The power of the truth

[Cassandra]

Reality is that which one must deal with rather you like it or not.

Ideology and philosophy are the thoughts. words, and deeds which we use to affect change in the real world hopefully for the better. The problems arise from too many competing ideologies and philosophies. Some peoples philosophy is to kill them all and let god sort them out. Not my particular preference but one must be prepared to deal with the realities of such people or their philosopy could become the dominant one.

[Terri-Gene]

As always, you are very sweet and honest.

Easy on that Steph,  You'd have to know me better.  I've found that I can be less then honest at times, one of the things I'm working on.  As to sweet, well I guess you could say the same about a rattlesnake in the rose bushes, and I don't always give warning before I strike.

Second, I feel that someone's life is not a fair exchange for my own, I don't want anyone todie for me, period. 

Luana, when a person puts thier own life before yours they have declared your rights null and void and  when they do that you are under no obligation to  let them, rather you are justified by the laws of nature to do unto them as they would do unto you, but your motive would be pure survival while theirs is simple self interest.  To kill them before they kill you is not a "trade" it is simple survival and justified by the laws of man and most moralities.  At the least, it is ethical to defend yourself to whatever extent it takes to insure survival.

Terri

[Celia]

Games aren't very amusing and tests aren't very useful when they don't bear some resemblance to or have some relationship with life.  But proper games and tests are generally human contrivances.  Existence isn't.  It might be a fruitful metaphor to regard life as a game or a test, but I haven't seen evidence yet that it is literally either one.  Beliefs, maybe, but no evidence.

-Celia

[Terri-Gene]

No one said anything about games and tests being literal in the sense of this conversation Celia.  As you say, just metaphores.  but human life is a social thing and the things you do on almost a moment by moment basis can affect the rest of your life, thus the metaphores game and tests.  If you break with your principles, you break period and it takes a lot of work to put the pieces of the puzzle back together again.


Terri

[VeryGnawty]

If life is a test, then I obviously didn't take very good notes.

[Terra]

Here is another thought on tests...

When jesus said he would come like a "thief in the night', what do you think he ment?

Personally, if i'm a thief, I don't want you to know i'm their. So this means that he can come at anytime and anyplace. Also, god didn't destroy the world the first time around untill the people had gotten past the hope of redemption as a whole.

So if this is the case, would it not be safe to assume that an aspect of the test would be wether we can live with one another? Afterall, this world will end eventually, either by us blowing each other up or the sun exploding. Personally I like the time limit of a few million years to the decades we seem currently limited to.

For those of you who say that life isn't a test, think about it some more, I didn't mean the traditional test, but the everyday one we put on ourselves and others. Like say when you meet someone new, isn't the fact that you find them tolorable or not a pass/fail in itself?

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Also, for the last time, i'm not a pacifist. I WILL shoot you if you try to hurt me. But I will shoot your knee or other non vital area. This isn't the movies, such a shock to your system WILL most likly put you down and out. You can live with a painfull leg, or even without one, but missing a heart or brain is rather hard even with todays medicine.

That said, I believe in redemption and that everyone has a spark, no matter how small, of good in them. If I kill someone, that chance of redemption is gone. Once we die we are judged on how we lived our lives. Or for those of you who don't believe in God, think about all the missed chances that dead man/woman will have to make the world better.

As I said, my life is not worth that of another. I'd rather die in an ally then know that I live because someone else took my spot in the ground. If in self defense I accidently kill them, fine, but I will NEVER take another life with intent. There are plenty of other ways to defend yourself then with a gun and bullet.

[Terri-Gene]

For those of you who say that life isn't a test, think about it some more, I didn't mean the traditional test, but the everyday one we put on ourselves and others

exactly Luana, you see it the same way I do.  All of life is a test of who and what we are, how we react to situations, what we do, good or bad and what we learn and do about our mistakes.  It is all about how we deal with our ethics and morality, and when we fail in a particular case, what we learn about ourselves and our relations and if we take responsibility and correct the problem within ourselves or not.

If you pass, or work out what we fail in, we are happier people, if we keep failing in the same areas, we will be miserable. sometimes failures are needed to wake one up to seemingly "small" problems which put to gether in the right circumstances can become huge problems that one must go back to work on the smaller problems in order to correct the larger one.  If you can do that, then a "pass is achieved"

i'm not a pacifist. I WILL shoot you if you try to hurt me. But I will shoot your knee or other non vital area.

Hah, I understand you are trying to draw a difference in self defense and killing, but I can tell you that in any extream situation with little or no time, you do not take chances on missing while trying to hit a specific point that will disable but not kill.  Consider what happens all to often in real such situations, you wound someone and they continue to fire back and get one in you INTENDED to kill and there you go.  No,.... you aim center mass, to give the largest possible target.  I was trained to put one round center mass which if body armor is worn will weaken the underlying plate, then place another round in the same place to penitrate the weakend plate and then go one to the forhead in case the plate was not penitrated, 3 rounds per person, more only if necessary, but never less. or if no body armor was worn, the person may still be functional, and if you don't intend to kill, then you just hope that no vital areas are hit, but that leaves them dangerous, but in essance you shoot to kill or do not shoot at all,  to do otherwise is to end up under the grass rather then on it. just a simple fact of the jungle.

It is a terrible thing though and I would wish such things didn't have to happen, but we all know better, that don't stop me from wishing it were possible to simply outrun a bullet rather then return one. I know though that I'm fast and durable, but not that fast and not that durable.

I believe in redemption and that everyone has a spark, no matter how small, of good in them. If I kill someone, that chance of redemption is gone.

Yes, there are people that can never be redeemed, but most, especially if they have a good core, will redeam themselves if given a chance.  as far as redemption beling lost if a person is killed, well, sorry, but I'd rather have my own chance at redemption then someone who was trying to take me out.  and redemption for them is still possible, its in the hands of his maker at that point.

my life is not worth that of another

That depends on who they are and if your talking to me or someone else.  My life is worth much more to myself then that of someone who puts thiers above mine.

Terri