I used to be a regular here on Susan's years ago. I fully transitioned nearly 10 years go and have been happy. Most of my trans friends (and I have many!) have been happy with their transitions as well.
Lately in the media I'm seeing alot of press on those who choose to detransition, and their stories are being used against other trans people who want to transition. Walt Heyer, for example.
Reasons they're giving: hormones are dangerous, puberty blockers are dangerous, surgery produces regret, transitioned people still attempt suicide at alarming rates, transition doesn't fix the problem, and, most trans people who transition eventually detransition. Most of the articles they cite come from the Federalist and other right-leaning sites. None of these reasons are true for me personlly; I don't argue that hormone replacement therapy isn't without risk, but the risk of not using them, for me, was death.
Reasons I've heard that ring more true: detransitioning in order to keep a job or gain employment or housing, loss of beloved family members who can't accept transition, so transition back to keep loved ones, continual bullying, some rushed transition with informed consent and didn't undergo therapy before taking hormones, then realized they weren't trans after all, and others along those lines.
So I thought I'd go straight to the source: Those of you who have detransitioned, are considering de-transitioning, or choosing not to transition. And if you have a valid health concern about the hormones and/or surgery with research articles, even better.
I'm all for whatever we all need to do to live our lives in the best way possible. I have no problem talking publicly about people who choose to detransition or not transition. Your stories need to be heard as well We all need to do what's best for ourselves and I respect your decisions to do what is right for you.
These topics seem to be coming up as more and more youngsters come out as trans, and parents are looking for ways to justify not helping them with their dysphoria.
Thanks.
Jay
Walt Heyer is selling books to a niche audience. No problem with that, it's the spirit of entrepreneurship. His story has nothing to do with anyone else, though, any more than my story is anyone else's. He's simply walking his own path, as we do.
Hugs, Devlyn
So true! Thanks.
Hi Hon,
I remember you and it's lovely to hear from you again. I hope you are well.
The detransition reports are interesting as when you go to centres that look after TG people there is no evidence to support those 'stories'.
The places I know are the Australian units ranging from Queensland, Melbourne and Adelaide. There is a very low detransition rate and a very low regret rate. The largest paediatric unit at the Royal Children's Hospital in Melbourne run by the marvellous Dr Michelle Teller reports a detransition rate of less than 0.1%.
All of the centres that I have information on use informed consent that includes counselling and does not correspond to 'hormones on demand'.
The data from Argentina that went to a hormones on demand and even surgery on demand demonstrate a much higher regret and detransition rate. I suspect that it is such data that is being used by people who have an agenda against TG people.
Hi Jay,
Welcome home.
We are looking at culture and society trying to protect itself, in many ways - relying on the old stalwarts of Fear, Obligation and Guilt. In many ways too, if there is dysfunction in the family then it is not uncommon for a degree of codependency to have developed - denial of self for the greater good (or the bigger narcissist), so it becomes easy to conflate our denial of our desires with our need to maintain where we are.
For some folk, their sense of self is sufficiently developed for fog to have little effect, and held in a healthy perspective, and for others, the will to live is greater than the sum of all of the objections, and they are the transitioners. Either end of the spectrum so to speak, and that leaves the gap in the middle, some who do, some who don't, some who try not to and succeed, and some who crash and burn (me), and those who know that they are different, but are unable to quite put a label on it - you'll find us here.
Hopefully, others will chime in.
Rowan
Doing very well, Cindy! Thank you. You're looking fine! Love the hair! :D
I will look into the Argentina angle. I hadn't heard that before. But it makes sense, with no therapy and hormones/surgery on demand, there'd be more regrets.
I didn't realize (since I haven't been in transition in a while) that trans kids can get top surgery with parental consent, and I read a report they've done SRS on minors for MTF as well. I didn't know minors were, in fact, getting surgery done. I guess that is alarming to some people who fear regret.
Jay
Quote from: sneakersjay on November 06, 2017, 02:31:13 PM
Doing very well, Cindy! Thank you. You're looking fine! Love the hair! :D
I will look into the Argentina angle. I hadn't heard that before. But it makes sense, with no therapy and hormones/surgery on demand, there'd be more regrets.
I didn't realize (since I haven't been in transition in a while) that trans kids can get top surgery with parental consent, and I read a report they've done SRS on minors for MTF as well. I didn't know minors were, in fact, getting surgery done. I guess that is alarming to some people who fear regret.
Jay
I haven't heard of minors getting surgery here. Australia still has a Family Court act that kicks in at about 16 for the client to seek cross sex hormones never mind surgery. It is up for repeal but our government is bogged down in self survival rather than doing any government type stuff
It may be possible for FtM to get top surgery at 16-18 but otherwise here it is still over 18 for any surgery. Of course people still go to Thailand if they wish. Clinically I would have thought that bottom surgery would be a bad idea before the body had stopped growing as the neo vagina or phallo would not grow during adolescent or childhood body development.
There people who are making all this talk about regret are not interested evidence and I doubt any amount of evidence will help. I believe there's been good studies on it already.
Personally I've been medically transitioning, but not socially, and the reason is ultimately the social cost in an intolerant society.
I believe SRS is illegal before 18 years old in Thailand. See Clause 5 below
http://www.thailawforum.com/sex-change-operations-law.html
I am the male depleted host/primary alter of a Multiple Personality/Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID/MPD) System resulting from childhood sexual and psychological trauma, and was misdiagnosed as transsexual because of my female alter's need to express herself as another gender. You can read more at https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,228889.msg2038352.html#msg2038352 .
There are valid reasons for caution in diagnosis. The most recent clinical statistics available show it is more likely that a person is suffering from DID than they are transsexual:
1% to 3% of the population have Dissociative Identity Disorder according to The International Society for the Study of Trauma and Dissociation. About the same as the number of people who are gay/bisexual.
http://www.isst-d.org/downloads/guidelines_revised2011.pdf
Only 0.6% were estimated to be transgender in the Williams Institute's landmark 2016 study.
http://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/wp-content/uploads/How-Many-Adults-Identify-as-Transgender-in-the-United-States.pdf
Complicating things even more, the psyche can completely block all memory and feelings of trauma from the conscious mind. In my case, it took THREE years of therapy to begin to recover my memories of my childhood sexual and psychological abuse.
Transsexuality shares many symptoms with DID and other trauma related disorders resulting from sexual abuse. Transsexuals also experience gender dypshoria, sexual confusion and the feeling of having been born in the wrong body for as long as they can remember. They were bullied and did not fit in with other children who were the same assigned at birth gender. Transsexuals often struggle with the idea they are transsexual, are survivors of childhood sexual and psychological abuse, and suffer from the very same psychological conditions DID uses to mask itself (depression, PTSD, bipolar disorder and schizophrenia). Transsexual people can even have Dissociative Identity Disorder.
Thank you for informing me that I have a serious mental illness rather than a rather straight-forward medical issue, this makes life so much easier. </sarcasm>
Those stats only cover the US, and as such come with cultural bias. In the 4.5 years I was in therapy, there was not even the slightest inkling of any great trauma or abuse. I'm a transsexual with no indications of any mental illness.
The stats you present, whilst they do support your claim, are answerable with other stats that disagree.. Got a statement from a Major Professional Body that makes the same claims?
I'm all for caution in diagnosis.. But I also find that claims such as these do no good for anyone, whilst they do represent your experience, I have serious doubts they represent the experiences of others.
Virginia, thank you for sharing your experiences.
Like Kelly, I suffered no psychological or sexual abuse or trauma, and I'm truly sorry that happened to you. I know there are others who have, and you make a valid point: that for some people, they need more therapy to uncover potential other issues before transition, or if they even need to transition.
Apparently (or so I've been told) that there are groups on the internet pushing and promoting transition for children, pushing for hormone blockers. I haven't seen that, but I haven't been part of trans forums in a while (too busy enjoying life!). One parent supposedly was told, upon mentioning to the group that their 12-year-old came out as trans, to get them on hormone blockers ASAP! And supposedly are pushing medical transition. I don't know of these groups and if it's true, or if the parent wasn't ready to hear things about transition because they were in denial about what they'd been told, and were in shock. IDK.
I know I won't change anyone's mind. I was just curious, from those here, why you felt de-transitioning was right for you, to see if it lined up with what's being flapped around on the internet as TRUTH.
Jay
Quote from: sneakersjay on November 06, 2017, 06:56:23 PM
Apparently (or so I've been told) that there are groups on the internet pushing and promoting transition for children, pushing for hormone blockers. I haven't seen that, but I haven't been part of trans forums in a while (too busy enjoying life!). One parent supposedly was told, upon mentioning to the group that their 12-year-old came out as trans, to get them on hormone blockers ASAP!
Blockers only pause puberty and are reversible, giving you time to change you mind. Taking blockers is not transitioning.
Don't let my post count fool you, I am relatively new here. If the parents are agreeable, blockers are giving to children entering puberty however hormones and surgery are normally delayed until they are much closer to the age of consent. In the case of FTMs it allows additional height and reduces the secondary sex characteristics and in the case of MTF, eliminates many of the features we have to deal with. Early blocker save a great deal of money and pain. Should the child decide to proceed with their normal puberty, they only need to discontinue the blocker and puberty will proceed normally. Sadly many parents deny there children this opportunity so the children will face a more difficult transition.
You are very welcome, sneakersjay (Jay). It is extremely important for people coming to the forum to realize there are other reasons they may need to express themself as another gender besides transsexuality. I am honored to have helped a half dozen or so folk see the effect childhood trauma had on their sense of gender and sexuality so they did not have to walk the same horrible journey as me.
@ kelly_aus
I didn't inform you that you have a serious mental illness; I described mine.
(A tip on forum etiquette: Noting a comment to be <sarcasm> does not make it less so).
Quote from: kelly_aus on November 06, 2017, 06:30:07 PM
I'm a transsexual...
Can you explain how you see yourself positively contributing to a thread about reasons for detransitioning or not transitioning?
The statistics are quotes are from a "Major Professional Body" (reference links supplied in original post). That cultural bias exists is a given. In the absence of actual data, these US statistics are the best available, and the effects of said bias, if any, would be pure speculation. Please post the statistics to the contrary from another Major Professional Body when you have a chance.
Quote from: kelly_aus on November 06, 2017, 06:30:07 PM
I also find that claims such as these do no good for anyone, whilst they do represent your experience, I have serious doubts they represent the experiences of others.
If I knew as little about the subject as you, kelly_aus, I might think that too. It might be worth considering why you felt the need to step in to attempt to invalidate and trivialize my experience. I will not discuss this with you further.
My reasons are probably social... mostly...
While I am youngish (23), I am I guess, unfortunately 6ft and while I don't have a bulky build (it's actually quite embarrassing to be 6ft and have a very... slender frame and small feet as I learnt in my futile attempts at going to the gym to try and bulk out when I went though a 'screw it I was born male let's be super masculine' phase lol), it would still extremely suck being centre of attention since you know... 6ft female.
I do fear regret but I actually don't as much anymore since I have come to terms with why worry about something you'll never go though with, I did get to a point where I was saving money just in case I decided to go though with it and I had a nest egg to fall back on while going though the awkward stages of a transition but alas it won't happen.
To put it bluntly, it's easier to go though life as an unhappy but 'normal' person than I guess being different and 'not normal' in eyes of society, I would literally want to die if I got called transphobic slurs in the street, it does suck tho and I will probably regret this decision for the rest of my life and I do think back on those times 6-7 years ago when I would look at girls and think crap, wish that was me.....
I do remember one particular time when I think I was coming home from a friends house like 7 years ago and I was on a train and it was Friday night and there was a group of girls on the train and it just crushed me looking at them being well... female and looked at my reflection in the train window and I just saw this unhappy guy.
Only thing I am doing is growing my hair out and taking finasteride to stop male pattern baldness but... I wouldn't call it 'transition', just a guy who doesn't want to lose his hair I guess, I even have facial hair since I don't have a strong jaw line and I kind of grow out my beard to look more masculine, don't know why but I guess I got to make the best of the hand I was given.
I try to avoid this forum to be honest, I was active for a while but the constant updates on peoples transitions just made me think about it all the time.
I did email a gender clinic once in the UK and I got pretty cold vibe from it, it seemed rushed like "oh yes book two appointments, once to see a therapist and one to get HRT if approved", there doesn't seem to be any good therapists in the London area to just freaking talk to and if there are they're way out of my price range to be throwing money at, the NHS while is helpful in life threatening situations like getting hit by a car freakin' sucks at stuff trans related in terms of therapy, it's kind of like you need to decide before you book the appointment.
sorry for the rambling, I have been holding all these words in for months now and having a bad day and it has all come back to me which is why I am on this forum again I guess.
J2J.
I haven't de-transitioned (I haven't transitioned yet), but I definitely struggle with the "should I or shouldn't I?" of transitioning.
There's no denying who and what I am. It's almost a joke - my friends/co-workers would be talking about wanting to be with an attractive girl, and I was always looking and wanting to *be* her.
But transitioning... that's complicated. I'm 41, married with a kid. If I could push a magic button, I'd do it in a heartbeat. If I could go back 20 years and do it, I would. But doing it now seems overwhelming, mostly because it's not just me. My wife becomes part of a lesbian couple. My son becomes the kid with two moms. The effects on my career are unknown, but I could lose my job.
With that being said, I couldn't really hide it any more. I was accidentally outed to my parents, and that started things in motion - I came out to friends, I came out to family, I came out to Facebook, and I'm reaching a point where I'm not sure what's next.
Part of me wants to transition, but a big part of me is scared of what it'll do to my wife and son. So for now, in stuck in limbo.
Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk
Quote from: Phoenix1742 on November 21, 2017, 11:19:17 AM
I haven't de-transitioned (I haven't transitioned yet), but I definitely struggle with the "should I or shouldn't I?" of transitioning.
There's no denying who and what I am. It's almost a joke - my friends/co-workers would be talking about wanting to be with an attractive girl, and I was always looking and wanting to *be* her.
But transitioning... that's complicated. I'm 41, married with a kid. If I could push a magic button, I'd do it in a heartbeat. If I could go back 20 years and do it, I would. But doing it now seems overwhelming, mostly because it's not just me. My wife becomes part of a lesbian couple. My son becomes the kid with two moms. The effects on my career are unknown, but I could lose my job.
With that being said, I couldn't really hide it any more. I was accidentally outed to my parents, and that started things in motion - I came out to friends, I came out to family, I came out to Facebook, and I'm reaching a point where I'm not sure what's next.
Part of me wants to transition, but a big part of me is scared of what it'll do to my wife and son. So for now, in stuck in limbo.
Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk
Given the 41% attempted suicide rate, you're opening them up to being a widow and the kid with a dead dad if you do nothing. Food for thought.
Hugs, Devlyn
Hey hun, it took me about 18 months to make that decision!
I was married with two small children, I'm no longer married as a result [emoji853]. I'm still in my childrens' lives, and after some adjustment they both seem comfortable with things. Other families have stayed together, it really depends on your partners view of things.
For me in the end, I was living part-time, knew going back would end me, and still needed to go further. Everyone is different, and our comfort zone along the spectrum varies. If you can find where it is, that might help you plot a way forward. X
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I've been on hrt for about 2.5 years and had ffs recently but have contemplated detransitioning for about about a year. Because of that, I never actually did a social transition. That being said, I'm lucky enough to pass while still in male mode which has led to many awkward moments as I still speak, dress, and present as male.
I am starting the process of detransition slowly by lowering the time and dose of hrt so that I can live as a guy again. There are some things I miss as a guy but many things I don't. I don't deny that I'm trans and I have known most of my life. I also expect the dysphoria to come back. All that being said, I want some level of normalcy in my life. I was strong, confident, and tough as a guy. I don't feel that anymore.
During the last year, I've almost attempted suicide, developed BDD, and feel a bit agoraphobia causing me to stay in except when going to work or running errands. I also have noticed that men have started looking at me more so than before. I personally hate it as I am very introverted and hate being noticed. It also makes me want to punch them in the face but well....can't do that.
Overall, I think the transition process is painful and there is a part of my male identity that is still clinging to the last remnants of masculinity. I feel that at least if I detransition, I can go for a few more years before just giving up on life, lol.
Quote from: Virginia on November 06, 2017, 05:32:29 PM
I am the male depleted host/primary alter of a Multiple Personality/Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID/MPD) System resulting from childhood sexual and psychological trauma, and was misdiagnosed as transsexual because of my female alter's need to express herself as another gender. You can read more at https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,228889.msg2038352.html#msg2038352 .
There are valid reasons for caution in diagnosis. The most recent clinical statistics available show it is more likely that a person is suffering from DID than they are transsexual:
1% to 3% of the population have Dissociative Identity Disorder according to The International Society for the Study of Trauma and Dissociation. About the same as the number of people who are gay/bisexual.
http://www.isst-d.org/downloads/guidelines_revised2011.pdf
Only 0.6% were estimated to be transgender in the Williams Institute's landmark 2016 study.
http://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/wp-content/uploads/How-Many-Adults-Identify-as-Transgender-in-the-United-States.pdf
Complicating things even more, the psyche can completely block all memory and feelings of trauma from the conscious mind. In my case, it took THREE years of therapy to begin to recover my memories of my childhood sexual and psychological abuse.
Transsexuality shares many symptoms with DID and other trauma related disorders resulting from sexual abuse. Transsexuals also experience gender dypshoria, sexual confusion and the feeling of having been born in the wrong body for as long as they can remember. They were bullied and did not fit in with other children who were the same assigned at birth gender. Transsexuals often struggle with the idea they are transsexual, are survivors of childhood sexual and psychological abuse, and suffer from the very same psychological conditions DID uses to mask itself (depression, PTSD, bipolar disorder and schizophrenia). Transsexual people can even have Dissociative Identity Disorder.
Hi Virginia,
I wonder if it's statistically valid to extrapolate from these studies. I believe the authors of both would probably say each has a lot of uncertainty. I noticed DSM 5 quoted one small community study in the US and stated DID was 1.5% of the population.
I also wonder what percentage of DID are like you and have no idea they have it and need 3 years of therapy to retrieve trauma memories. It would also be useful to know how many DID have cross gender symptoms. Would this be a much smaller piece of the group? Would this be a better group to compare with the estimated transgender population.
It should also be said that many transgender people are seriously in the closet, so any guesstimate is always going to be lower than actual until society is more accepting.
There are a lot of people who despise transgender people. Arguments like yours, while interesting and worthy of more research, can be misused to cast transgender people as mentally ill. Considering how long it's taken to get rid of that yoke, it shouldn't surprise you if people are a tad sensitive about this sort of thing.
Take care,
Paige :)
There is only one reason I wouldn't have transitioned -- if I wouldn't have been able to elicit impeccably correct gendering.
Quote from: Sophia Sage on November 22, 2017, 11:04:48 AM
There is only one reason I wouldn't have transitioned -- if I wouldn't have been able to elicit impeccably correct gendering.
I detransitioned for four months, bound my chest, stopped my feminizing and hormone balancing protocol, and grew out a litle beard.
I knew it was a limited time, but I wanted a really good temporary oil field job that paid well. It didn't cause as much dysphoria as possible, but I was happy stop when the job ended
Thank you for quoting the DSM-V study, Paige. That is high a fidelity number from a reputable source, and the 1.5% figure is in line with other published statistics for DID. I too speculate there is a large uncertainty in reported data. Much like the pressures and fears that keeps transgender people in the closet, the stigma associated with "being crazy" keeps many people from being "out" about their mental illness. It is dangerous to extrapolate any study, but with 20-25% of transgender people in Canada and the United States identifying beyond the gender binary (ie non-binary/genderqueer. See "Transgender-inclusive measures of sex/gender for population surveys: Mixed-methods evaluation and recommendations NCBI, 2017. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5444783/ ) the actual number of transssexuals would be even lower than the reported 0.6%.
"Childhood Antecedents of Multiple Personality Disorders," by Kluft et al is a classic reference that will answer many of the questions you mentioned on Dissociative Identity Disorder. My two psychologist mentioned 10 years as the average length of therapy for a person with DID and my trauma therapist explained I was "quick" to begin recovery of my memories of trauma. DID is a disorder of secrecy; the victim's life depended on hiding what they were doing. The International Society for the Study of Trauma and Dissociation (ISSTD 2011) reports that people spend between 5 and 12 years in the mental health system before receiving a correct diagnosis for their DID. Twenty Eight percent of patients are not even diagnosed until they are in their 40's or later (Kluft et al).
There is no question that people with DID who have cross gender symptoms are a better group to compare with the transgender population. I cannot find formal published statistics or anything to suggest patients with cross gender symptoms are a small piece of the DID population. The literature widely reports it is "common" for people with MPD/DID to have opposite gender alters in their systems. PsychForum.com mentions that about 50% of the members of their DID forum have male/female alters (See https://www.psychforums.com/dissociative-identity/topic6652.html ). Personally, everyone I have met with DID over the last 9 years has had male and female alters.
I recognize some transgender people find my experience to be unsettling. It is the reason I have taken to using trigger warnings and posting in the Non-Transitioning and Detransitioning forum. Members continue to trivialize my experience and accuse me of making anti transgender arguments when I have never, in any of my posts, done anything besides talk about the things that happened to me. But that does not make what I have to say any less important for people looking for answers about why they may need to express themself as another gender. Or make the things that happened to me any less real or painful.
~VA
This story almost stopped me from starting....
https://4thwavenow.com/tag/mtf-detransition/
But a few days later I just said screw it, Im not getting any younger.
I know what I want, and Im not gonna let some guys 'cult/trauma' experience deter me.
And I told myself that if I end up de-transitioning out of regret, or failure to pass, well who the hell cares.
At least my life will have been a ton more interesting than the average human.
An amazingly powerful read, kayla1618, thank you for sharing. The author's story does not apply to everyone but the articles on the parent site are an excellent resource for someone who is wondering if detransitioning or not transitioning is right for them.
Quote from: kayla1618 on November 23, 2017, 04:59:55 AM
This story almost stopped me from starting....
https://4thwavenow.com/tag/mtf-detransition/
But a few days later I just said screw it, Im not getting any younger.
I know what I want, and Im not gonna let some guys 'cult/trauma' experience deter me.
And I told myself that if I end up de-transitioning out of regret, or failure to pass, well who the hell cares.
At least my life will have been a ton more interesting than the average human.
I stumbled into this thread somehow, not really sure how, and read that link on a whim. It was not what I was expecting, and find myself torn between feeling the author has a good point on a few issues while at the same time feeling as though he has lost sight of the larger world due to his own experiences. Note that this reply isn't to the thread in general, but more specifically that article.
I'd wager the overwhelming majority of us do not find ourselves in anything resembling a cult scenario as described by the author of that piece. Quite the contrary, many of us live in areas actively hostile to transition. That the author found himself in such a circumstance speaks to a larger issue than transitioning regret, and says a lot about the author more than anything else.
Having said that, I do feel that he is right to warn people of being cautious about certain group think scenarios, even if I believe he said this in a very poor manner. Unfortunately, I do believe that the modern political movement built around identity, both sexual and gender, has gotten out of hand in some respects, and while is empowering to many can be stifling and destructive to some who are vulnerable to the influence of ideological demagogues. Yet at the same time, the author fails to own up to the fact that he is the one who joined a commune! If you are joining a commune, any sort of commune, you are expected to conform to a certain level of groupthink. That is how they survive, everyone must be on the same page. And it sounded like he was ripe to be taken advantage of, in ways well beyond transitioning. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that transitioning is such an extreme thing to fall into in such a way, he was doomed in some form from day one even if it wasn't the ideology he found himself a part of. (To put it another way, he seems like he's the kind of person who would join ISIS. And I'm not being facetious at all.)
So yeah, group think is bad. Conforming to peer pressure and letting it dictate your life is bad. It's certainly something to keep in mind when one makes life changing decisions. And while there are some issues to be aware of when it comes to the cultural politics of being trans(for instance, I do tend to share some of the same fears about the cis/trans divide), the trans aspect of his story is basically completely circumstantial, and it sounds as though he would have done almost anything to fit in, in whatever community he wound up in. One man's malleability, in an environment of conformation, does not invalidate hundreds or thousands of us who find ourselves fighting against conformity to our own respective environments in order to be who we are. In short: For him, trans was the easy path. For most of us, it's anything but. You could even say his argument about not being led astray by local goup think can be used in favor of transitioning when placed in the context of most people.
I'm not sure if this is "detransitioning" in my case, but for the forseeable future I've stopped taking T. Why? Because right now my self-esteem is so low about my body and being on T made it worse. Because I hate how round and fat my face looked on T. I'm currently overweight and working on losing it, which hopefully after this baby (my second) is born I'll find it easier to get it off and leave it off since I have more support now and people willing to work out with me.
Once I'm in a better mental state when it comes to my body, and after top surgery, I'm going to try again I think. But at the same time, I LOVE how my face looks now. I know that if I'm still not happy after 6-12 months after T this next time I can stop and go back to a point I was happy with. I hate nearly everything about my body regardless of male or female, but I love my face. If I hate my face while on T, can I truly be happy with the rest of myself?
Quote from: Roll on November 26, 2017, 08:10:24 PM
I stumbled into this thread somehow, not really sure how, and read that link on a whim. It was not what I was expecting, and find myself torn between feeling the author has a good point on a few issues while at the same time feeling as though he has lost sight of the larger world due to his own experiences. Note that this reply isn't to the thread in general, but more specifically that article.
I'd wager the overwhelming majority of us do not find ourselves in anything resembling a cult scenario as described by the author of that piece. Quite the contrary, many of us live in areas actively hostile to transition. That the author found himself in such a circumstance speaks to a larger issue than transitioning regret, and says a lot about the author more than anything else.
Having said that, I do feel that he is right to warn people of being cautious about certain group think scenarios, even if I believe he said this in a very poor manner. Unfortunately, I do believe that the modern political movement built around identity, both sexual and gender, has gotten out of hand in some respects, and while is empowering to many can be stifling and destructive to some who are vulnerable to the influence of ideological demagogues. Yet at the same time, the author fails to own up to the fact that he is the one who joined a commune! If you are joining a commune, any sort of commune, you are expected to conform to a certain level of groupthink. That is how they survive, everyone must be on the same page. And it sounded like he was ripe to be taken advantage of, in ways well beyond transitioning. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that transitioning is such an extreme thing to fall into in such a way, he was doomed in some form from day one even if it wasn't the ideology he found himself a part of. (To put it another way, he seems like he's the kind of person who would join ISIS. And I'm not being facetious at all.)
So yeah, group think is bad. Conforming to peer pressure and letting it dictate your life is bad. It's certainly something to keep in mind when one makes life changing decisions. And while there are some issues to be aware of when it comes to the cultural politics of being trans(for instance, I do tend to share some of the same fears about the cis/trans divide), the trans aspect of his story is basically completely circumstantial, and it sounds as though he would have done almost anything to fit in, in whatever community he wound up in. One man's malleability, in an environment of conformation, does not invalidate hundreds or thousands of us who find ourselves fighting against conformity to our own respective environments in order to be who we are. In short: For him, trans was the easy path. For most of us, it's anything but. You could even say his argument about not being led astray by local goup think can be used in favor of transitioning when placed in the context of most people.
My take is similar- weak willed, unable to take personal responsibility for his choices and in need of serious long term therapy.
Quote from: Another Nikki on November 30, 2017, 06:57:07 PM
My take is similar- weak willed, unable to take personal responsibility for his choices and in need of serious long term therapy.
So easy to say as an Monday morning quarterback. I see the author as a model of inspiration, a strong willed person who faced with adversity and against tremendous odds, won a victory beyond human nature.
Quote from: Virginia on November 30, 2017, 09:02:15 PM
So easy to say as an Monday morning quarterback. I see the author as a model of inspiration, a strong willed person who faced with adversity and against tremendous odds, won a victory beyond human nature.
While I respect the fact that he overcame the conditioning he experienced, however it came to be, a model of inspiration doesn't say something like this:
Quote
"This leads me to believe that, by and large, trans is a disingenuous ideology that is a current mass hysteria. It is also clearly something of an unintentional eugenics program against gender nonconforming folk. "
He bases this belief on his own experience, which was an experience created by his own weakness--
regardless of if he overcame that weakness (which again, is commendable on its own). And it was also an experience that, quite simply, does not apply to the overwhelming majority of trans people.
He then goes on to say:
QuoteThere are infinitely better ways to deal with the universal experiences of dissatisfaction and desire to be someone else.
This is just flat out insulting... I don't want to be someone else, I want to be myself.
Again, I say this from the perspective of also taking issue with some of the politically charged aspects of the modern movements. I certainly don't defend the Marxist radical communes he found himself subject to (which for anyone who believes in them, I do not begrudge them that in the slightest, but I am a classical liberal at heart).
Reiterating the bottom line: His personal experiences in a situation of his own making does not invalidate countless other people's legitimate experiences. Respecting his ability to come back from that situation to a life he is happier and healthier in is all well and good, but his vitriol towards others disqualifies him from being a model of inspiration in my book.
i decided 11 years ago, THAT my living circumstances werent great, my life circumstances werent great, and didnt always hear the nagging voices enough so i decided to live my life as a boy or try to be fairly androgynous and also Asexual, which worked for sometime but its starting to work less and less, as im less preoccupied with other life crap now and the nagging is becoming more i think ...
11 years later, my living circumstances are a little better, my life circumstances maybe worse, but im working to improve that, and the nagging def gotten worse.... *sigh*
for me it is just that I keep finding ways to deny myself. I guess I need to trust myself. But I don't know really how to when everyone says I shouldn't even those who are lgbt say I am not real. Maybe it's my own little weird secret idk. But I am way too far deep in other issues to deal with this even though things have gotten better over the years I know it's just not a good time right now.
@ sneakersjay: IMHO detransitioning would seemingly be a more difficult and more life changing decision than transitioning in the first place.... it seems to me that it would be a mine field of emotional and relationship problems, not to mention the wear and tear on your physical body.
Hang in there girl.
Is it correct to assume that detransitioning means to actively reverse or hide the results of transitioning, even including undoing any reversible transitioning surgery, taking opposite hormone medicines, and reversing all associated changed-to gender behaviors?
This is contrasted to stopping the transitioning process, and if the original transitioning body changes revert "naturally", so be it?
Chrissy
there is only one reason why i detransitioned. it was that i was moving schools and i didn't want to be seen as a freak. but the fact is, being trans doesn't make me an outcast or a weirdo or anything; it makes me VERNY, and in pretending to not be myself i'm making myself an outcast, not from my community or group of friends but from my own mind, yknow? i'm glad i'm starting again, and over the next week, i should legally become a mr. life's a far cry from how it was over three years ago googling 'transgender' alone in my room. ;D
Hi Jay,
I can't speak to anyone else's situation but I am something of an expert on my own. I have chosen not to transition. There are several reasons, in approximate level of importance.
- I am happily married and believe transitioning would destroy my marriage.
- I've had a successful career, part of which is closely associated with being male (voiceover), and I'm not sure how I would make a living as a female.
- I'm 61 years old and feel that if I could make it this far, I should be able to get to the finish line with some help.
- If I were to present as female I would want to do so convincingly. I have my doubts how successful I would be at this point.
This being said, it's a struggle, but I think with some support medically and from a therapist, I can go on. I've never felt suicidal so it hasn't been a question of transition or die. If I were to reach that point I would transition and have told my wife that.
I also believe if I were a teenager or in my 20's today, I would likely transition. Back in the '70s information was hard to come by and acceptance was even more difficult than today.
Becky
@ BeckyCNJ: Very well stated. I can understand your reasoning for not transitioning given the personal reasons that you mentioned.
No pressure to answer but I am just wondering, do you cross-dress or do you sometimes operate in stealth mode? Does your wife know of any of this at all?
Wishing you good luck and happiness in your life path.
Quote from: BeckyCNJ on February 09, 2018, 03:24:48 PM
Hi Jay,
I can't speak to anyone else's situation but I am something of an expert on my own. I have chosen not to transition. There are several reasons, in approximate level of importance.
- I am happily married and believe transitioning would destroy my marriage.
- I've had a successful career, part of which is closely associated with being male (voiceover), and I'm not sure how I would make a living as a female.
- I'm 61 years old and feel that if I could make it this far, I should be able to get to the finish line with some help.
- If I were to present as female I would want to do so convincingly. I have my doubts how successful I would be at this point.
This being said, it's a struggle, but I think with some support medically and from a therapist, I can go on. I've never felt suicidal so it hasn't been a question of transition or die. If I were to reach that point I would transition and have told my wife that.
I also believe if I were a teenager or in my 20's today, I would likely transition. Back in the '70s information was hard to come by and acceptance was even more difficult than today.
Becky
Hi Becky,
Interesting post. I find it useful to use your criteria.
Quote
- I am happily married and believe transitioning would destroy my marriage.
Yes for me too until recently but being trans has put a strain on it. I'm on low dose E. If I continue my marriage will be over.
Quote
I've had a successful career, part of which is closely associated with being male (voiceover), and I'm not sure how I would make a living as a female.
My career doesn't really depend on being male. I'm not sure how it will go being transgender.
Quote
- I'm 61 years old and feel that if I could make it this far, I should be able to get to the finish line with some help.
I'm 55 and I really doubt I can get to the finish line as a man. This is haunting me too much.
Quote
- If I were to present as female I would want to do so convincingly. I have my doubts how successful I would be at this point.
Except for my hair, I feel I could be somewhat convincing. Even on low dose E, it's amazing the changes I've seen.
Quote
I've never felt suicidal so it hasn't been a question of transition or die.
Unfortunately I have many days where I wonder if I can go on. I don't know what's on the other side. Hopefully these feelings would go away if I transitioned but I may be just signing up for new problems.
Anyway, thanks for the exercise ;)
Take care,
Paige :)
Quote from: Aspiringperson on February 09, 2018, 03:41:44 PM
No pressure to answer but I am just wondering, do you cross-dress or do you sometimes operate in stealth mode? Does your wife know of any of this at all?
I do not cross-dress, but I would like to try in privacy and with the help of an understanding person. I certainly have worn women's clothing in the past but it was my mother's (when I was a kid) or my wife's and we were not the same size so it looked a bit clownish. Having no experience on what to do I was not happy enough with the results to go in public, except on Halloween. My wife does know I'm tg and she's supportive up to a point, but dressing as a woman probably would be going too far.
Thank you so much. I'm planning on coming out to my mum and she keeps trying to tell me trans people can't be happy. I needed this...
Quote from: rainification on February 11, 2018, 09:15:09 PM
Thank you so much. I'm planning on coming out to my mum and she keeps trying to tell me trans people can't be happy. I needed this...
I wasn't truly happy until I started transitioning, and didn't even know it. I think your mom has it backwards.
I'm currently in the "not transitioning" camp. I have only two reasons, the first being that I don't want to risk loosing what little family I have left just to make myself happy, the second is related to the first; if I transition and am not accepted I will have to leave where I live (or risk my aunt not being able to see her grandkids, assuming she stood by me, if only because of finances), causing the one person I care most about to loose their home. I can't do that, I would rather be miserable than make it so my aunt is unable to live in the home she has lived in almost her entire life.
I am however at the point where I am heavily considering transitioning, regardless of acceptance. I suppose I could learn to live with a grudging acceptance if I do.
(edited for spelling mistakes)
Quote from: rainification on February 11, 2018, 09:15:09 PM
Thank you so much. I'm planning on coming out to my mum and she keeps trying to tell me trans people can't be happy. I needed this...
My sister told me that!! So weird but I think they're struggling to accept that being transgender is real. Nothing worth having is easy.. and I know my sister is troubled in her own way so I'm shocked she of all people would comment about happiness honsetly
Quote from: Roll on February 11, 2018, 10:43:06 PM
I wasn't truly happy until I started transitioning, and didn't even know it. I think your mom has it backwards.
Exactly!!
Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk
Hi, first of all I would like to excuse myself if I do not speak correctly or if some sentences seem odd to you, I am not English but I will try to do my best to be as fluid as possible using google translation.
What prevents me from transitioning is that first of all, gender dysphoria literally destroyed my inner be, I take it responsible for my poor condition.
I was 23 at the time (I am now 35), I had had a difficult begin in life, suffered agoraphobia, anxiety attacks with derealisation, violence when I was a child and absence of father among other. My brother was a schizophrenic and way latter he committed suicide, but at this time he was still alive and his disease was affecting me because I wanted him healed, but this would never happens. I was like you know, a Picasso painting, but thanks to my efforts I was about to win the battle against all this >-bleeped-<. I had a German Shepherd at the time which helped me going out and defeat my anxiety and I consequently met a girl which wanted to make her life with me, a pretty blond girl. But while I was seeing the end of the tunnel, dysphoria unveiled itself. It was like a curse, as if someone or something was plotting my destruction. At the beginning, I was not questioning much myself about it, I thought I had discovered the source of all my problems, I was simply in the wrong body and that explained everything. As the time passed, I was feminizing my appearance and she finally told me I was not a man. She left me soon after 3 years and a half and Dysphoria had all the space to develop itself, and that is what it did. It gently isolated me from others, even from my mom from who I was fleeing discussions. I began to buy girls clothes and to look at me in the mirror, more and more, and it became like a vicious circle. I was constantly trying to become more feminine. Is it that the way girls are ?
Whereas I had always seeked out for freedom I had become the subject of a mirror.
"Despite all my efforts to feminize myself, I still look as a man... It is so sad ! My hair line begins to recede. Should I take hormones ? I should take a decision fastly because it's going to be worst and worst..."
Then I began to convince myself I was trans. You know, I was like "I did not like playing football when I was a child" kind of arguments. But it did not work for I am too honest with myself for that.
After that, I began the yoyo of denial (bodybuilding, beard,...) but I never took a firm decision (I mean, irrevocable decision) about me transitioning or not.
My dysphoria, I call it the worm because I see it as something inside me trying to take control of my brain. Who's the real me ? The worm ? Or the guy I was before all this happened ? I don't know. How could this has been hidden from me for so long ?
I think for me transitioning would be an error, because it would trap myself into insatiable search for feminity which would lead me to many surgeries. And all this for what ? My body is altering as time goes, nothing can stop it.
I don't want transitioning because I would just like to have a normal life, because I am tired now and I don't want anymore fighting in my life.
I am not telling trans people doesn't exists, I know trans exists but I think that for me, it is not real gender dysphoria. I think real trans people does not need to convince themselves they are trans.
Regarding Walt Heyer, I have read many articles he wrote and it's clear the reason of him detransitioning was his son had denied him.
Not true. Walt Heyer was never trans. He had a split personality, lied to doctors and even in midst of his surgery wanted live as a man still and chase his two other identities. He's bitter, he was never trans or non binary.. he had a difficult mental illness and is taking it out on other people now
Quote from: questi0n on February 25, 2018, 08:52:12 AM
Hi, first of all I would like to excuse myself if I do not speak correctly or if some sentences seem odd to you, I am not English but I will try to do my best to be as fluid as possible using google translation.
What prevents me from transitioning is that first of all, gender dysphoria literally destroyed my inner be, I take it responsible for my poor condition.
I was 23 at the time (I am now 35), I had had a difficult begin in life, suffered agoraphobia, anxiety attacks with derealisation, violence when I was a child and absence of father among other. My brother was a schizophrenic and way latter he committed suicide, but at this time he was still alive and his disease was affecting me because I wanted him healed, but this would never happens. I was like you know, a Picasso painting, but thanks to my efforts I was about to win the battle against all this >-bleeped-<. I had a German Shepherd at the time which helped me going out and defeat my anxiety and I consequently met a girl which wanted to make her life with me, a pretty blond girl. But while I was seeing the end of the tunnel, dysphoria unveiled itself. It was like a curse, as if someone or something was plotting my destruction. At the beginning, I was not questioning much myself about it, I thought I had discovered the source of all my problems, I was simply in the wrong body and that explained everything. As the time passed, I was feminizing my appearance and she finally told me I was not a man. She left me soon after 3 years and a half and Dysphoria had all the space to develop itself, and that is what it did. It gently isolated me from others, even from my mom from who I was fleeing discussions. I began to buy girls clothes and to look at me in the mirror, more and more, and it became like a vicious circle. I was constantly trying to become more feminine. Is it that the way girls are ?
Whereas I had always seeked out for freedom I had become the subject of a mirror.
"Despite all my efforts to feminize myself, I still look as a man... It is so sad ! My hair line begins to recede. Should I take hormones ? I should take a decision fastly because it's going to be worst and worst..."
Then I began to convince myself I was trans. You know, I was like "I did not like playing football when I was a child" kind of arguments. But it did not work for I am too honest with myself for that.
After that, I began the yoyo of denial (bodybuilding, beard,...) but I never took a firm decision (I mean, irrevocable decision) about me transitioning or not.
My dysphoria, I call it the worm because I see it as something inside me trying to take control of my brain. Who's the real me ? The worm ? Or the guy I was before all this happened ? I don't know. How could this has been hidden from me for so long ?
I think for me transitioning would be an error, because it would trap myself into insatiable search for feminity which would lead me to many surgeries. And all this for what ? My body is altering as time goes, nothing can stop it.
I don't want transitioning because I would just like to have a normal life, because I am tired now and I don't want anymore fighting in my life.
I am not telling trans people doesn't exists, I know trans exists but I think that for me, it is not real gender dysphoria. I think real trans people does not need to convince themselves they are trans.
Regarding Walt Heyer, I have read many articles he wrote and it's clear the reason of him detransitioning was his son had denied him.
I deeply respect your decision. And I know how hard it is to decide not to transition as well as what sounds to me as sufferring?
If I can share about "feminizing" slippery slope. Yes, it is a reality for many (or most) and an issue. I know I struggle with patience on hrt because I want results.
Well my point is, I had an incident where my nose fixed itself. Yes, I know that sounds crazy and impossible. But not going into all the details, my nose instantly became more feminine and I can breath better.
I don't want to mislead anyone, but I do feel this is a miracle in all my life. Also, if you never had surgery (I'm assuming) how would you know know what it's like? This random incident that happened to me definitely isn't surgery. But the outcome is similar and I can see how affirming surgery can be. I mean I can't but I can.
Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk
Some people have no money to transition or their gender identity is too fluid to transition.
I know a person who identifies as genderqueer and calls themselves a transgenderist. They clearly state that they are not transsexual. They identify with the transgender umbrella.
The person I'm talking about is from 1949 and turned 69 years old recently.
They are AMAB and dress as a woman with wigs, breast forms and make-up. Even nail polish and they go by a female name. They told me that they are not gender dysphoric though.
The person refers to themselves as a man living as a woman.
They live like that every day and started when they were 55.
They crossdressed privately since they were 30 years old and started dressing publicly when they were mid 50s. They are married to a woman and the person is bisexual.
She sleeps with men with consent of her wife ( she uses she and they pronouns ).
She is also director from a transgender support group.
She looks like a man in woman's clothes but is very happy to live as herself and that is what counts in my opinion.
I am interested in this discussion as I am a newly "minted" transgender. I am taking steps to become more feminine. One thing that my therapist said that I remember, is that it is a continuum, not black and white. It seems many detransitioners were under the mistaken belief they were 100% the other sex. I take this thread as a warning. Only go as far as you "have to".
Quote from: amandam on February 25, 2018, 11:55:49 AM
I am interested in this discussion as I am a newly "minted" transgender. I am taking steps to become more feminine. One thing that my therapist said that I remember, is that it is a continuum, not black and white. It seems many detransitioners were under the mistaken belief they were 100% the other sex. I take this thread as a warning. Only go as far as you "have to".
Most detransitioners detransition because they can't deal with the stigmatization that comes with being trans. Many detransitioners transition again many years later.
It's very rare for someone to detransition because they were mistaken about being trans.
SRS is not done on a whim. It's VERY serious business. You also need two letters and a year of HRT. It's not like you wake up with different body parts in a matter of days.
As long as you have not had SRS almost everything is reversible.
FFS doesn't require psych letters. It can also be sought by cis men.
Hormones only have fertility and breast growth as permanent effects, all the rest reverses.
BA is not that big of a deal either. Is a minor outpatient surgery.
Aside of SRS and orchiectomy nothing is irreversible in a transition.
You hear a lot of scaremongering on trans forums and what is remarkable is that it usually is people with a " transer than thou " mentality who try to scare the rest away from transition to make the rest sound less trans and to make themselves sound more trans.
I am non-op MtF, binary girl, straight and have decided to not undergo genital surgeries apart from an orchiectomy.
I'm on a low dose of HRT and only plan on FFS and BA, aside of an orchie. Even if SRS were free I would still not want it. And I consider myself transsexual very much, not just transgender.
People identify as how they see fit. There shouldn't be so much gatekeeping on someone's gender identity. A psychiatrist can guide you but can't give you the answers. They guide you to the answers within yourself.
Also remarkable is that it's usually older transitioners trying to gatekeep the younger ones under us. And then even more remarkable is that if asked, these older transitioners who try to gatekeep the younger ones, often wish they could have transitioned earlier themselves. Isn't that a contradiction? Me thinks so.
Apart from SRS and puberty blockers for trans kids, there shouldn't be so much gatekeeping on reversible procedures like HRT, FFS, BA.
A diabetic person doesn't have to pass a psychiatric exam either before getting access to insulin. So why should we? As far as I know being trans is also a hormonal disorder and not a mental one.
That's why modern countries have the informed consent model now.
The Ray Blanchard days are over.
I have two big reasons. First one is that I am married to a ciswoman. She knows about my identity but after we tapked I felt like something in me was dying. I couldn't bear to see her in pain and see our life be torn appart. So for now I have tried to look as femm as possible without going through any treatment. The other reason is my mom she once found out I slept with a man as a "CD" and the shock was so great it cut off her period and threw herself into the ground to cry. I feel like leaving my partner and living full-time as a woman would kill her, I really do.
im not transition cause im studying and the cost of university is expensive... plus a have some doudts about the social stress that transition could mean
i dont want to think in detransition stuff... yes is a option that is there but not thanks .
fist i want be secure about transition if i do it, there is no way back
Quote from: Ely-chan on March 23, 2018, 03:34:32 PM
im not transition cause im studying and the cost of university is expensive... plus a have some doudts about the social stress that transition could mean
i dont want to think in detransition stuff... yes is a option that is there but not thanks .
fist i want be secure about transition if i do it, there is no way back
In the future, you can come here to the US were the treatment is affordable and there is community here. Also actually in Argentina you could also get treatment paid by the state.
Quote from: Lilith.lupe.tamayo on March 28, 2018, 12:48:22 PM
In the future, you can come here to the US were the treatment is affordable and there is community here. Also actually in Argentina you could also get treatment paid by the state.
O//////O sound awesome
i should think it about
Despite horrible gender dysphoria, I am not transitioning right now because it will destroy my marriage and relationships that I so very dear to me ~ it sucks because I am truly a woman trapped in a man's body
I always wondered why someone would choose to detransition, since that's all I've been wanting is to transition myself.
Saying that, I've only considered delaying medical transitioning to go through a pregnancy (I've always wanted to carry a child), but got to the point where my fiancee and I were pushing a child farther and farther into the near future and I couldn't stand not being on HRT much longer. I figured that, with the way our lives were leaning, I'd miss out on something very important to me, but transitioning was way more pressing, and, as long as a baby happens, I don't really care how.
The way I see it to, once I start HRT, there's no going back and I'll be on it the rest of my life - but, being a type 1 diabetic, I'm very used to 24/7 medications soooo.... :laugh:
I may consider detransition if I don't feel that I pass well enough after a few years.
Quote from: cartowheel on April 03, 2018, 06:59:59 PM
I always wondered why someone would choose to detransition, since that's all I've been wanting is to transition myself.
Saying that, I've only considered delaying medical transitioning to go through a pregnancy (I've always wanted to carry a child), but got to the point where my fiancee and I were pushing a child farther and farther into the near future and I couldn't stand not being on HRT much longer. I figured that, with the way our lives were leaning, I'd miss out on something very important to me, but transitioning was way more pressing, and, as long as a baby happens, I don't really care how.
The way I see it to, once I start HRT, there's no going back and I'll be on it the rest of my life - but, being a type 1 diabetic, I'm very used to 24/7 medications soooo.... :laugh:
Whats the saying? be careful what you wish for, you might just get it lol. Not to scare you but transition honestly is not for most people. medically is generally not focused on transition too. Just as a last ditch end result. The goal is to treat the dysphoria, not transition. If treating the dysphoria fails then making the transition becomes a option.
There is good reasons for this. When john hopkins shut down it's gender reassignment clinic. there was 2 reasons, 1) they estimated 70%-80% of youths outgrow transgenderism and it wears off.
2) SRS while most people were happy with the physical end results, they found it to be of no help to physiological problems it tried to address.
I want to transition myself. But I won't. While I could do so. The costs not talking money here. Would be to unbearable for me.
Quote from: Ashley0808 on April 04, 2018, 08:02:52 PM
Whats the saying? be careful what you wish for, you might just get it lol. Not to scare you but transition honestly is not for most people. medically is generally not focused on transition too. Just as a last ditch end result. The goal is to treat the dysphoria, not transition. If treating the dysphoria fails then making the transition becomes a option.
There is good reasons for this. When john hopkins shut down it's gender reassignment clinic. there was 2 reasons, 1) they estimated 70%-80% of youths outgrow transgenderism and it wears off.
2) SRS while most people were happy with the physical end results, they found it to be of no help to physiological problems it tried to address.
I want to transition myself. But I won't. While I could do so. The costs not talking money here. Would be to unbearable for me.
Closing down the John Hopkins program was based on false information and if you check, the program is back in operation under new management.
1. Yes children may have their gender flip and that's the reason treatment is normally limited to therapy and blockers. Estrogen and Testosterone are normally not started until the late teens when the gender should be stable. The lack of treatment for somebody who is transgender is inhuman. Until a child's gender can be determined, it's best to monitor them so any difficulty can be handled.
2. A properly monitor transition results in a less that 3% dissatisfaction number. While it's true not everybody passes, it's possible to reach a point where passing isn't important. This is a far better state of mind because nobody remains stealth forever so if your outed it's not the setback that breaking stealth would be.
Dena beat me to it--all the numbers I've seen for people who detransition are between 2-4%.
Some people transition again after detransitioning. I'd imagine that some may detransition due to social or external factors, rather than not being trans, too.
Quote from: Dena on April 04, 2018, 11:11:44 PM
Closing down the John Hopkins program was based on false information and if you check, the program is back in operation under new management.
1. Yes children may have their gender flip and that's the reason treatment is normally limited to therapy and blockers. Estrogen and Testosterone are normally not started until the late teens when the gender should be stable. The lack of treatment for somebody who is transgender is inhuman. Until a child's gender can be determined, it's best to monitor them so any difficulty can be handled.
2. A properly monitor transition results in a less that 3% dissatisfaction number. While it's true not everybody passes, it's possible to reach a point where passing isn't important. This is a far better state of mind because nobody remains stealth forever so if your outed it's not the setback that breaking stealth would be.
That is correct. John Hopkins said the same thing when it closed down the first time. Leaving out he said/she said arguments. Hopkins official reasoning for the close down was when they followed up on the patients over the years. They found that while people were satisfied with surgery. It didn't resolve the physiological problems.
Real life example that is non lgbt is Jocelyn Wildenstein. She was beautiful before her first cosmetic surgery and she didn't stop and made a real mess of her face. When asked she says she doesn't believe she has a addiction to surgery and adamantly denies there being a problem.
You don't need to read anything about her, just looking at the pictures screams that she has problems with her mental health the surgery didn't fix a thing for her but she claims she is satisfied when asked.
Well... I believe I might be at the cusp of it, so pardon my rambling, if this gets rambly, as I recently started considering detransitioning. Very recently. I'm not entirely sure if I will yet or not, cause well I've been living as a man for the past 9 years, so it's not something I can easily toss aside and I'm still working on understanding my own feelings, but I do feel more and more like a woman, that I might want to go back to living as one and I'm re-connecting more to whatever remains of my birth sex features. But then as to what I may or may not want to try to medically revert in terms of transitional changes, I really don't know yet.
My reasons for considering detransition do not impede on any scientific evidence of that transitioning is generally a good thing for trans people; they are personal, and I seem to be one of few who actually, genuinely thought I was trans but turns out I wasn't.
I was an adult when I came out as trans and pursued transition, but very barely, at age 19, and also very traumatised and with a split personality since childhood, that I chose to hide from the gender therapists. I discovered being trans very soon after having been raped and then gone through an abusive relationship. I started taking T via black market at age 21, and got it legally prescribed by endo at age 24. I'm 29 now. In total I've been on T for almost 6 years and had top surgery 4 years ago. So, quite a lot of permanent changes by now, but I can still pass well as a woman. I was planning on getting SRS, had been approved by a surgeon and got on a waiting list for it, but then changed my mind in all good time. For that I'm very glad.
In general that did always feel right and good to be transitioning and passing more and more as a man, but there was always something nagging at me about it, and a lot that didn't make a lot of sense or was off. But I didn't dare to look into if I could have been wrong about being trans cause the more time that passed on T the harder it would be to go back, and the more scared I got of that possibility. I simply didn't want to know.
But then I had a switch with my alter, for the first time in many years as that generally happens very rarely, just a few days ago, and she took something with her up from the depths of me when we switched: reverse dysphoria. Or I don't know if that's a term or if I just invented it, but what I mean is that I basically got dysphoric over looking like a man, and virtually panicked over my reflection. After that I knew I had to find out more so went digging in my mind. And found out that most likely all of my original dysphoria was just body dysmorphia from the traumatic sexual assault I had been through in my childhood and teens, which had of course caused the personality split. That so conveniently targeted my chest and genitals, and gave me a subtly sexistic view on men and women, in favour of men, which made me think I was trans. Upon realising, it clicked in me. That deep wanting to embrace my femaleness that I had been pushing away subconsciously due to the trauma that made me hate my body.
I'm not diagnosed with DID due to not having spoken up about my issues to any therapists yet, but because I barely have any amnesia I've been very aware. And with that I'm guessing I could likely have DDNOS/OSDD which is kind of a variant of DID.
Realising all of that yesterday, I'm still in shock, but trying to just... idk, playfully explore things and try not to worry too much of what might be ahead. But of course I couldn't help but finding my way to this part of this forum. So far I've shaved a lot, been experimenting with clothes and makeup cause luckily I saved a lot of that stuff from my past and acquired some new on the way, looked into a new female name, and having the only friend of mine who knows this yet use female pronouns and terms for me to help me test it out. So far it feels good and comforting, but I also have moments of total confusion. I know that deep inside I fear the future though.
So in short, my reason is sex characteristics focused dysmorphia brought on by trauma, that I mistook for gender dysphoria. So I guess I'm really just a traumatised woman who thought she was a man for 9 years. And I should have known but I didn't. But I suspected it more than I wanted to admit. I don't blame anyone, except possibly myself for lying to therapists about my trauma and its aftermaths. But then I also did what I thought I had to do at that time. It has nothing to do with other people actually being trans and needing to transition, and living happily ever after with that. You do you, kinda. But I'm sure I'll always support trans people and their journeys, regardless. So I'll probably stick around here for a while longer, in some corner or another, giving my friendly feedback on stuff I know.
Yeah, I will definitely talk to my therapist about this stuff and start looking into some trauma therapy, when she's back from her vacation. Don't know if I should contact the gender clinic too maybe. And no, I haven't changed my profile pic or other info here yet, or on any other social media. I need to test my waters mostly in secrecy at this very early point, before I make any definite decisions. It's pretty big, after all.
Oh and yeah, it's likely that my trauma issues felt very similar to gender dysphoria due to the nature of them, but it's not the same thing. I may have temporarily treated the symptoms of some of my trauma by transitioning, but the root of it is still festering at the core, causing more and other problems. On that point it's very different from actual gender dysphoria. I don't think they should be treated the same. I read through a bit of what was said already in this thread, on the first page at least, and couldn't help but notice there was some focus on trauma and sexual abuse. I'm not an expert but I've read up a lot and lived through a lot, and I don't think transsexualism and abuse are really all that connected and I think that they should be treated as separate issues. Also for those who deal with both. Now I need to sleep and see if I can muster going swimming in "guy mode" tomorrow. I really should look into getting a women's swim suit of some kind... I don't wanna slack on my exercise.
SeptagonScars. interesting how you have figured out so much about yourself and now want to see a therapist for help. Since you had top surgery are you finding it harder to look feminine on top in clothes now?
Quote from: mm on July 03, 2018, 02:16:29 PM
SeptagonScars. interesting how you have figured out so much about yourself and now want to see a therapist for help. Since you had top surgery are you finding it harder to look feminine on top in clothes now?
I seem to have a knack for going randomly exploring in my mind as I pick up on random signals it "sends" me, like memories suddenly getting new meanings or I get new feelings about old things. And I'm too curious to stay away so I dig in. Ask myself questions and let my thoughts and feelings run unhindered as I write it all down to stay on track. Sometimes I reach in very deep by doing simply that, and it can be very shocking what I find out about myself. It does cause strong physical reactions as well. But I've learned it always has been rewarding in the end with getting to know myself better and connecting to myself. I've been doing those kind of explorations since my teens or so, so I've found quite a lot over the years. But it wasn't until this year that I let go of more of the barriers in my mind and it let me reach deeper than ever. It's sort of been like an "alternative" to actual therapy for me. Certainly not bad, but also not enough for healing. So it's not therapy itself that I've been averse to, but that I can't trust therapists.
I should have talked to a therapist about this stuff already a very long time ago, but I think I'm at a point now where I just really really have to. Realising I've been transitioning and done permanent changes to my body due to the trauma and not due to being trans, is a heavy hit in my face and a clear sign that I'm not exactly coping as well as I thought. And also I'm all out of excuses to not talk to my therapist about it... whether I trust her or not, I'm gonna have to chance on that.
About the top surgery, well a bit difficult to look feminine but it could be worse. It's a little tricky to get a padded bra to sit where it's supposed to and look natural when having nothing to work with underneath it, and also getting it to stay put somehow and not rise up or shift around too much, preferably without killing my ribs in the process. But also it seems my mind remembers rather well where my pre-op tits used to be, so I can work with that brain map. Then also I'm a bit annoyed by that I can't show any cleavage what so ever. That's likely gonna bother me more over time cause I've always liked to show off my body and be sexual with my appearance. But other than that I'm lucky my body is still curvy and feminine otherwise so I don't think the chest has to be perfect for my over all appearance to be read as female and be "okay'd."
I do feel comforted just having a padded bra on. Even though it's not ideal, it's okay for now this early on. It's a nice reminder of what I miss. I might look into an augmentation later on, but I think I need to look into my trauma first before jumping into any kind of surgery again... I'm basically gonna have to learn to stop panicking over my own body cause it keeps triggering my memories of the trauma.
But actually I'm struggling a lot more with my beard shadow and stubble, honestly. I'm not used to that and didn't think it would be quite so obvious and intense to deal with, but I'm sure I'll find ways to manage that too, eventually.