A question about transgender

[senwyn1]

I was speaking to a member of the LGBT today and I asked him a question that's been bugging me for a while. He didn't really answer it, so I'm guessing he didn't know. Because of that, I came to this forum.
Basically, my question is more aimed at transgenders and funnily enough, it's about the subject of gender. Biologically, I am female. But mentally, I wouldn't say I felt myself to be a gender. So how does a trans make the distinction? I'd say that it's fairly easy for transsexuals who feel body dysphoria, but how do transgenders realise 'I feel male, not female'? Where does the distinction between feeling male or female begin?
That's basically it. And surely it's more than behaviour. You can't just say 'I feel male because I used to play with cars as a kid' surely. Can anyone clear this up for me?

[Kurzar]

I'm sure many of us will have different stories.  For me deep down I always knew, but I guess the light bulb didn't turn on till I was 32 and finally ready to admit it to myself and others around me. Growing up I was very much what everyone called a 'tomboy'.  I even walked 'funny', well what people didn't realize is I had a male walk...not a female walk.  There's so much more involved, but it's not something you just wake up one day and go 'I think i'd rather be a man/woman now'.

[Nero]

Hi Senwyn,

I'll try to answer your question. A lot of it for me is body dysphoria and it's also more about identity than behavior for me. It's just something you know internally. It's not a feeling you get because you like certain things or clothes. It's just something you know. I don't really think it's something that can be put into words. Sort of like trying to describe to someone how you know you're human, despite the fact there's little distinction between human and animal behaviors.

[senwyn1]

@Kurzar:
Thank you for answering. 
You feel male because you walk in a masculine way? You say deep down you always felt male, always were male, but how do you know that you feel male as opposed to female as opposed to genderless as opposed to bigender?
I'm not trying to get at 'when' people knew it's how. How did you make that distinction and go 'yes, i'm male, not female'? What is the mental difference between being Male and Female?
I'm really puzzled by how anyone can tell that they are mentally female or mentally male. Maybe I'm genderless or something, because I don't 'feel' like my mind has a gender.
I'm not transphobic, if you're male, you're male. But I want to know HOW you know that.

@Nero:
Thank you for answering as well. 
Maybe I'm being too philosophical. It's just that I don't feel personally like I have a specific mental gender. I mean, if someone asked me if I was female, I would say yes because biologically I am. I wouldn't say that my mind felt feminine or masculine to me.. so I was wondering how a transgender could go 'my mind is male, not female'. I suppose it's a hard question to ask. And I see your point. Technically, you're a human because you're a difference species but I suppose someone could argue they are actually a wolf or a fish or something mentally.

[Lachlann]

Honestly?When I was 5, before I felt any real body dysphoria, something in my mind just told me, "I'm a guy" and I can't really explain it. It's just something that I knew. I don't think it's anything I can really explain, it's like knowing something's going to happen before it happens.

[senwyn1]

Thank you for replying

I guess.. looking at the three answers i've received.. it really is a case of just instinctively feeling a gender. I feel a little unsatisfied with that, but if that's how it is, that's how it is.

[Nero]

hmm. Perhaps it's something that's only felt when in conflict. I'm not the best at analogies, but maybe it's like the appendix. Nobody realizes they have one until it has malfunctioned and needs removed.

@Kurzar:
Thank you for answering. 
You feel male because you walk in a masculine way? You say deep down you always felt male, always were male, but how do you know that you feel male as opposed to female as opposed to genderless as opposed to bigender?
I'm not trying to get at 'when' people knew it's how. How did you make that distinction and go 'yes, i'm male, not female'? What is the mental difference between being Male and Female?
I'm really puzzled by how anyone can tell that they are mentally female or mentally male. Maybe I'm genderless or something, because I don't 'feel' like my mind has a gender.
I'm not transphobic, if you're male, you're male. But I want to know HOW you know that.

@Nero:
Thank you for answering as well. 
Maybe I'm being too philosophical. It's just that I don't feel personally like I have a specific mental gender. I mean, if someone asked me if I was female, I would say yes because biologically I am. I wouldn't say that my mind felt feminine or masculine to me.. so I was wondering how a transgender could go 'my mind is male, not female'. I suppose it's a hard question to ask. And I see your point. Technically, you're a human because you're a difference species but I suppose someone could argue they are actually a wolf or a fish or something mentally.

[Lachlann]

I think you also have to take into account that a lot of it is something that society has made. It's a rather abstract concept when you try to take away all the influences.

[Kurzar]

Yeah it is pretty hard to explain. It's just something you know. I knew as a kid but I did my best to be what I thought my parents wanted. Because of that I was suicidal by 10 (1st attempt the same year I hit puberty).  For those who are the gender they were born as, it's hard for them to understand just how difficult it makes simple life for TG folks.

[Luna!]

I'm not really sure this can be answered objectively. For example, how do I know that I feel 'feminine' the same way a girl does? I don't, not really. But she doesn't necessarily feel feminine in the same fashion as a third girl; there isn't necessarily just one thing that falls under that term.

People generally don't become aware of any internal gender until they come across something that isn't it. (Would I feel 'feminine' if I had never met anyone who wasn't? Probably not; it'd be ignored by my mind as irrelevant data.) Given this, no one is really sure where exactly their feeling is coming from, as it's already established by the time a child understands the concept of any other way of existing.

I can't remember thinking I was a girl until it was pointed out to me that I wasn't. It was just background noise before that.

[gqueering]

Basically, my question is more aimed at transgenders and funnily enough, it's about the subject of gender. Biologically, I am female. But mentally, I wouldn't say I felt myself to be a gender. So how does a trans make the distinction? I'd say that it's fairly easy for transsexuals who feel body dysphoria, but how do transgenders realise 'I feel male, not female'? Where does the distinction between feeling male or female begin?

Hi,
I find your question a bit confusing... you say you want to discuss gender but then you talk about sex. The words "female" and "male" relate to biological sex (and you say you understand about body dyshphoria). If you're talking about gender then you mean "woman" and "man" (being the mainstream genders of our binary gender culture) or "androgyne" or "other".  In order to get a clear response to your question you need to be clear on exactly what it is you're asking.
Whereas "male"/"female"/"intersex" have to do with biology, "woman"/"man"/"androgyne" etc have to do with culture and society. Therefore, when it comes to gender I personally think behaviour is a factor, as are personality and identity. Society has created the label "woman", tagged on a whole lot of definitions and assumptions to it, and then assumed that everyone born female would fit this label. As a female androgyne, I'm saying that I'm not a woman because no matter how hard I tried, I didn't fit into the definition of 'woman'. Yes, definitions & assumptions change, and if the definition of 'woman' changed to include me then I would be a woman. But it hasn't. Also, if the definitions of 'woman' and 'man' kept getting broader then at some stage they'd overlap so much they'd be meaningless (which would be fine by me) but clearly the majority in society aren't ready for that so they keep these boundaries between the two. I don't fit into society's definition of 'man' either. I feel that in the society which I've been born into, (and not all cultures share our western ideas of gender) I am neither 'woman' nor 'man', so I call myself androgyne - it's the label that fits me.
You say that mentally you don't feel any gender, I feel the same (I know some don't, they strongly relate to a gender early on). But I would ask you: how do you identify? When you meet people online do you feel comfortable identifying as a woman? When you look in the mirror and say "I am a woman", does your reflection agree with you? Or does it feel a little 'off'?  Honestly, for me it was meaningless... you could call me a man or a woman and neither connected with me inside. When I read the definition of androgyne for the first time I got this "Ahh!" feeling and felt like I hit the jackpot. Now I look in the mirror and say "I am androgyne" and my reflection smiles back at me.