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Monks teach maleness to Thai 'ladyboys'

Started by Shana A, July 16, 2011, 07:37:00 AM

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kate durcal

Bleesed are the peace makers for they shall see G-d

Thanks Spacial!  I can see Zenda's points but i think is better I do not respond to her post as she does not get my side.

Kate D
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cynthialee

Who decided the Nobel Truths are that?
The good prince himself, or was it the monks who came after him that capitolized on the charisma he had, to perptuate a system that provides monks with an easy living?

What makes them nobel? What makes them true? Can you deonstrate the truth or nobility?
So it is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you can win a hundred battles without a single loss.
If you only know yourself, but not your opponent, you may win or may lose.
If you know neither yourself nor your enemy, you will always endanger yourself.
Sun Tsu 'The art of War'
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Anatta

Kia Ora,
Sorry this is quite long but I guess it's important if one really wants to "understand" the "Four Noble Truth" ...According to "Buddhism"....

DISCLAIMER : THIS IS "NOT" A RECRUITMENT DRIVE FOR BUDDHISM !  Questions were asked and this hopefully will answer these questions.....[ Well at lease shed some light on the subject-"fingers" crossed XX XX]

The word dukkha is significant in Buddhism because of its association with the First Noble Truth1 -- that life is dukkha. To understand what the Buddha meant, it's important to understand what dukkha means. The word usually is translated into English as "suffering." But it also means temporary, limited, imperfect and unsatisfactory. In the Buddhist sense, it refers to anything that is conditioned. Something that is conditioned is not absolute or independent of other things. Thus, something beautiful and pleasant is dukkha, because it will end. For example, a new sports car is dukkha, because eventually it will be a rust bucket. Anything formed of the five aggregates [the Five Skandhas =Form-Sensation-Perception-Mental Formation-Consciousness] is dukkha. When the Buddha said that "life is dukkha," he didn't mean that life contains dukkha. He meant exactly that life is dukkha. Life is conditioned. Life is temporary and imperfect.

The Four Noble Truths

1. Life means Dukkha
To live means to live with imperfections, because the human nature is not perfect and neither is the world we live in. During our lifetime, we inevitably have to endure physical suffering such as pain, sickness, injury, tiredness, old age, and eventually death; and we have to endure psychological suffering like sadness, fear, frustration, disappointment, and depression. Although there are different degrees of suffering and there are also positive experiences in life that we perceive as the opposite of suffering, such as ease, comfort and happiness, life in its totality is imperfect and incomplete, because our world is subject to impermanence. This means we are never able to keep permanently what we strive for, and just as happy moments pass by, we ourselves and our loved ones will pass away one day, too.

2. The origin of Dukkha is attachment.
The origin of dukkha is attachment to transient things and the ignorance thereof. Transient things do not only include the physical objects that surround us, but also ideas, and -in a greater sense- all objects of our perception. Ignorance is the lack of understanding of how our mind is attached to impermanent things. The reasons for suffering are desire, passion, ardour, pursuit of wealth and prestige, striving for fame and popularity, or in short: craving and clinging. Because the objects of our attachment are transient, their loss is inevitable, thus suffering will necessarily follow. Objects of attachment also include the idea of a "self" which is a delusion, because there is no abiding self. What we call "self" is just an imagined entity, and we are merely a part of the ceaseless becoming of the universe.

3. The cessation of dukkha is attainable.
The cessation of dukkha can be attained through nirodha. Nirodha means the unmaking of sensual craving and conceptual attachment. The third noble truth expresses the idea that suffering can be ended by attaining dispassion. Nirodha extinguishes all forms of clinging and attachment. This means that suffering can be overcome through human activity, simply by removing the cause of suffering. Attaining and perfecting dispassion is a process of many levels that ultimately results in the state of Nirvana. Nirvana means freedom from all worries, troubles, complexes, fabrications and ideas. Nirvana is not comprehensible for those who have not attained it.

4. The path to the cessation of dukkha.
There is a path to the end of dukkha - a gradual path of self-improvement, which is described more detailed in the Eightfold Path. It is the middle way between the two extremes of excessive self-indulgence (hedonism) and excessive self-mortification (asceticism); and it leads to the end of the cycle of rebirth. The latter quality discerns it from other paths which are merely "wandering on the wheel of becoming", because these do not have a final object. The path to the end of suffering can extend over many lifetimes, throughout which every individual rebirth is subject to karmic conditioning. Craving, ignorance, delusions, and its effects will disappear gradually, as progress is made on the path.

The Eightfold Path

1. Right View [Wisdom]
Right view is the beginning and the end of the path, it simply means to see and to understand things as they really are and to realise the Four Noble Truth. As such, right view is the cognitive aspect of wisdom. It means to see things through, to grasp the impermanent and imperfect nature of worldly objects and ideas, and to understand the law of karma and karmic conditioning. Right view is not necessarily an intellectual capacity, just as wisdom is not just a matter of intelligence. Instead, right view is attained, sustained, and enhanced through all capacities of mind. It begins with the intuitive insight that all beings are subject to suffering and it ends with complete understanding of the true nature of all things. Since our view of the world forms our thoughts and our actions, right view yields right thoughts and right actions.

2. Right Intention [Wisdom]

While right view refers to the cognitive aspect of wisdom, right intention refers to the volitional aspect, i.e. the kind of mental energy that controls our actions. Right intention can be described best as commitment to ethical and mental self-improvement. Buddha distinguishes three types of right intentions: [1]. the intention of renunciation, which means resistance to the pull of desire, [2]. the intention of good will, meaning resistance to feelings of anger and aversion, and [3]. the intention of harmlessness, meaning not to think or act cruelly, violently, or aggressively, and to develop compassion.

3. Right Speech [Ethical Conduct]

Right speech is the first principle of ethical conduct in the eightfold path. Ethical conduct is viewed as a guideline to moral discipline, which supports the other principles of the path. This aspect is not self-sufficient, however, essential, because mental purification can only be achieved through the cultivation of ethical conduct. The importance of speech in the context of Buddhist ethics is obvious: words can break or save lives, make enemies or friends, start war or create peace. Buddha explained right speech as follows: [1]. to abstain from false speech, especially not to tell deliberate lies and not to speak deceitfully, [2]. to abstain from slanderous speech and not to use words maliciously against others, [3]. to abstain from harsh words that offend or hurt others, and [4]. to abstain from idle chatter that lacks purpose or depth. Positively phrased, this means to tell the truth, to speak friendly, warm, and gently and to talk only when necessary.

4. Right Action [Ethical Conduct]
The second ethical principle, right action, involves the body as natural means of expression, as it refers to deeds that involve bodily actions. Unwholesome actions lead to unsound states of mind, while wholesome actions lead to sound states of mind. Again, the principle is explained in terms of abstinence: right action means [1]. to abstain from harming sentient beings, especially to abstain from taking life (including suicide) and doing harm intentionally or delinquently, [2]. to abstain from taking what is not given, which includes stealing, robbery, fraud, deceitfulness, and dishonesty, and [3]. to abstain from sexual misconduct. Positively formulated, right action means to act kindly and compassionately, to be honest, to respect the belongings of others, and to keep sexual relationships harmless to others. Further details regarding the concrete meaning of right action can be found in the Precepts.

5. Right Livelihood [Ethical Conduct]
Right livelihood means that one should earn one's living in a righteous way and that wealth should be gained legally and peacefully. The Buddha mentions four specific activities that harm other beings and that one should avoid for this reason: [1]. dealing in weapons, [2]. dealing in living beings (including raising animals for slaughter as well as slave trade and prostitution), [3]. working in meat production and butchery, and [4]. selling intoxicants and poisons, such as alcohol and drugs. Furthermore any other occupation that would violate the principles of right speech and right action should be avoided.

6. Right Effort [Mental Development]
Right effort can be seen as a prerequisite for the other principles of the path. Without effort, which is in itself an act of will, nothing can be achieved, whereas misguided effort distracts the mind from its task, and confusion will be the consequence. Mental energy is the force behind right effort; it can occur in either wholesome or unwholesome states. The same type of energy that fuels desire, envy, aggression, and violence can on the other side fuel self-discipline, honesty, benevolence, and kindness. Right effort is detailed in four types of endeavours that rank in ascending order of perfection: [1]. to prevent the arising of unarisen unwholesome states, [2]. to abandon unwholesome states that have already arisen, [3]. to arouse wholesome states that have not yet arisen, and [4]. to maintain and perfect wholesome states already arisen.

7. Right Mindfulness [Mental Development]
Right mindfulness is the controlled and perfected faculty of cognition. It is the mental ability to see things as they are, with clear consciousness. Usually, the cognitive process begins with an impression induced by perception, or by a thought, but then it does not stay with the mere impression. Instead, we almost always conceptualise sense impressions and thoughts immediately. We interpret them and set them in relation to other thoughts and experiences, which naturally go beyond the facticity of the original impression. The mind then posits concepts, joins concepts into constructs, and weaves those constructs into complex interpretative schemes. All this happens only half consciously, and as a result we often see things obscured. Right mindfulness is anchored in clear perception and it penetrates impressions without getting carried away. Right mindfulness enables us to be aware of the process of conceptualisation in a way that we actively observe and control the way our thoughts go. Buddha accounted for this as the four foundations of mindfulness: [1]. contemplation of the body, [2]. contemplation of feeling (repulsive, attractive, or neutral), [3]. contemplation of the state of mind, and [4]. contemplation of the phenomena.

8. Right Concentration [Mental Development]
The eighth principle of the path, right concentration, refers to the development of a mental force that occurs in natural consciousness, although at a relatively low level of intensity, namely concentration. Concentration in this context is described as one-pointedness of mind, meaning a state where all mental faculties are unified and directed onto one particular object. Right concentration for the purpose of the eightfold path means wholesome concentration, i.e. concentration on wholesome thoughts and actions. The Buddhist method of choice to develop right concentration is through the practice of meditation. The meditating mind focuses on a selected object. It first directs itself onto it, then sustains concentration, and finally intensifies concentration step by step. Through this practice it becomes natural to apply elevated levels concentration also in everyday situations.

"Truth has nothing to do with words. Truth can be likened to the bright moon in the sky. Words, in this case, can be likened to a finger. The finger can point to the moon's location. However, the finger is not the moon. To look at the moon, it is necessary to gaze beyond the finger !"

What happens in philosophy and in spiritual belief systems again and again is the intense debate about the pointers.[Fingers]

To analyse the pointer is.....pointless....

For those who actually read this I would like to thank you for your "patience"...

And please sign on the dotted line.....................................................If you wish to "become" a Buddhist  ;)  :D :icon_yikes: I was only "JOKING" folks... ;)

BTW Thank you Spacial for your most welcome insight....l

Metta Zenda :)
"The most essential method which includes all other methods is beholding the mind. The mind is the root from which all things grow. If you can understand the mind, everything else is included !"   :icon_yes:
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kate durcal

Close but no cigar; thanks but no thanks!

Kate D
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Anatta

Quote from: kate durcal on July 23, 2011, 09:59:53 PM
Close but no cigar; thanks but no thanks!

Kate D

Kia Ora,

::) But free fries come with this offer too Kate and all you can drink  ;) ;D

Metta Zenda :)
"The most essential method which includes all other methods is beholding the mind. The mind is the root from which all things grow. If you can understand the mind, everything else is included !"   :icon_yes:
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kate durcal

Quote from: Zenda on July 23, 2011, 10:18:21 PM
Kia Ora,

::) But free fries come with this offer too Kate and all you can drink  ;) ;D

Metta Zenda :)

No junk food for me, I am watching my figure, but what kind of drinks are you offering?

Kate D
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Anatta

#46
Quote from: kate durcal on July 23, 2011, 10:25:18 PM
No junk food for me, I am watching my figure, but what kind of drinks are you offering?

Kate D

Kia Ora,

::) Only fruit juice ! But it is BYOG = Bring Your Own "God"[Just in case you thought the "G" stood for Grog =alcohol] ;) ;D

Metta Zenda :)
"The most essential method which includes all other methods is beholding the mind. The mind is the root from which all things grow. If you can understand the mind, everything else is included !"   :icon_yes:
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valyn_faer

I'm not a Buddhist, so I'm not trying to recruit anyone. But, from what I've read, which is mostly about Zen style Buddhism so it may be a little different, Buddha never claimed that he found a one-size fits all path to salvation/enlightenment nor did he tell people how to live. In fact, he largely acknowledged that there are many paths to salvation/enlightenment. What I always found fascinating is that Zen Buddhist monks don't argue with other religions and claim that they are the only ones who are right. They agree that there are many paths to salvation/enlightenment and they claim that if someone can achieve it through a western religion or atheism, for example, then that's great. Also, there are Zen koans (kongans)--which are basically just little stories that either have a point or no point at all, which is then just meant to make you think--which warn that even living too strictly by the precepts may bring only pain and suffering. Basically, the "moral" of the story, if you want to call it that, is that the person who becomes too attached to the precepts may end up with pain and suffering because of their attachment to the precepts. Zen Buddhism is really the only "religion" I've ever respected precisely because it's not really a religion. Think of it this way, if someone expresses that they have a problem, we oftentimes offer them help to try to solve their problem out of concern and compassion--not unlike this very forum. But any advice we give is usually not intended as rigid rules they MUST follow to solve their problem, it's just friendly advice that they can take or leave. From my understanding, that's pretty much what Zen Buddhism is. I'll reiterate this one more time, I'm not a Buddhist so I'm not trying to recruit anyone. The point is to help clarify the distinction between Buddhism and western religions, which many a scholar has done.
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Anatta

Quote from: valyn_faer on July 23, 2011, 11:51:04 PM
I'm not a Buddhist, so I'm not trying to recruit anyone. But, from what I've read, which is mostly about Zen style Buddhism so it may be a little different, Buddha never claimed that he found a one-size fits all path to salvation/enlightenment nor did he tell people how to live. In fact, he largely acknowledged that there are many paths to salvation/enlightenment. What I always found fascinating is that Zen Buddhist monks don't argue with other religions and claim that they are the only ones who are right. They agree that there are many paths to salvation/enlightenment and they claim that if someone can achieve it through a western religion or atheism, for example, then that's great. Also, there are Zen koans (kongans)--which are basically just little stories that either have a point or no point at all, which is then just meant to make you think--which warn that even living too strictly by the precepts may bring only pain and suffering. Basically, the "moral" of the story, if you want to call it that, is that the person who becomes too attached to the precepts may end up with pain and suffering because of their attachment to the precepts. Zen Buddhism is really the only "religion" I've ever respected precisely because it's not really a religion. Think of it this way, if someone expresses that they have a problem, we oftentimes offer them help to try to solve their problem out of concern and compassion--not unlike this very forum. But any advice we give is usually not intended as rigid rules they MUST follow to solve their problem, it's just friendly advice that they can take or leave. From my understanding, that's pretty much what Zen Buddhism is. I'll reiterate this one more time, I'm not a Buddhist so I'm not trying to recruit anyone. The point is to help clarify the distinction between Buddhism and western religions, which many a scholar has done.

Kia Ora Valyn_Faer,

::) Thanks for your informative insight into a different approaches to Buddhism [The Buddha taught 84 thousand ways-Zen seems to be a combination of Taoism and Buddhism]...

::) Tis said Zen practitioners ride the "bullet train" to enlightenment, while others take the slow boat ! Either way we all get there in the end ;)

Metta Zenda :)

"The most essential method which includes all other methods is beholding the mind. The mind is the root from which all things grow. If you can understand the mind, everything else is included !"   :icon_yes:
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cynthialee

84,000 lesson plans?

Why do I get the feeling that allot of things atributed to the good Prince were actually done by others?
So it is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you can win a hundred battles without a single loss.
If you only know yourself, but not your opponent, you may win or may lose.
If you know neither yourself nor your enemy, you will always endanger yourself.
Sun Tsu 'The art of War'
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Anatta

Quote from: cynthialee on July 24, 2011, 03:40:04 PM
84,000 lesson plans?

Why do I get the feeling that allot of things atributed to the good Prince were actually done by others?

Cynthia [so has not to offend I've left out "Kia Ora" because I know how much you dislike it]

::) Because you don't know much about Buddhism ?

Metta Zenda :)
"The most essential method which includes all other methods is beholding the mind. The mind is the root from which all things grow. If you can understand the mind, everything else is included !"   :icon_yes:
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Rosa

I haven't read every post in this thread, but just wanted to mention that the Buddha said that a sex change is OK as long as the MTF is treated as a nun and does not have more than two sex changes, ie., the person can change back to their born sex, but not change again after that. 
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cynthialee

You might be surprsed what I know...

I think it is a more matter of what I know of human nature than what I know of Buddhism .
So it is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you can win a hundred battles without a single loss.
If you only know yourself, but not your opponent, you may win or may lose.
If you know neither yourself nor your enemy, you will always endanger yourself.
Sun Tsu 'The art of War'
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Anatta

Quote from: cynthialee on July 24, 2011, 05:05:09 PM
You might be surprsed what I know...

I think it is a more matter of what I know of human nature than what I know of Buddhism .

::) Surprise me Cynthialee...I'm all ears.....

Metta Zenda :)
"The most essential method which includes all other methods is beholding the mind. The mind is the root from which all things grow. If you can understand the mind, everything else is included !"   :icon_yes:
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cynthialee

It is simple really. Often Herculean tasks are atributed to a historic figure that others did or took the work of many. Or books atributed to authors that never wrote them. The false byline given to lend credence to the work. To lend more authority to the historic figure.

Why would the people of India be any diferant than the rest of the world?
So it is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you can win a hundred battles without a single loss.
If you only know yourself, but not your opponent, you may win or may lose.
If you know neither yourself nor your enemy, you will always endanger yourself.
Sun Tsu 'The art of War'
  •  

Anatta

Quote from: cynthialee on July 24, 2011, 05:29:37 PM
It is simple really. Often Herculean tasks are atributed to a historic figure that others did or took the work of many. Or books atributed to authors that never wrote them. The false byline given to lend credence to the work. To lend more authority to the historic figure.

Why would the people of India be any diferant than the rest of the world? I don't think they are Cynthialee...


Cynthialee,

::) It would seem you are focusing too much upon the singer and not the song...Buddhism itself is a work in "progress"...

The Buddha didn't write the text but all that we know of him today comes from his teaching that were orally past down over the generations...If you care to study the thousands upon thousands of verses attributed to the Buddha's teachings [like many of the Buddhist teachers from the different school have spent many years doing] ,you will find that the foundations of the his teachings the "Four Noble Truths" even though approached slightly differently by different schools "remains" the same...

However Cynthialee, I'm no expert on Buddhism, I'm just a humble practitioner who has greatly benefited from the Buddha and those Buddhist teachers who have "interpreted" his teachings as best as they could...And the proof so they say "Is in the pudding !"

A wise old Zen monk once said "Great Faith and Great Doubt are two ends of a spiritual walking stick. We grip one end with the grasp given to us by our Great Determination. We poke into the underbrush in the dark on our spiritual journey. This act is real spiritual practice -- gripping the Faith end and poking ahead with the Doubt end of the stick. If we have no Faith, we have no Doubt. If we have no Determination, we never pick up the stick in the first place !"

I wish you all the best on your journey of self discovery...[I have to have a shower and get ready for  work now]

Metta Zenda :)
"The most essential method which includes all other methods is beholding the mind. The mind is the root from which all things grow. If you can understand the mind, everything else is included !"   :icon_yes:
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valyn_faer

Quote from: Zenda on July 24, 2011, 03:33:09 PM
Kia Ora Valyn_Faer,

::) Thanks for your informative insight into a different approaches to Buddhism [The Buddha taught 84 thousand ways-Zen seems to be a combination of Taoism and Buddhism]...

::) Tis said Zen practitioners ride the "bullet train" to enlightenment, while others take the slow boat ! Either way we all get there in the end ;)

Metta Zenda :)

I've read that Zen is a combination of Taoism and Buddhism, and it makes sense. I've never heard it called the "bullet train" to enlightenment, though. Haha. I always thought it seemed far more complicated, but I guess the analogy does make sense.
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Sage

Not to interrupt or anything, but is it okay if I ask a (what might be a stupid) question?

Zenda, what do "Kia Ora" and "Metta Zenda" mean?  I've been following this topic for awhile and am curious.  I hope that's okay. 

Thank you.   ;D
"Be whoever you are, but be loud. Be completely fearless when you do it. That's the big thing. Just be a fearless person. A fearless artist, a fearless accountant. Whatever you want to be." - Gerard Way, My Chemical Romance

私は死にかむ。
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Anatta

Quote from: Sage on July 28, 2011, 01:52:34 PM
Not to interrupt or anything, but is it okay if I ask a (what might be a stupid) question?

Zenda, what do "Kia Ora" and "Metta Zenda" mean?  I've been following this topic for awhile and am curious.  I hope that's okay. 

Thank you.   ;D

Kia Ora Sage,

::) My apologies for not answering you sooner...

"Kia Ora" means "Hi" in the Maori language[indigenous people of Aotearoa "NZ"]  and "Metta" is Pali[language spoken at the time of the Buddha] for "Loving Kindness"...

You can find more info on the above words here https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,102771.0.html

Metta Zenda :)
"The most essential method which includes all other methods is beholding the mind. The mind is the root from which all things grow. If you can understand the mind, everything else is included !"   :icon_yes:
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kate durcal

Quote from: Zythyra on July 16, 2011, 07:37:00 AM
Monks teach maleness to Thai 'ladyboys'

By Janesara Fugal (AFP) – 8 hours ago

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jtidB8oq-otugyBvmRQ0cPpL3tzg?docId=CNG.85dd3468c38ddd2a33b111209b8647f1.521

CHIANG KHONG, Thailand — The 15-year-old aspiring "ladyboy" delicately applied a puff of talcum powder to his nose -- an act of rebellion at the Thai Buddhist temple where he is learning to "be a man".

"They have rules here that novice monks cannot use powder, make-up, or perfume, cannot run around and be girlish," said Pipop Thanajindawong, who was sent to Wat Kreung Tai Wittaya, in Chiang Khong on the Thai-Laos border, to tame his more feminine traits.

I bet you some of this sadistic monks are pedophiles, just like some of those chastolic priest

Metta Kate D
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