Quote from: Anthrogal on August 02, 2010, 04:42:32 PM
Actually, the rich that "deserve" their wealth are an extreme minority in that 1%. Most of it is old money through inheritance. Like any basic sociology class will tell you, that 1% are largely living off what their predecessors made. Also, China isn't really a good example as it is pretty much communist in name only. Furthermore, sure there are problems in Greece, but what about France, Germany, Denmark, etc? They are included in the happiest countries in the world. As far as "complacency" you're going to have to actually find an example of it on a mass scale instead of just a hypothetical situation. You're argument smacks of those Republicans saying we shouldn't give unemployment benefits because that would make them "complacent" when only 1% of the unemployed, if that, actually didn't look for a job.
To respond to your argument, if your talking about the US economy this whole mess was caused by government regulation in the banking industry. They forced banks to loan money to unqualified people, they subsidized those bad loans, and when the economy crashed (housing bubble), they came in and helped us recover, how? by taxing people who make money and giving it to those that dont, all the while they are presenting themselves as the saviors! Hail the government come to save us, but they are the ones that started this mess in the first place. I also dont care which administration started it either democrat republican doesnt matter its corrupt either way. Its like you and your friends sitting at a restaurant eating, you work your IT job and get lots of money, and he works at Dennys and makes a little money, you both order the same hamburger but the management comes up to you and says oh, your friend doesn't make as much as you, so you have to pay 1/2 of his burger. Then they take your money go over to your friend and say HERE look what we have for you, we are going to pay for 1/2 your burger cuz your special ^_^b. Wow gee thanks management of the restaurant your so swell.... oh we forgot to mention, their is a small administrative fee for giving you this money, so we will take a bit of it ok ^_^b.
Thats the reality we live in now, does that seem fair to you? DOES IT REALLY SEEM FAIR THAT THE GOVERNMENT TAKES YOUR MONEY GIVES IT TO SOMEONE ELSE, ALL THE WHILE THEY GET THE PRAISE AND SMILES FROM THE PEOPLE THAT GET IT, NOT YOU. Also, what happens when they become successful and their money gets taken away.... you might see things differently.
See i was born in the USSR, thats right, the USSR where the government had to decide how much pantyhose was allowed per household. Distribution of wealth is not a good idea in any country simply because you are taking away from people who are successful (punishing success) and giving to those that aren't. I am sure in your studies of typical animal behavior you know that if you get the shock plate enough times you stop trying to get the pellet. Well it works for humans too. Everytime you do good you get slapped with more and more taxes you decide, forget this, and leave the country WITH your money and business and go elsewhere were you dont get punished for success. Why do you think all these companies are outsourcing or leaving all together, why do you think we cannot compete in the first place? Taxes, government regulations, and all out corruption. You follow your system and we wont have any jobs anyway for people to be employed in, then the government will simply make jobs for you to do, but you wont have a choice on whether you want to do them or not, you want money, you will do them.
By the way i am not a republican so dont even think of calling me one, i am also not a democrat. I am open minded and try to see both sides and take a look at the solutions through historical data and come to my own conclusions, however i lean a little liberal on social issues and i am dead conservative on fiscal.
The reason no one can find a job is because the government solution to the recession is to tax the business (and people) that create jobs... then provide temporary government employment which is subsidized by those tax dollars, oh did i forget we simply print more money to make the value of our currency more and more worthless.... Eventually the companies will continue to do worse until finally there is no money for the temporary employees... then the government will be in a whole world of hurt and so will we. You think you have seen recession you havent seen anything yet, this is just the tip of the iceberg. If you have ever worked in a government subsidized position then you know that the government by nature is dreadfully inefficient with tax funds, wasteful spending is built into the system because you are punished for efficiency and innovation, let me give you this example: Once a branch for my school is nearing the end of the year (i teach by the way in college), we find ways to spend all the money in our budget because if we dont, it will be taken away next year so spending when we dont need to is the name of the game, all government is based on this, ALL OF IT. How can you hope to offer efficient services when wastefulness is a built in reward for the system?
As for the European countries sure, they are happy, the government is subsidizing their lives, but guess what.... they are running out of money, and just like greece they will fall, but their wont be anyone who can save them if they eventually all fall. Your Utopian socialist state can only exist if the benefits offered to citizens do not exceed the actual amounts brought in my taxes, and taxes are a double edged sword. If you tax to much your economy suffers, tax too little you have to cut programs. Only in a state of balance can your vision of socialism work, but no one has gotten it right simply because of the failings of the human condition.... we want power, and absolute power corrupts does it not... greed, selfishness, that is the downfall of any civilization, free or socialist, its just that in a free society we have more outside controls to prevent it from getting out of hand as rapidly. Take a look at this before you look at those happy European nations:
http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,5515912,00.htmlyeah, most are nearing bankruptcy, like Greece. The US isnt immune either, but who will bail us out?
So to sum up, socialism doesn't work (historically this is accurate), more freedom means more prosperity (yes you have the freedom to fail or succeed its your call), the government's roll is protection only within and without (not to provide you with health care), i think i got all of it... so now i expect everybody to pile up put me down, yes I am a corporate fat cat and evil, well sorry that wont work, i dont have a lot of money, i live with roommates, i am in debt, but working my way out of it, and i drive an accent not a bmw, and in 5 years i will have enough investments to retire, because i give up luxuries today to have an easier life later. My parents came here with nothing, now they have 2 homes and no debt, my dad worked his ass off for it, and so we could have a better life. If transition has told me anything, its that nothing is given to you, you got to get off your ass and do it yourself.
Post Merge: August 02, 2010, 06:45:26 PM
Quote from: Anthrogal on August 02, 2010, 04:42:32 PM
Actually, the rich that "deserve" their wealth are an extreme minority in that 1%. Most of it is old money through inheritance. Like any basic sociology class will tell you, that 1% are largely living off what their predecessors made. Also, China isn't really a good example as it is pretty much communist in name only. Furthermore, sure there are problems in Greece, but what about France, Germany, Denmark, etc? They are included in the happiest countries in the world. As far as "complacency" you're going to have to actually find an example of it on a mass scale instead of just a hypothetical situation. You're argument smacks of those Republicans saying we shouldn't give unemployment benefits because that would make them "complacent" when only 1% of the unemployed, if that, actually didn't look for a job.
Also i forgot to mention, what i do with my money when i die should be my business so those people who inherited wealth, deserve it too, why should you get something someone's dad worked hard for, someone down the line had to do something for that wealth after all and my kids deserve it more then you do, or anyone else. That being said, i wouldnt give it to a kid thats a scumbag though.... I would give it to charity first, and some millionaires actually have.
