Why are many people unaccepting of transsexual people? Why is it that many people think we need to somehow "fix ourselves" so our gender conforms to the biological sex assigned to us at the time of our birth? They must be thinking we are doing something wrong.
We just want to live our lives in our correct gender and bodies, expressing ourselves in our correct gender. What is so wrong about that?
Just ask these unaccepting people if they were forced to live their lives in the incorrect gender for them, could they even imagine that? Of course not. So why are they thinking we should be living our lives in the incorrect gender for us?
Chrissy
Perspective. They don't experience this therefore it can't affect any "normal" person.
For whatever reason, right or wrong, they feel threatened.
It should make no difference to anyone whether we are trans or not, unless a trans person is involved in a close personal relationship. Then, and only then, being up front and completely honest is absolutely essential.
It's multiple things, a fair amount of it is fear of the unknown.
I'm prefacing what I'm about to say by noting that I am not a professional psychologist, but I am an amateur psychologist.
In psychology there is a concept called "need for cognitive closure" which basically means that we need answers to questions about the world around us. We all have a certain level of this need, but for some people it is cranked up to a very high level. People like this will take the first explanation they find that comports with what they've already learned, and will not change their minds no matter how much evidence there is. People who exhibit bigoted behavior tend to score very high on need for cognitive closure measurements. Organized religions offer easy answers to life's questions, so these people tend to be very attracted to religions, most of which are anti-LGBT.
For some people they simply can't understand why you would want to change your body. They find the idea of a feminine AFAB taking testosterone and masculinizing to seem wrong, the same for an AMAB individual feminizing. Though what's interesting is that that very discomfort is our dysphoria.
For some it's a challenge to their sense of identity, this is common amongst TERFs.
There's also some status anxiety, the idea that a group they consider subhuman being thought of as equals feels like a loss for them. These are the people who really really have to defend calling us "abnormal"
I'm sure there are others, but these are the main ones I see as I masochistically read comment threads on trans related news articles.
Chrissy, I love your questions.
The first answer that comes to my mind is that they are unaccepting of trans people because of whatever they learned about trans people ... which means that we have some re-education to do, if they're open to it.
I chose to live a peaceful normal life in Bangkok where being whatever is accepted. That being said there are always groups that hate another group be it tgs, immigrants, rich people, etc. So we are just normal. Alot has to do with religion, we are buddhist and it is not a religion but a way of life. If someone does not harm us then live and let live. Compared to many Western countries where deep hated for us is rooted in the Christian, Judism and Islam faiths. Also, in Thailand we may not have the laws that protect us but we have the support of the majority in society. We achieved this through consideration and respect and winning their hearts through doing good deeds an example that could be followed by a very agressive and demanding tg commity in the west. Agression breeds agression and hate, kindness and consideration wins friends and support
I think it depends on the person...different people are unaccepting for different reasons:
1) "It's a sin" - there are some people who just think it's morally wrong to be transgender because God said so. Even if in fact their God didn't say so.
2) "I'm embarrassed being around you" - there's a lot of people who think it doesn't look good to be associated with transgender people for either social or commercial reasons.
3) "I'm not comfortable being around you" - other people just feel weirded out being around transgender people because they are not comfortable with "alternative lifestyles" in general. (I think this is different from #2, but it's very similar.)
4) "You transitioning just makes me sad / mad" - this particularly applies to family members (especially parents) who don't want the transitioner's birth gender to disappear because of emotional attachment reasons.
5) "I like making fun of persecuted people." - These are the jerks who just love taunting people because they can.
6) "I get political power by appearing to persecute transgender people." - Basically applies to politicians trying to appeal to the above five groups of people.
7) "This wasn't the marriage / long-term relationship I signed up for." - Applies to spouses / partners.
I think that covers the vast majority of cases. Any others?
Because
1) there uneducated about the topic.
2) there closed minded about it.
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I do know that some non-trans females think that we as mtfs enjoyed male privilege while stuck in the male life, and although we are women, we lived as males with that privilege. That does not sit well with some non-trans feminists. I can understand that perspective. Even if we say we never wanted that privilege, nor consciously exploited it, it was given to us in most societies.
However, I wish these cis-feminists would be more accepting. But I wish everyone was more accepting of us transsexual people.
Chrissy
You all have made some good points. Thank you for sharing them.
There will be more posted soon by others, as we have lots of bright and thoughtful women here.
Chrissy
Quote from: ChrissyRyan on December 17, 2018, 09:32:56 PM
I do know that some non-trans females think that we as mtfs enjoyed male privilege while stuck in the male life, and although we are women, we lived as males with that privilege. That does not sit well with some non-trans feminists. I can understand that perspective. Even if we say we never wanted that privilege, nor consciously exploited it, it was given to us in most societies.
However, I wish these cis-feminists would be more accepting. But I wish everyone was more accepting of transsexual people.
Chrissy
Yeah - I don't understand that one at all - why would you shun people who are embracing the positivity of being a woman? You see the same attitude of not accepting transgender women among some lesbians. (Side note...part of the reason my mom doesn't think it's a good idea for me to transition is because she thinks being a woman in society stinks, and she thinks I don't really understand that.)
I think at the end of the day, there are a lot of people who like to judge others, and those judging types get emotional value from forming tight tribes and deciding who is and who isn't fit to join the tribe.
Sarah
Lots of good reasons so far.
One reason that I don't think has been mentioned above, is that some people are deeply unhappy with themself.
This may be "psychobabble", but I think seeing a transgender person challenges their own gender identity too much and it is easier to lash out at the person who is "living the dream" than to face their own internal issues.
~Dee.
I think that some people are unaccepting because they think that we as mtf transsexuals must have some severe mental illness, as they believe that there is something very wrong or abnormal when someone born with male genitalia thinks "he" is woman. Or the other way around for ftms.
So in their minds, it is best to shun us or even criticize us transsexuals.
Chrissy
Chrissy, Thank you for asking the toughest questions. There is no simple answer though sadly. We're hated for several reasons. Most of them involve outdated models of thinking. Some involve Religion and being taught anything outside the gray box of normal is just plain wrong. This stupid box was created by people because of fear. The problem though is if everyone thought along those lines the world would not be what it is today. It's the outside of the box thinkers that have lead the way making the world we now have come to enjoy.
Lisa
Quote from: sarahc on December 17, 2018, 09:41:40 PM
Yeah - I don't understand that one at all - why would you shun people who are embracing the positivity of being a woman? You see the same attitude of not accepting transgender women among some lesbians. (Side note...part of the reason my mom doesn't think it's a good idea for me to transition is because she thinks being a woman in society stinks, and she thinks I don't really understand that.)
I think at the end of the day, there are a lot of people who like to judge others, and those judging types get emotional value from forming tight tribes and deciding who is and who isn't fit to join the tribe.
Sarah
Well, yes, we are embracing womanhood but that does not give us mtfs a "get out of jail card" from some non-trans feminists as we as mtfs did or still are living our lives as men and have the benefits of male privilege. I understand this perspective but it cannot be fully appreciated unless you or I are on the other side (living as a women full time) and have experienced some of the consequences of living in a society with male privilege in force.
These consequences may be what your mother is referring to.
I do think it is important to listen and try to understand the perspective of others, as it can build common ground and helps one appreciate diversity of thought, which is quite important. You do not have to totally agree of course with these other perspectives but you keep an open mind and this can lead to some insights.
Chrissy
Quote from: warlockmaker on December 17, 2018, 09:19:11 PM
I chose to live a peaceful normal life in Bangkok where being whatever is accepted. That being said there are always groups that hate another group be it tgs, immigrants, rich people, etc. So we are just normal. Alot has to do with religion, we are buddhist and it is not a religion but a way of life. If someone does not harm us then live and let live. Compared to many Western countries where deep hated for us is rooted in the Christian, Judism and Islam faiths. Also, in Thailand we may not have the laws that protect us but we have the support of the majority in society. We achieved this through consideration and respect and winning their hearts through doing good deeds an example that could be followed by a very agressive and demanding tg commity in the west. Agression breeds agression and hate, kindness and consideration wins friends and support
I have personally travelled extensively in Asian countries including Thailand. I think any typical Westener of european descent(like me) can benefit greatly by living for some time in Asia, particularly Buddhist countries.
I really do think a lot of damage has been done to our transgender image by aggressive activists pushing their world revolves around me agendas.
The vast majority of us are just normal people doing the best we can with the cards we got dealt. IE misaligned gender.
I cant help but agree with Warlockmakers sentiment.
Kind regards, Kirsten.
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"Why are many people unaccepting of transsexual people?"
I really don't think they are. Most people accept us just fine. Are you sure you aren't experiencing the societal conditioning that teaches us that only bad news IS news?
Hugs, Devlyn
Quote from: ChrissyRyan on December 18, 2018, 01:05:11 AM
Well, yes, we are embracing womanhood but that does not give us mtfs a "get out of jail card" from some non-trans feminists as we as mtfs did or still are living our lives as men and have the benefits of male privilege. I understand this perspective but it cannot be fully appreciated unless you or I are on the other side (living as a women full time) and have experienced some of the consequences of living in a society with male privilege in force.
These consequences may be what your mother is referring to.
I do think it is important to listen and try to understand the perspective of others, as it can build common ground and helps one appreciate diversity of thought, which is quite important. You do not have to totally agree of course with these other perspectives but you keep an open mind and this can lead to some insights.
Chrissy
You're completely right, Chrissy. We really don't understand what women have gone through until we walk many moons in their shoes. And I think we should be humble.
Sarah
Quote from: ChrissyRyan on December 17, 2018, 08:57:19 PM
Why are many people unaccepting of transsexual people? Why is it that many people think we need to somehow "fix ourselves" so our gender conforms to the biological sex assigned to us at the time of our birth? They must be thinking we are doing something wrong.
We just want to live our lives in our correct gender and bodies, expressing ourselves in our correct gender. What is so wrong about that?
Just ask these unaccepting people if they were forced to live their lives in the incorrect gender for them, could they even imagine that? Of course not. So why are they thinking we should be living our lives in the incorrect gender for us?
Chrissy
It scares the living ... out of themselves - it would force them to look at themselves but for many folks this is the very last thing they want to do. You can take a person to catharsis, but you cannot make them like/want it! :) .
don't worry about it. let it pass through you and be gone... I am reminded of a litany by (often misogynist imho) Frank Herbert in the book Dune by the Bene Gesserit sisterhood:
"I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain."
This is easy if you've learned Jacobson Relaxation technique.
Some folks are like that and hold on to their fears fervently.
Let it/them go.
People have assumptions of what a man and woman are. It' somewhat based on looks, but not always... I think my crooked nose, sloped forehead, curly/frizzy short hair, height, large frame, and voice all combined gives people a reason to feel a need to say I'm a "man".
Some will see me as a crossdresser or trans.
I never had male privilege either. I think I just experience queer and now trans discrimination.
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Quote from: Allison S on December 18, 2018, 12:18:17 PM
I never had male privilege either. I think I just experience queer and now trans discrimination.
^ This
My "Privilege" card was revoked in kindergarten. The relentless bullying and abuse I had to endure, I would think should track well with other women who are fighting the same system which abused me... I know, OP, that you are merely trying to see the other side and be tolerant of the RF's who would seek to pin us back into those boxes made for us by our common "enemy". I simply can't see how doing the work of the patriarchy for them is somehow "Feminist"
I know a few 3rd wave feminists who have tried to reason with the 4th... And they are attacked too just for trying to point out their view. Anti-productive to the cause all the way around if you ask me.
Just my two cents. For whatever they are worth.
What seems to have worked for me...at least the past 10 years is I don't care what people think, I don't try to conform to what people think I should be, I don't parade around who I am, nor do I try to educate people.
If people cannot accept me as I am, screw them.
Thank you all for sharing. :)
I hope the day is going well for each of you.
Chrissy
Quote from: Nina on December 18, 2018, 01:00:22 PM
What seems to have worked for me...at least the past 10 years is I don't care what people think,
Hi Nina,
I so wish I could do this. Did you have a hard time doing this at first?
Quote from: Allison S on December 18, 2018, 12:18:17 PM
I never had male privilege either. I think I just experience queer and now trans discrimination.
I really agree with you about male privilege. It's really hard to take advantage of this when you're depressed and anxious your whole life because your body is wrong.
Paige :)
We're the last people it's OK to hate
Quote from: Devlyn on December 18, 2018, 03:38:45 AM
"Why are many people unaccepting of transsexual people?"
I really don't think they are. Most people accept us just fine. Are you sure you aren't experiencing the societal conditioning that teaches us that only bad news IS news?
Hugs, Devlyn
Devlyn,
I am glad that you have experienced a nicer, accepting population!
Chrissy
Quote from: Paige on December 18, 2018, 03:27:23 PM
Hi Nina,
I so wish I could do this. Did you have a hard time doing this at first?
Hi Paige
I don't know why, but I never had a challenge transitioning. Early on in my transition, I had often heard from those who had transitioned that I needed to follow their roadmap for transition. I've never believed in following others. I did lots of research online about lots of topics and came to my own conclusions.
My therapist said, and I still believe, hormones don't make you a woman. So I believed early on not to expect miracles from HRT. What I believed from therapist, is she said living full time as Nina, gaining experience is what would help me.
As each passing day, I learned to look at people in the eye, not look at the ground, and smile a lot. The more I did this, the happier I was when met with a smile. I never felt ashamed of who I was. Sure, I always felt people were judging me, but hey, take a walk through WalMart or grocery store...people are in sweatpants, no makeup, etc.
My therapist, as well as others said I needed to get my voice right. I went to half a dozen sessions with a voice therapist. I found the work hard, it felt fake, and I quit.
Year two of transition was my breakthrough. No longer did I see my former self in the mirror. I saw Nina. I reminded myself daily I was Nina...and that this is is the face and body I've been blessed with. I discounted any benefit at my age (45 years then) of facial or vocal surgery.
I joined Meetup.com to meet people in my city. Whether it was camping, hiking, euchre get togethers, movies....whatever...no one cared about my voice. No one criticized me. No one misgendered me. I felt like I was fitting in all the more.
Now 10 years later, I know no longer dress up to be "girly." I dress how I want, not how others need to see me. I don't pretend with my voice. I haven't worn makeup since last year.
Just got back from Spain after a two week vacation. It was a big test for me as I've never flown as Nina. Whether at the airport,on the plane to Spain, the time in Spain...no one noticed. No one said anything. I got "ma'am" and "miss" everywhere.
So after 10 years, my conclusion is if you believe in yourself, surgeries are not necessary other than GCS if that's important. When I transitioned 10 years ago, I never envisioned I would have had GCS, but as time went on, it became much more important to me.
Attitude, confidence, and not giving a
>-bleeped-< what others think is why I'm thriving.
Yes Nina! Thank you. :)
Hold your head up proudly. Smile and be happy to be alive. Get out to meet people and make new friends. Voice is not everything! How you speak is.
Judi
Yup! :)
Thought creates.
I had that prob from birth where folks wanted me to be something other than what I was.
That bothered me then.
Even when I did a "formal" transition, folks still wanted me to be something other that what I was. It was almost comical - they couldn't see it. They wanted me to be like their version of what they thought female was. which was totally hosed.
So I learned how to relax and let problems/tensions/fears flow through me and away so they didn't bother me any more.
I cannot act.
I do not use makeup.
I do not "dress up".
I can only be.
I suppose there will always be folks who will be bothered by me, but if I am not bothered by it, they are stuck with it.
I mostly get "ma'am'ed", but If I get "sir'ed" - that's their problem. cis women get that. why should I care.
I just thought - but I'm intersex so I'm 1/2 cis anyway, LOL, so, really? why should I care?
Quote from: Nina on December 18, 2018, 06:24:45 PM
Hi Paige
I don't know why, but I never had a challenge transitioning. Early on in my transition, I had often heard from those who had transitioned that I needed to follow their roadmap for transition. I've never believed in following others. I did lots of research online about lots of topics and came to my own conclusions.
My therapist said, and I still believe, hormones don't make you a woman. So I believed early on not to expect miracles from HRT. What I believed from therapist, is she said living full time as Nina, gaining experience is what would help me.
As each passing day, I learned to look at people in the eye, not look at the ground, and smile a lot. The more I did this, the happier I was when met with a smile. I never felt ashamed of who I was. Sure, I always felt people were judging me, but hey, take a walk through WalMart or grocery store...people are in sweatpants, no makeup, etc.
My therapist, as well as others said I needed to get my voice right. I went to half a dozen sessions with a voice therapist. I found the work hard, it felt fake, and I quit.
Year two of transition was my breakthrough. No longer did I see my former self in the mirror. I saw Nina. I reminded myself daily I was Nina...and that this is is the face and body I've been blessed with. I discounted any benefit at my age (45 years then) of facial or vocal surgery.
I joined Meetup.com to meet people in my city. Whether it was camping, hiking, euchre get togethers, movies....whatever...no one cared about my voice. No one criticized me. No one misgendered me. I felt like I was fitting in all the more.
Now 10 years later, I know no longer dress up to be "girly." I dress how I want, not how others need to see me. I don't pretend with my voice. I haven't worn makeup since last year.
Just got back from Spain after a two week vacation. It was a big test for me as I've never flown as Nina. Whether at the airport,on the plane to Spain, the time in Spain...no one noticed. No one said anything. I got "ma'am" and "miss" everywhere.
So after 10 years, my conclusion is if you believe in yourself, surgeries are not necessary other than GCS if that's important. When I transitioned 10 years ago, I never envisioned I would have had GCS, but as time went on, it became much more important to me.
Attitude, confidence, and not giving a >-bleeped-< what others think is why I'm thriving.
+1
There is no one way to do this. I agree with Nina, be yourself, and don't paint yourself into a corner, because you think you have to act in a certain, "proper" way. I've been a musician for a long time (decades). When I started transitioning in the late 90s, I not only sold all of my pro-level guitar gear to generate money, but because I thought I had to play music more suited for a woman to play. In short order, I ended up regretting doing so, since the music I wound up playing, bored me to tears. Nope, not for me. I like acoustic guitar, but I also like my electric guitars, and loud, distorted guitar tones (besides, go to YouTube nowadays, there are a fair amount of younger women, who like it, and play it on guitar too [hey! I was just ahead of the times ;D]).
Once again, just be yourself, you'll be much happier. :)
Ellen - Hoping The Fender Telecaster She Ordered, Arrives At Her Favorite Guitar Shop Tomorrow
P.S. - Nina, I had a similar situation with regards to FFS vs SRS. It was one or the other (I couldn't afford both), and since passing wasn't an issue for me, SRS (which was Goal #1 for me, when I started transitioning in Dec. 1998) it was (which was reinforced by the fact that I almost committed suicide in 2002, when I took a huge cut in pay due to corporate downsizing, and wound up flat broke, making SRS looking like an impossibility [luckily I was able to pull it off in 2003])
Quote from: Nina on December 18, 2018, 06:24:45 PM
Hi Paige
I don't know why, but I never had a challenge transitioning. Early on in my transition, I had often heard from those who had transitioned that I needed to follow their roadmap for transition. I've never believed in following others. I did lots of research online about lots of topics and came to my own conclusions.
My therapist said, and I still believe, hormones don't make you a woman. So I believed early on not to expect miracles from HRT. What I believed from therapist, is she said living full time as Nina, gaining experience is what would help me.
As each passing day, I learned to look at people in the eye, not look at the ground, and smile a lot. The more I did this, the happier I was when met with a smile. I never felt ashamed of who I was. Sure, I always felt people were judging me, but hey, take a walk through WalMart or grocery store...people are in sweatpants, no makeup, etc.
My therapist, as well as others said I needed to get my voice right. I went to half a dozen sessions with a voice therapist. I found the work hard, it felt fake, and I quit.
Year two of transition was my breakthrough. No longer did I see my former self in the mirror. I saw Nina. I reminded myself daily I was Nina...and that this is is the face and body I've been blessed with. I discounted any benefit at my age (45 years then) of facial or vocal surgery.
I joined Meetup.com to meet people in my city. Whether it was camping, hiking, euchre get togethers, movies....whatever...no one cared about my voice. No one criticized me. No one misgendered me. I felt like I was fitting in all the more.
Now 10 years later, I know no longer dress up to be "girly." I dress how I want, not how others need to see me. I don't pretend with my voice. I haven't worn makeup since last year.
Just got back from Spain after a two week vacation. It was a big test for me as I've never flown as Nina. Whether at the airport,on the plane to Spain, the time in Spain...no one noticed. No one said anything. I got "ma'am" and "miss" everywhere.
So after 10 years, my conclusion is if you believe in yourself, surgeries are not necessary other than GCS if that's important. When I transitioned 10 years ago, I never envisioned I would have had GCS, but as time went on, it became much more important to me.
Attitude, confidence, and not giving a >-bleeped-< what others think is why I'm thriving.
Thanks so much Nina, your reply is really helpful. I will definitely keep this in mind as I transition.
Paige :)
Quote from: Nina on December 18, 2018, 06:24:45 PM
....
My therapist said, and I still believe, hormones don't make you a woman. So I believed early on not to expect miracles from HRT. What I believed from therapist, is she said living full time as Nina, gaining experience is what would help me.
....
So after 10 years, my conclusion is if you believe in yourself, surgeries are not necessary other than GCS if that's important. When I transitioned 10 years ago, I never envisioned I would have had GCS, but as time went on, it became much more important to me.
Attitude, confidence, and not giving a >-bleeped-< what others think is why I'm thriving.
Thanks for sharing this Nina. I find your attitude and experience really inspiring. It makes me tear-up, in a good way.
~Dee.
While we are talking about people who are unaccepting of transsexuals, I want to raise up a toast of thanks and appreciation to all of the people who are accepting, supporting, and affirming of us.
Bravo! Thank you! :)
Chrissy
Quote from: ChrissyRyan on December 17, 2018, 08:57:19 PM
Why are many people unaccepting of transsexual people? Why is it that many people think we need to somehow "fix ourselves" so our gender conforms to the biological sex assigned to us at the time of our birth? They must be thinking we are doing something wrong.
We just want to live our lives in our correct gender and bodies, expressing ourselves in our correct gender. What is so wrong about that?
Just ask these unaccepting people if they were forced to live their lives in the incorrect gender for them, could they even imagine that? Of course not. So why are they thinking we should be living our lives in the incorrect gender for us?
Chrissy
Primarily lack of understanding. It's not surprising - understanding being trans is difficult even for trans people on a metaphysical level. Living two lives from two different perspectives is tricky, marrying those perspectives and realities in the same life/mind are tricky, etc.
But sometimes their concern about "getting fixed" without hormones and surgery (i.e. seeing a shrink to tell you to "love yourself more" I suppose) is usually their way of caring. They see it as drastic - and it is, to be quite honest; it's a big decision I'd NEVER have seen myself making twenty years ago, or even considered it back then, and you're not just asking yourself to adjust to it but others who know you too. They ask if you are having some kind of crisis that's unrelated, or if there's anything else you can do because they too know how massive a shift and challenge it is on a basic human level, and also of course, potential risks could be guessed at. They might also worry that you'll never achieve the happiness you're aiming for, which sometimes is true for trans people.
That said, they have almost zero comprehension of the motivation for why we do it in the first place, which is often because the condition is absolutely miserable or unbearable if untreated. They assume it's a
want and not a
need. Or that we have a
desire and not a
condition.
Quote from: ChrissyRyan on December 17, 2018, 09:32:56 PM
I do know that some non-trans females think that we as mtfs enjoyed male privilege while stuck in the male life, and although we are women, we lived as males with that privilege. That does not sit well with some non-trans feminists. I can understand that perspective. Even if we say we never wanted that privilege, nor consciously exploited it, it was given to us in most societies.
However, I wish these cis-feminists would be more accepting. But I wish everyone was more accepting of us transsexual people.
Chrissy
Women with these views as many of you are aware are TERFS trans exclusionary radical feminists. In short we don't count as women. I have 2 views on this.
1. We should not delude ourselves that we are the same as cis-women. We did not experience childhood as a girl - puberty - workplace discrimination - sexual harassment or on the other hand some positive things. We have not lived the life of a cis-woman.
2. On the other hand any marginalized group such as women and the feminists that advocate for equality should support and stand up for the rights of any other marginalized group. I support all LGBTQ people - black lives matter - people with physical and developmental disabilities and so on. Those with the opinions that can be identified as believing in TERF concepts are being hypocritical of not supporting their 'adopted' sisters - us.
It's a big world and there are going to be groups of folks with just about every belief system imaginable, and a few that aren't. A number of those folks won't like me, for one reason or another. I can't change that, and for the most part, I have no interest in changing it. Years back I went to a Michigan Women's Music festival(actually went to several). Though I shouldn't have, I felt like an outsider. Though I didn't expect it, they seemed accepting, or just didn't know. (back then I had implants and I found that folks would accept me simply because I had a couple footballs sticking out)(removed later since my skin never relaxed and I decided I just didn't want/like them.) When I think about that situation, I still feel uncomfortable as I would have expected them to be terf-like. (never heard that term, but anyway...)(late 70's early 80's) I guess I cop out of a lot of it by thinking that if I run into obstinance, I will just find a way to avoid it, and go on with my life - after all, there's what 6-7 billion folks down here... But, yes, they are women, or so they identify. But who am I, or are they, to say, with all of the infinite variability of the gender spectra, that whom is what. Say that 5 times fast. :) It happens that my belief system is such that I tell myself that if I run into an uncomfortable circumstance, I am messaging myself, or mirroring, or whatever, so I use the tools I gained along the way and balance things, or whatever, within myself. This is NOT blaming myself (to anyone who might think so) - merely accesing a chunk of my past and sorting it out. This seems to work for me but I don't prostletize(sp?) it for others - find what works for you and do it. Evolve. Anyway that's a ton of words that I must have been thinking about. Hugs to all!
I was wondering that maybe some people think that they were "fooled" by trans-women into thinking they are cis-women and some of those "fooled" get upset and show displeasure and disrespect. (This is not having anything to do with dating or sex, although I guess it applies there too.)
I would think though if they had this thought, they probably had a low opinion and respect for trans-people before they thought that they were "fooled."
Plus this "being fooled" is in reality simply the trans-woman blending in society as a woman.
Because we are women. I guess they think that we are not geniune women.
Chrissy
Closedmindedness and uneducated. Just like ethnocentrism, sexism, racism, and bigotry. Those who suffer through this marginalization know alot better.
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Quote from: SonadoraXVX on January 22, 2019, 07:26:22 AM
Closedmindedness and uneducated. Just like ethnocentrism, sexism, racism, and bigotry. Those who suffer through this marginalization know alot better.
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Sometimes I think they simply do not understand us, as if they need to learn to be able to understand. Some have open minds, others do not. Some listen, others do not.
Chrissy
It's not just cis people. There are some trans folks that are unnaccepting of other trans folks who are not exactly like themselves. To some people we all have to follow a preset path and ANY deviation from that is weird or odd or fake. I get that every day.....
Quote from: mako9802 on January 22, 2019, 11:21:18 AM
It's not just cis people. There are some trans folks that are unnaccepting of other trans folks who are not exactly like themselves. To some people we all have to follow a preset path and ANY deviation from that is weird or odd or fake. I get that every day.....
That is most unfortunate and unenlightened.
Chrissy
I think for some folks, things (people, belief systems,etc) that are different from how they want to perceive themselves scares the living heck out of them so they will attack you in whatever way they can to try to get you to go away and leave them to their own unchallenged false sense of security. People have and will kill others for this. Not just gender, but religion, race, or literally any belief system or be-ing-ness. I try hard to avoid them. I will walk away. There is no way I can change them.
Religions and belief systems have appeared and disappeared over the millennia trying to get folks to be understanding (and yet being themselves not understanding of certain others). it is humorous, yet very sad, this human behaviour. so I let them do as they will. I do not lie down and let them walk all over me, I simply go away. I do buy into the idea of karma and try not to do anything I wouldn't want done to me, but that is really all I can do - teach by example? I can not force myself on others. I can simply be.
That which we do not understand, we fear. That which we fear, we attack. Humans are wired this way and it is part of basic survival instinct: Fight or Flight. Humans that have evolved beyond this basic instinct can learn about what they fear and coexist, invent, and discover new horizons never seen before. Unfortunately, these people also inspire fear in the less evolved, making them by default, just as likely a target.
TLDR: The curious/different are hunted by the close minded/cowards.
In some ways trans is the very frontier of the culture wars these days. And thus about half the country will be doused in all kinds of crazy propaganda to push trans folk off.
As well, allowing people to change gender or be nonbinary further undermines the rigidity of gender and gender roles. For many in the aforementioned half, undermining trans rights is a stepping stone to undermining marriage equality and non-discrimination on the basis of sex.
Has anyone every considered you as a mtf to be a "half-woman" or not a "real woman"?
Or worse, if that is possible?
This would be for anyone a really hurtful situation and annoying as can be.
All I can say is to show love to all. Someday a change of heart may come about.
There are kind people out there.
Hugs,
Chrissy
I have noticed the Right wing bots/trolls (Russians, Klan, Nazis, ???) pushing this argument on social media: "I will not be a party to your delusions." I really hate that one.
Quote from: ChrissyRyan on February 03, 2019, 11:31:46 AM
Has anyone every considered you as a mtf to be a "half-woman" or not a "real woman"?
Or worse, if that is possible?
This would be for anyone a really hurtful situation and annoying as can be.
Yah. There is actually a popular trans putdown in certain populations in my area. I have my comeback...
"Dear! You look
just like a
real woman!"
meow!... "Why, thank you! You look
just like a
real woman, too!"
Then there are, as others mention, the putdowns about being delusional, or snarkily conflating being trans with drag performance.
Some people are really just working very hard at being hurtful jerks, to the point that they are adopting "Posie Parker" and Julia Long as role models for interacting with transgender persons. Yuck.
It can be rough to keep on moving forward and living our authentic lives in the face of this nonsense.
Fortunately these sort of nasty folks are only a tiny (if noisy) part of the population. The majority of the population in the USA has a better opinion of us than this, and supports our being allowed to just live our lives in peace. That's all most of us want, I believe, simply to live our lives and be treated like any other human being, with access to the same services as any other person.
We do have to take care still that the tiny but noisy minority opposed to our existence doesn't manage to sneak legislation or rulemaking through to deny us basic rights, just as any marginalized population must do. That is just part of life.
Not that many are actually unaccepting of us, just a noisy few who can ruin our day if we let them or our lives if we are not vigilant.
People are animals- it's just the jungle has different rules now...
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Quote from: Marcie237 on January 22, 2019, 11:57:47 AM
I think for some folks, things (people, belief systems,etc) that are different from how they want to perceive themselves scares the living heck out of them so they will attack you in whatever way they can to try to get you to go away and leave them to their own unchallenged false sense of security. People have and will kill others for this. Not just gender, but religion, race, or literally any belief system or be-ing-ness. I try hard to avoid them. I will walk away. There is no way I can change them.
Religions and belief systems have appeared and disappeared over the millennia trying to get folks to be understanding (and yet being themselves not understanding of certain others). it is humorous, yet very sad, this human behaviour. so I let them do as they will. I do not lie down and let them walk all over me, I simply go away. I do buy into the idea of karma and try not to do anything I wouldn't want done to me, but that is really all I can do - teach by example? I can not force myself on others. I can simply be.
I'm full agree with you.
My support
The worst offenders will practice in a form of "willful ignorance". I sniff out those types, tune my radar, early detection, collision avoidance....all creep filters on max....