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"Can children be transvestites?"

Started by VanessaUniP, November 29, 2010, 04:50:25 AM

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cynthialee

I just reread this topic.
Not a single person advocated anything illeagal or immoral.
The discussion has been bassed primarily on conjecture and the experiances of those with first hand knowledge of the topic.

Can this topic come back and bite us in the ass?
Yes. (Not likely though. No one has taken a position that advocates anything illeagal.)

Is that a reason to completely avoid a topic?
No.

Just because a topic makes you squeemish or it seems uncooth to talk about does not delegitimize the discussion.
We have maintained the conversation with dignity and with a minimal amount of negative input.

Back on topic:
Children are capable of a myriad of human states of being. Sexuality does not mysticaly become evident in a person on their 18th birthday. Sexuality starts developing in a person at a very young age. If children are capable of sexual thoughts and feelings.... It just stands to reason that some children might be drawn to a transvestic sexual expression.
So it is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you can win a hundred battles without a single loss.
If you only know yourself, but not your opponent, you may win or may lose.
If you know neither yourself nor your enemy, you will always endanger yourself.
Sun Tsu 'The art of War'
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kate durcal

Quote from: kate durcal on June 23, 2011, 06:47:18 PM
I am very uncofortable with some of the posting in this thread.

Some evil people may get a hold of them, take them out of contest and claim "you see TG/TS sponsoring pedophilia.

Personally I strongly disagre with ascrbing sexuality to children.

I strongly suggest this thread be deleted immidiatly.

Kate D

[edited by Padma to remove unsupported and inflammatory statement]

Could you please PM the "unsupported and inflmatory statment" so I can learn from my mistake?

Thanks!

Kate D
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Padma

Kate, I've pm'd you - and I may have misunderstood your statement, so if I did, I apologise.

I understand your concern about outsiders' reinterpretation of this thread, but I think it's harmless enough, it is just an exploration of a question being asked, and mainly people responding with their own experiences.

Personally, I believe that children do have a sexuality, but that it's very different from an adult (or adolescent) sexuality. I think it's important to acknowledge its existence, and its difference too, and to honour it as something that belongs to the child, and never to an adult.
Womandrogyneâ„¢
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cynthialee

Quote from: Padma on June 23, 2011, 07:18:36 PM
Kate, I've pm'd you - and I may have misunderstood your statement, so if I did, I apologise.

I understand your concern about outsiders' reinterpretation of this thread, but I think it's harmless enough, it is just an exploration of a question being asked, and mainly people responding with their own experiences.

Personally, I believe that children do have a sexuality, but that it's very different from an adult (or adolescent) sexuality. I think it's important to acknowledge its existence, and its difference too, and to honour it as something that belongs to the child, and never to an adult.

YES!!!

That statement brought a tear to my eye.

So it is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you can win a hundred battles without a single loss.
If you only know yourself, but not your opponent, you may win or may lose.
If you know neither yourself nor your enemy, you will always endanger yourself.
Sun Tsu 'The art of War'
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spacial

My own view is that childhood is when so many of our adult expectations, disappointments and problem can start. As an adult, for example, we can learn a new experience and seek to expand upon it. As a child this is often not so simple.

Moreover, what can be simple yet positive curiosity in child hood, can so easily lead to neurosis in adulthood when handled badly.

Yet so many people experience life long problems because of the frustrations they have with resolving their childhood experiences. I for example, began to see my very being as something to fear and condem, this later turned to resentment toward those around me, all as a result of the reaction I received, as a child. I know many others will say the same.

But sadly, there are very real differences in the way many people perceive children. I have spoken to child psychiatrists, not to mention social workers and activists, who adamantly maintain that children, especially pre-pubescent, have no awareness of sexuality.

I have spoken to numerous adult women, who I knew as little girls, who have maintained the same thing, even though I recall having to deal with some of their precociousness.

Many, I also know, seek to attack any such notions, largely out of their own insecurities. 'They doth protest too much' has not yet dawned on them.

I am certainly not suggesting, in any way, that we shouldn't discuss these issues. They are important to us all and one of the glaring absenses from these pages. I'm simply suggesting we should be careful with our wording.

I, for example, have said previously, on a number of occasions, that I was sexually abused as a child. I don't really recall the details. I was certainly not physically hurt, as most children who suffer sexual abuse are not. I have said that this caused enormous long term consequences, as it almost certainly does for most children. But I am unable and unwilling, on any public place to describe, in any manner, what those consequences are. This is simply because I do not want myself, nor my dear friends here, to be labled as promoting, in any manner, what some might claim to be a positive image of child sexual abuse.

Child sexual activity is wrong. This is a fundimental principal in most societies and I believe, the right one. (And I deeply resent the necessity of having to add that last comment. But it does demonstrate how utterly stupid and circular, the whole issue has become).
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Taka

Quote from: spacial on June 24, 2011, 04:37:21 AM
Child sexual activity is wrong. This is a fundimental principal in most societies and I believe, the right one. (And I deeply resent the necessity of having to add that last comment. But it does demonstrate how utterly stupid and circular, the whole issue has become).
now i just have to ask you, what exactly do you mean by "child sexual activity"? if it's something taught by an adult or older child, then it is definitely not right. but what if it's something the child happened to learn on it's own, like masturbation?

i think it's dangerous to not talk about children and sexuality. one thing is that adults refusing to recognize children as possible sexual beings may come to the wrong conclusions and brand a little girl "mentally ill" just because they see her masturbating. or they may think someone has been abusing her, and make loving parents into criminals

another thing is that if you can't speak to kids about anything regarding sexuality, you'll have big problems finding out about sexual abuse. if you can't talk about touching people's butts in front of a child because it's "not suitable", then the child isn't likely to tell if this happens to it
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spacial

You make some good points explorer.

Sadly, we live in an age where certain things are very difficult to discuss, especially when it may involve challanging established doctrine.

I recall, up until the 70s, to even suggest that children and sexuality existed almost invariably ended up with, at least someone saying, 'Are you talking aboout it because you want to do it?'. Even in 1984, when I was taking a class on the origins of mental illness, exclusive to mental health professionals, I raised the subject of sexual abuse and was met with this very response. (Not for the first time, nor the last).

So, for certain subjects, some of us have learnt to add a standard discalmer. I detest child abuse. I am not a racist. Hitler was history's worst criminal. I support Israel. I'm sure 9/11 actually happened. The colonies were a bad thing. America is to be admired. And so on.

The problem with listing them is that it tends to leave you open to suggestions of paranoia. (But just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they're not out to get you!).
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kate durcal

Quote from: spacial on June 24, 2011, 08:03:31 AM
America is to be admired

Now, here is one we can all agree  >:-)

Love,

Kate D
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ajborelli

i think being that i myself am very young i think children do know what they are doing. i babysit my cousins and my one cousin who was about 7 loved to wear dresses and such and his brother who was 5 would make fun of him saying only girls wore all of that and that he was a fag and everything in that sort. for a while the older one would cry about it than after a bit he finally just said i like dressing like this it feels right. so yes i think kids know. growing up i was always more comfortable in basketball shorts and a t shirt or no shirt, i hung out with all guys and hated all the girls that where near me, hated anyone that assioated me as a female.
the only thing about children being it is that parents can force their children to wear what they want, so if a parent doesnt like their child wearing clothes of the oppisite sex they change that really fast, or if lets say a boy has all sisters the sisters could treat him like another sister and he would just think that thats how he should act if he doesnt know a boy "doesnt" wear a dress. so i guess it goes both ways.
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spacial

Quote from: kate durcal on June 24, 2011, 01:15:35 PM
Now, here is one we can all agree  >:-)

Love,

Kate D

I really don't want to hijack this great thead. But I would like to add that I do, honestly agree with each comment. I just resent the need to make them and lack the guts not to.  :laugh:

ajborelli

Thank you for that breif description of the experiences of your cousin. It really is sad, and not a little disturbing that a 5 year old should call his brother a fag. Though I'm certain many of us have had not dissimilar experiences.

You didn't say how old the wee mite is now, but can you say something about how he is coping now and how his family are dealing with him?
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ajborelli


he is 11 now and he still like girl things, but he has a lot of brothers and they got on him a lot about things and than he was around me a lot and i was always more into boy things and i was really the only girl in his life so he kind of just adapted to acting like me. which now that i think about it i hate, i wish he was still the little boy who ran around in dresses and wands and called himself a fairy. i had a talk with him a little bit ago about me shaving my head and he asked why i did it if im going to look like a boy if i am a girl and i said because maybe loooking like a boy is what i want to do and in order to really make it in this world you have to make yourself happy before you can help anyone else happy. he just looked at me and said love yourself so others can love you as well and i said exactly and he said i dont love myself anymore i lost who i was, so why do you still love me? and i said no matter what happens to you no matter what you choose i willl love you, dont let anyone tell you you cant be something or do something, unless it is the cops or the law, be who you are, and ill stand up for you. he said thanks and asked if i would play barbies with him i laughed and said barbies are for girls im gonig to play football like a real man and he said im going to play barbies like a lady should.
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cynthialee

Quote from: ajborelli on June 24, 2011, 01:54:43 PM
he is 11 now and he still like girl things, but he has a lot of brothers and they got on him a lot about things and than he was around me a lot and i was always more into boy things and i was really the only girl in his life so he kind of just adapted to acting like me. which now that i think about it i hate, i wish he was still the little boy who ran around in dresses and wands and called himself a fairy. i had a talk with him a little bit ago about me shaving my head and he asked why i did it if im going to look like a boy if i am a girl and i said because maybe loooking like a boy is what i want to do and in order to really make it in this world you have to make yourself happy before you can help anyone else happy. he just looked at me and said love yourself so others can love you as well and i said exactly and he said i dont love myself anymore i lost who i was, so why do you still love me? and i said no matter what happens to you no matter what you choose i willl love you, dont let anyone tell you you cant be something or do something, unless it is the cops or the law, be who you are, and ill stand up for you. he said thanks and asked if i would play barbies with him i laughed and said barbies are for girls im gonig to play football like a real man and he said im going to play barbies like a lady should.

I need a tissue. You made me cry.
:icon_hug:
So it is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you can win a hundred battles without a single loss.
If you only know yourself, but not your opponent, you may win or may lose.
If you know neither yourself nor your enemy, you will always endanger yourself.
Sun Tsu 'The art of War'
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spacial

Quote from: ajborelli on June 24, 2011, 01:54:43 PM
he is 11 now and he still like girl things, but he has a lot of brothers and they got on him a lot about things and than he was around me a lot and i was always more into boy things and i was really the only girl in his life so he kind of just adapted to acting like me. which now that i think about it i hate, i wish he was still the little boy who ran around in dresses and wands and called himself a fairy. i had a talk with him a little bit ago about me shaving my head and he asked why i did it if im going to look like a boy if i am a girl and i said because maybe loooking like a boy is what i want to do and in order to really make it in this world you have to make yourself happy before you can help anyone else happy. he just looked at me and said love yourself so others can love you as well and i said exactly and he said i dont love myself anymore i lost who i was, so why do you still love me? and i said no matter what happens to you no matter what you choose i willl love you, dont let anyone tell you you cant be something or do something, unless it is the cops or the law, be who you are, and ill stand up for you. he said thanks and asked if i would play barbies with him i laughed and said barbies are for girls im gonig to play football like a real man and he said im going to play barbies like a lady should.

I am really pleased that little child has the loving support they deserve and need. I am also in admiration of you for putting yourself out to stand up for them.

Thank you so much for telling us this. When the child is older, please give them our best wishes. Tell them, they are not alone.
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Taka

Quote from: ajborelli on June 24, 2011, 01:54:43 PM
he is 11 now and he still like girl things, but he has a lot of brothers and they got on him a lot about things and than he was around me a lot and i was always more into boy things and i was really the only girl in his life so he kind of just adapted to acting like me. which now that i think about it i hate, i wish he was still the little boy who ran around in dresses and wands and called himself a fairy. i had a talk with him a little bit ago about me shaving my head and he asked why i did it if im going to look like a boy if i am a girl and i said because maybe loooking like a boy is what i want to do and in order to really make it in this world you have to make yourself happy before you can help anyone else happy. he just looked at me and said love yourself so others can love you as well and i said exactly and he said i dont love myself anymore i lost who i was, so why do you still love me? and i said no matter what happens to you no matter what you choose i willl love you, dont let anyone tell you you cant be something or do something, unless it is the cops or the law, be who you are, and ill stand up for you. he said thanks and asked if i would play barbies with him i laughed and said barbies are for girls im gonig to play football like a real man and he said im going to play barbies like a lady should.
that's just great. the world need more people like you

on another note, i'm really jealous of you. only answer i can give my daughter when she wants to play barbies with me is that i'm not a girl so i don't know how to do it. even if i'd love to play with cars i'm not too sure about me being a man, so i can't give that as a reason
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Da Monkey

Only girls play with barbies and boys play with cars?

I played with barbies and dressed them up as a child and it didn't make me any less of a man or any more of a woman.
The story is the same, I've just personalized the name.
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Taka

i played barbies only with other girls, and that one girly boy in my sister's class. my problem is that i don't remember how to do it any more, i like cars, lego, climbing trees, those kinds of things. but my daughter never wants to, she's a very typical girl, got it from her father
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ajborelli

Quote from: explorer on June 25, 2011, 05:05:01 AM
i played barbies only with other girls, and that one girly boy in my sister's class. my problem is that i don't remember how to do it any more, i like cars, lego, climbing trees, those kinds of things. but my daughter never wants to, she's a very typical girl, got it from her father

children love when you ask them to teach you how to play games they love. so ask her to show you how to play with barbie and go along with it. there is no need to love playing with them just the love for playing with your daughter
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eshaver

The short answer again is Y. E. S. !!!!!!!!!! Heck, I started at I guess age five . I knew I hated the thought of my male parts . I was jealous of the girls down the street as they payed  "Dress- Up " all the time . I wanted to participate in those activities too. I did , I would dive into my mothers stuff and parade about in private . I then hadthe chore of trying to put everything back, just as I found it too. I continued on into my teenage years feeling weird as I had no idea that there was a secret world of T G people out there . In 1970, I got to meet Ms Christiene Jorgensen , there , I slowly began a slow journey........... ellen
See ya on the road folks !!!
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