Gender Certificate (UK)

[Al James]

Please can someone help me clarify this in my own head. As some of you may know I'm still at the early stages of NHS processing, no idea when T or surgery is likely to happen though i'm hoping it will be some time this century. Now back in January i decided to jump the gun, got my name and title legally changed then with a letter from my doctor got my passport and driving licence changed to male. All my documentation is now in male except the HMRC who although they send letters to Mr Alex _______ wont change me to male til i have the gender recognition certificate. Now if i remember rightly you have to have been living in your gender for two years before you can apply for one. Does anyone know whether those two years start from the time of you RLE which could be years away for me; or will they take it from when my passport etc got changed to male? I know i will also have to divorce my civil partner so that i can re marry her once ive got the certificate which is probably one of the most important considerations cos i dont want to spend too long not married to her?

[Keroppi]

Well, the passport & driving licence can serve as part of the evidence that you have lived in your gender role since ***. However, the rule is 2 years full time. They also require two reports from your medical people. The pro forma forms doesn't suggest they require the docs / psychs to confirm you have been living full time X years, but I doubt they would provide such reports for you if they know you don't fulfil the full time requirement.

[Al James]

to be fair i am full time it just took me a long time to approach the medical community. ive been living as male since my twenties but have no documentation to back it up. was just hoping that the panel would take it from the change of all my i d and not the date the psychiatrists give me for the start of my rle which could be anywhere up to two years down the line

[Tay]

As far as I know, it's two years from any documentation you have which proves you were full time male, such as your passport etc.

I'm planning to apply for mine in November, which is two years from my name change. Thankfully I was with the GIC before then because I thought I had to have recommendation from them to change my name and title etc. The things I wish I'd known!

[ToniAndrea]

Good luck with those jerks at the Gender Recognition Panel. I am over ten years post op. Lost my partner to cancer in 2003. To cut a long story short. I have proof including full medical records from a gender clinic at a Major Canadian hospital from 1998 to 2000 when I went back to the UK for srs with Michael Royle in Brighton.
    I sent the GRP my drivers license, Canadian photo ID card, Medical card, Wifes death certificate, Change of name certificate. My medical records with letters from three psychiatrists also a letter from the Matron at the hospital in UK + Michael Royles handwritten notes post surgery.
     I was denied. Because Canada had not changed my birth certificate. Idiots! I was born in UK and had sent them my UK birth certificate plus my Canadian passport. Canada can not change a UK birth certificate... Duh!
    I have been writing back and forth since last year, Still no sense from these jerks.

[Sarah B]

Hi ToniAndrea

I have sent you a Private Message.  If you cannot reply (you need 15 posts to be able to) post a message here.

The overseas track application needs to be sorted out once and for all.  I have also been writing to them for over 3 quarters of a year.

Kind regards
Sarah B

[rejennyrated]

Good luck with those jerks at the Gender Recognition Panel. I am over ten years post op. Lost my partner to cancer in 2003. To cut a long story short. I have proof including full medical records from a gender clinic at a Major Canadian hospital from 1998 to 2000 when I went back to the UK for srs with Michael Royle in Brighton.
    I sent the GRP my drivers license, Canadian photo ID card, Medical card, Wifes death certificate, Change of name certificate. My medical records with letters from three psychiatrists also a letter from the Matron at the hospital in UK + Michael Royles handwritten notes post surgery.
     I was denied. Because Canada had not changed my birth certificate. Idiots! I was born in UK and had sent them my UK birth certificate plus my Canadian passport. Canada can not change a UK birth certificate... Duh!
    I have been writing back and forth since last year, Still no sense from these jerks.

Sadly Toni - as I have already commented to Sarah B. previously, you are one of those who missed the fast track system which was supposed to catch all those who had been postop by more than 2 years at the time that the system was brought into effect and who therefore would not have necessarily had the correct paperwork that this act calls for.

There is a huge problem with this, not least the fact that even someone who is a Uk resident can end up postop and yet unable to get the documents changed because their doctor did not use the right words in his diagnosis. I know for example that this has happened to several intersex people.

It is called the law of unintended consequences.

Fortunately I got my certificate under the fast track where all you needed to show was that you were post surgery - but for some weird reason they closed off that pathway after 2 years.I argued strongly against closing this at the time the act was drafted but I was overruled.

I personally think you might both benefit from contacting Professor Stephen Whittle, who is an expert in gender law. He can be contacted via the press for change website. As a lawyer, he was intimately involved in drafting the act, to which I also made some representations, but whereas I was only on the periphery of the consultation group he was at the heart of the whole thing and certainly has the contacts and expertise to help you http://www.pfc.org.uk/node/31

Just one footnote - My partner Alison and I did move in the same social circles as him at one time, but we did somewhat remove ourselves from them when we moved to Cornwall so sadly I am not convinced that mentioning my name would be of any help to you. So perhaps Just say you found him via PFC.

[ToniAndrea]

Hi! Sarah B,
                     I received a message on here but could not get the actual message. I will email you some names and address in UK of the people I have been in touch with. As Rejennyrated informs Professor Whittle is worth writing to. If I can find his email I will send him a list of my documents submitted and also a list of my complaints.
Post Merge: July 19, 2010, 11:14:55 AM
Thank you Rejenny,
                              Do you happen to have an email address for Professor Whittle? I just finished sending a letter to the website you informed. Hopefully it will find Professor Whittle.

[Sarah B]

Hi ToniAndrea

I did Email Mr Stephen Whilttle a couple of times but I go no response.  However, I believe a formal letter would be more appropriate in these circumstances.

A little more discussion on this issue is apparently needed.  Have to go have to get ready for work.

Kind regards
Sarah B

[ToniAndrea]

Hello again Sarah,
                     I will write a formal letter to Professor Whittle and include copies of my documents and information. Going to cost a fortune in registered mail, My medical file from Van. General is over a 1/2" thick. It has already cost me a bundle registering and sending files etc to the GRP. Which I may add, some did not find their way back home. I suppose Airhead at GRP misplaced or lost them.

[Sarah B]

Hi Toni Andrea

I will also do the same and draft up a letter outlining my case.  However, it would be prudent to ensure that we have direct contact with him and see if he would support us or could he recommend someone that specializes in this area and take this on prior to sending copies of documents in regards to our problems.

I will email Dr Lewis at the PFC and ask him for a contact details for Pr S Whittle.

Kind regards
Sarah B

[ToniAndrea]

Hello Sarah,
                  I just now received a letter from the Justice Minister in the UK. He tells me he is sympathetic to my plight but the GRP are independent of government. he continues, "It is important that as a government minister I take no action which may undermine this position"
     He also goes on that name change and gender on UK passport can be done by submitting the correct documents. Legal name can also be changed with correct documents.Eg CHANGE OF NAME CERTIFICATE.
     Decision made, I have had enough wasting my time with these ignorant people at GRP. As long as my legal name is changed in UK and my passport I am not too fussed about my birth certificate, Let's be honest. How often do you have to produce a birth certificate?
     I will still be able to move to Spain and enjoy the benefits like NHS and whatever benefits the EU offers us poor misplaced Limey's.       
Post Merge: July 21, 2010, 11:24:53 AM
Oh! he also states that my complaint is being investigated and I will hear from them in good time.     

[Sarah B]

Hi Toni Andrea

I would presume the Justice Minister is the person in the UK parliament, who is responsible for the Justice Department?

In addition it seems and sounds like you received a standard 'template' letter.  Which basically says nothing that we do not already know.

Kind regards
Sarah B