life.
- Not all birth-parents are able to give up their children into better homes. In many places the grandparents are able to legally interfere the adoption process (though the easiest way is just to pressure the birth-parents to comply) and thus, if the grandparents aren't "decent" people it means that in some situations, a good home isn't an available option.
- Pregnancy is a dangerous, highly physically stressful and draining process. For nine months, the child is like a parasite that feeds off the mother. And even if everything goes well, it causes permanent changes to the body and not just aesthetic ones. By examining just the pelvic bone, and nothing else, there are telltale signs that make it possible to see whether the owner of said bone has given birth. And I'm not even thinking of serious complications at all. It's serious and should Not, under Any circumstances, be Forced on Any human being!
- Birth is a violent, extremely painful, dangerous, physically stressful and draining process. Even if the pregnancy goes "perfect" it's not over until the post-birth-bleeding stops. Children have died giving birth, because they aren't allowed an abortion.

I am pro Life.
I believe that every living human being should have full rights to live as long as it doesn't interfere with the rights of other people to do so.
But this means I am pro Choice as well.
Because forcing a woman to carry to term and give birth to a child she doesn't want is imposing on her right to live, her right to dominion over her own body, and so on. It's cruel to the point of torturous to do that to a human being and no amount of "think of the baby" can justify that in my mind.
The growing child is in fact imposing on her right by it's mere presence, and thus her rights trump it's. It's self defense to end a pregnancy that causes the mother nothing but suffering, and it's compassionate to end a pregnancy that would otherwise place a child in a terrible situation.


Miniar really did the job of saying it all. I could not have made my point anywhere near as clear as this. I'm with him.
I'll be there someday, I can go the distance
I will find my way, If I can be strong
I know every mile, Will be worth my while

When I go the distance, I'll be right where I belong
  •