which restroom?

[jamie nicole]

when it comes to transvestites, who do not identify as the opposite sex, which restroom should be used if and/or when in public? Same question for crossdressers?

[Anatta]

Kia Ora,

Unisex....If I was who you mentioned....But then that's just me....

Metta Zenda

[jamie nicole]

no, just wondering how others feel or what other opinions are.  Luckily, many places of business are/have implemented family restrooms and unisex restrooms.  But, in the instance where no individual restrooms or unisex/family restrooms, which one should be used?

[Anatta]

Kia Ora J N,

I take it you are meaning those TVs and CDs whose birth sex is quite obvious "identifiable"...Again this would depend upon the individual...Some CDs are what one would call "bigendered", that is when they are dressed up they take on the persona of the gender they are identifying with, so I guess the female loo would be the best place for them...

And if a person happened to have a "transvestic" fetish [Receiving sexual gratification from wearing clothing of the opposite sex] then I'm guessing this person wouldn't be out in public in the first place or if they were they would be very selective as to where they go so has to avoid any hassles...

But I could be wrong...

Metta Zenda

[AbraCadabra]

Another WHAT IF?

If s/he looks like a girl, quacks like a girl, walks like a girl, s/he may pee like a girl?
I'd say yes, to the girls loo.

In any case how would you know the persons derives 'sexual-gratification' to look and quack like girl?
The natal-female might just get the same kick sitting down in the next stall?
Girls do too you know, hey?!

Since you asked the question... :-)
Axelle

[cindianna_jones]

I would use the facility that you won't get thrown out of.  If there aren't any that fill the bill, go somewhere else.


Cindi

[FairyGirl]

I would use the facility that you won't get thrown out of.  If there aren't any that fill the bill, go somewhere else.

Ha! Excellent answer.

There is some recent controversy on this subject..

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,104033.msg778887/topicseen.html#msg778887

[cindianna_jones]

Hey, listen, I was thrown out of a couple restrooms before I started to transition and it scared the crap out of me. I did everything I could to stay away from public restrooms until I fit into the roll.

And it is the role that will get you every single time. I wear tee shirts, jeans, and walking shoes around here. I wear no makeup.  I really don't get it. I tried so hard for so long and got so much public teasing. It was only when I started to be comfortable with myself that I started to get by with no problems.

[noeleena]

Hi,

As a woman i only use womens & normaly thats the way it should be , when i go like my women friends it should only be women ... okay...  i  dont expect to see a male in our space, one good reason being is when i take our 8 y 8 m grandchild who is a girl she will say to me , she does not wont a male to be in there, she does not like males any where around her when she has to do what ever. so if your a male dont go ,

Now the other side is , if your dressed & would not be notised & nothing about you says male ,   looks manerisms walk & how you handle your self then we will accept that , tho most of us who are women will talk ,, okay . & i know some who can not do any of what i'v said they would be outed so fast it would cause a stir  , so think about your self in how you conduct your self in our ....space.....

If say you went to a bar type do drag places or we out number the male's then thats okay in some places,   tho not a problem i'v seen ,  i do mind tho i'll over look that. under those condstions .

Tho just the day to day where other people are , it can become an issue & thats from a woman.

You know what we where taught have you been to the loo before you go out ....or just dont drink so much knowing your going out,, 

As a after thought .  its about conducting your self in a manner thats aproprate to where you are.

& lets say your a woman how would you feel about a male comeing in to your space , what would you think . why is that male there,...... other motives , thats why it 's our space, ........

You see its very hard for a male to think as we do . 

...noeleena...

[Annah]

if you present male, go to the men's bathroom

if you present female, go to the women's bathroom

same rule of thumb for fitting rooms

both the bathrooms and fitting rooms has privacy doors

[Annah]

Hi,

As a woman i only use womens & normaly thats the way it should be , when i go like my women friends it should only be women ... okay...  i  dont expect to see a male in our space, one good reason being is when i take our 8 y 8 m grandchild who is a girl she will say to me , she does not wont a male to be in there, she does not like males any where around her when she has to do what ever. so if your a male dont go ,

I'm going to play some devil's advocate. I respect your opinion but I just wanna reflect on some of the issues.

There are many people in our society that will say the same thing about us trans people that we say about the crossdressers and TV people (really TV is such an outdated word....this is the last time youll see me use it). I just find it somewhat ironic how we can point fingers at CDs and scold them or suggest to them they cannot go to the bathroom because even though they dress up as a woman, they are still a man. I say "ironic" because every single conservative person out there and some moderates will say the same thing to us.

It seems that we repeat that type of process against a CD that society impose upon a TS.

Now the other side is , if your dressed & would not be notised & nothing about you says male ,   looks manerisms walk & how you handle your self then we will accept that , tho most of us who are women will talk ,, okay . & i know some who can not do any of what i'v said they would be outed so fast it would cause a stir  , so think about your self in how you conduct your self in our ....space.....

So, based upon this argument, how do you feel about transsexual women who do not pass? Is the ability to pass also the ability to be granted access into the gender specific bathroom in which they are presenting under?

Tho just the day to day where other people are , it can become an issue & thats from a woman.

Sounds eerily similiar to a conservative cis gendered woman talking about transsexuals too.

[Constance]

When I identified as a crossdresser and was out crossdressed, I used the women's room. If gendered restrooms must exist, then I don't see why a CD or TV shouldn't use the restroom matching their current presentation.

[tekla]

both the bathrooms and fitting rooms has privacy doors

Actually, lots of clubs, particularly in big night club areas like NYC or SF, have taken all the doors off all the stalls on police orders.  I've seen communal dressing rooms in places too.

[HelenW]

I think people should use the public restroom that they feel comfortable in and or the one they feel safest in.  Most often (always?) that would be the one that matches their presentation, I would think.  Of course, this also behooves those who use these spaces to behave appropriately when they do so.

You cannot tell who is a cross dresser, who is transsexual or who is cissexual just by looking.  There are too many trans people who don't quite pass and too many CD'ers that pass very well for anyone to think they can tell.  That's why the "I don't want cross dressers in the ladies room" meme is just as transphobic as the "men in dresses will assault women in the ladies room if we pass this nondiscrimination law," BS.  Prejudging by identity or appearance is wrong, in my book, and it should never be countenanced.  Prejudice based on appearance - skin color - was long perpetrated on people in this country.  We have all decided this is wrong.  The same rules should apply, in my opinion, to appearances based on gender expression.

I suggest we judge individuals by their behavior and not groups based on some stereotype.

[Shana A]

if you present male, go to the men's bathroom

if you present female, go to the women's bathroom

There are also people who don't identify and/or present as either gender. What bathroom is safe for them to use?

Z

[Annah]

There are also people who don't identify and/or present as either gender. What bathroom is safe for them to use?

Z

If they don't present as either gender or is androgen then they should use the bathroom that they feel the safest and most comfortable in.

[tekla]

What about the rights of the people who are in the bathroom?

[Steph]

Regardless of whether the person is a male or female CD/TV the fact remains that no matter how they present in public they are still male or female, it does not give them the right to invade the privacy of others. Doing so is foolhardy and exposes those individuals to prosecution etc, etc.  It matters not that cases of assault, molestation, and sexual interference in washrooms may be few and far between, even blown out of proportion, what matters is the fact that it is hard for society in general to accept opposite sexes in gendered washrooms.  Until then use unisex or family washrooms.

[Annah]

What about the rights of the people who are in the bathroom?

based on that logic, trans people would be kicked out the bathroom right alongside the crossdressers.

You also have to take into account the rights of the person wanting to use the bathroom.

[Annah]

Regardless of whether the person is a male or female CD/TV the fact remains that no matter how they present in public they are still male or female, it does not give them the right to invade the privacy of others. Doing so is foolhardy and exposes those individuals to prosecution etc, etc.  It matters not that cases of assault, molestation, and sexual interference in washrooms may be few and far between, even blown out of proportion, what matters is the fact that it is hard for society in general to accept opposite sexes in gendered washrooms.  Until then use unisex or family washrooms.

So what about a transsexual person who has yet to get their gender identity marker changed to "F"? Should they use unisex bathrooms and not their gender presentation? Are they only a female until the judge says so?

Im not attacking anyone personally, Im trying to show people there is a much bigger picture here that goes far beyond the subject matter of crossdressers and bathrooms. The solution is very rarely simple.