I want a vagina orifice and a penis together

[symempathy]

I ask this question in this forum because I want need advice from intersex people. Please understand that I don't intend to offend anyone, but I need to know if my feelings are valid.

I am gay, and I feel mostly like a man. There is a small female part that I can feel inside me. It's not so overwhelming that I want transition to become a female, but it's significant enough to drive me to desire a vaginal opening. I don't know why I feel this way, but it is what it is. I definitely don't want hormone replacement therapy to feminize myself, but I feel like I have to have an orifice in place of my scrotal area. I don't care how deep it is or how wide it is, but it has to be there. Otherwise, at least I need orchiectomy. My testicles have to be gone. The femininity in me wants to have a place on my body, specifically at my genital area.

Perhaps you guys may think that I am crazy, but honestly I can't control my feelings. The female in me keeps bugging me about this issue. I used to think that I was a transsexual, but it felt odd. Eventually I realize that I am just a human being who is 95% male and 5% female that wants to be physically recognized. Becoming a full female is absolutely not an option.

I know that most gender therapists in the US adhere to HB Standard of care, so I will have very big trouble looking for a therapist who will accept who I am. I know that I will have a long way to go until my issue is resolved.

I digress a lot with my personal story. I want to ask people here who are intersex that is it anatomically possible to have both penis and a vagina at the same time? I mean can I keep my penis and use my scrotum to construct a vaginal orifice without changing anything else?

Either I have to have that or my testis need to be gone. The tiny bit of female in me won't stop bugging me until my male side physically backs off a bit, and losing my testicles will do just that.

I hope I didn't offend or remind you of the pain you have to go through being intersex. I figure that since you are the ones who have both male and female systems, you can give me a better answer than others.

Thank you.

[MarinaM]

"Intersex" is a general term used for a variety of conditions in which a person is born with a reproductive or sexual anatomy that doesn't seem to fit the typical definitions of female or male. For example, a person might be born appearing to be female on the outside, but having mostly male-typical anatomy on the inside. Or a person may be born with genitals that seem to be in-between the usual male and female types—for example, a girl may be born with a noticeably large clitoris, or lacking a vaginal opening, or a boy may be born with a notably small penis, or with a scrotum that is divided so that it has formed more like labia. Or a person may be born with mosaic genetics, so that some of her cells have XX chromosomes and some of them have XY.
[...]
In our work, we find that doctors' opinions about what should count as "intersex" vary substantially. Some think you have to have "ambiguous genitalia" to count as intersex, even if your inside is mostly of one sex and your outside is mostly of another. Some think your brain has to be exposed to an unusual mix of hormones prenatally to count as intersex—so that even if you're born with atypical genitalia, you're not intersex unless your brain experienced atypical development. And some think you have to have both ovarian and testicular tissue to count as intersex.

http://www.isna.org/faq/what_is_intersex

Only you can tell if your feelings about this issue are valid. I pop in because I give out information like it's candy - It is not necessary to be IS to know a few things about anatomy. I am new staff here, not IS.

We try as hard as we can to be supportive, but this will be a tough issue for anyone to comment on since you yourself are not IS, and do not experience these feelings stemming from that state of being. (Or are you? Are you transgender?) It will be extremely difficult for you to find a doctor willing to remove healthy living tissue from your body unless it is deemed necessary for your well being, hence the SOC. While it is possible to construct a myriad of things down there (but not a working vagina AND penis, only so much tissue / pipes), know that it will be a long and difficult road to surgery. I advise you to begin with therapy.

Good luck.

[Ryno]

This is quite strange indeed, I just posted a thread about this exact same issue in the FtM board. I guess I'm in the same boat, just, sort of opposite? I am genetically female and as much as I want a penis, I'm quite happy having a vagina and would love more than anything to have both and present completely male other than that little fact of having a vagina.

Weird. Anyway, I should poke my head in here more often. I might learn something new :O

[Arch]

Another member (no pun intended) posted about this a couple of years ago. As it happened, I had just been roaming around the nets not long before and had run across someone who actually HAD both a penis and a vagina, and, I believe, whose penis was original equipment and whose vagina was constructed. I don't think the footage was photoshopped, but I suppose there's no way to be sure.

Unfortunately, I was never able to figure out where I saw that, so I could not provide a link.

But now you know that a couple of other people have at least thought about this.

[symempathy]

This is quite strange indeed, I just posted a thread about this exact same issue in the FtM board. I guess I'm in the same boat, just, sort of opposite? I am genetically female and as much as I want a penis, I'm quite happy having a vagina and would love more than anything to have both and present completely male other than that little fact of having a vagina.

Weird. Anyway, I should poke my head in here more often. I might learn something new :O

I'm happy to hear this from a genetic female. I hope you don't mind me asking too personal questions. If I cross your boundary, please feel free to stop me.

When your clitoris erects, how long can it stretch? I personally want to retain my penis, but I don't need it to erect. I want to know when a female's clitoris erects, can it reach the same length of a male penis in its resting state?

In another forum, I heard that it is anatomically impossible to have both vagina and penis. When penis erects to its maximum, it will block the vaginal canal. I think this is not the case in a cisgender female because their aroused clitoris cannot enlarge that much. However, I'm not sure, and I can't ask a female in real life. I hope I can get the answer in this forum.

Thank you

[Ryno]

I'm pre-T so, it's pretty frikkin tiny. I've tried measuring and failed miserably. It's less than an inch, that's for sure. So no, when it's erect it definitely isn't as large as a flaccid penis.

BUT, with testosterone the clit does enlarge, a friend said his is 4" (I'm really not so sure but whooo knows), and another said his is 2". So, with that said, I guess maybe the erect clit can possibly be as large as a small flaccid penis. It's more similar to a micropenis I guess.

[Sevan]

Well hi!

I had an absolute breakdown and discovered I was transgender due to obsessing about having a vagina and penis. I was finally able to suppress the need/desire but it always cropped back up.
I finally sought therapy to see what could be done to help me feel more at peace. After some research I wasn't happy (still am not) with what surgery options were available for female bodied persons. (penis creation) and my therapist helped me to have reasonable expectations and she fully embraces me as my identity. I self identify as FtA or Androgyn. If you were to come on over to the androgyn section you might (well...you will) find more folks who are more like yourself. Having two parts of self who need to be recognized. *hugs*

Oh...I am on testosterone and it has grown my clit. I'd say it's about an inch or inch and a half when erect...never measured but it's no where near as big as even the smallest penis...that's for sure. It's far bigger than it ever was before...so that's something.

[symempathy]

Well hi!

I had an absolute breakdown and discovered I was transgender due to obsessing about having a vagina and penis. I was finally able to suppress the need/desire but it always cropped back up.
I finally sought therapy to see what could be done to help me feel more at peace. After some research I wasn't happy (still am not) with what surgery options were available for female bodied persons. (penis creation) and my therapist helped me to have reasonable expectations and she fully embraces me as my identity. I self identify as FtA or Androgyn. If you were to come on over to the androgyn section you might (well...you will) find more folks who are more like yourself. Having two parts of self who need to be recognized. *hugs*

Oh...I am on testosterone and it has grown my clit. I'd say it's about an inch or inch and a half when erect...never measured but it's no where near as big as even the smallest penis...that's for sure. It's far bigger than it ever was before...so that's something.

Sevan, thank you for taking time to answer my post.
I will stop by Androgyne forum although I'm not sure if I'm a good fit for it. I know what androgyne means, but I never think myself as one. Perhaps I'm one without knowing it. I only know that no matter what I do, my gender expression tends to stand more closely to feminine side. I wish it just shifted completely to the end, so I can be normal like other transsexual people.

Is androgyne recognized by WPATH-SOC?

[Sevan]

Well....technically....no. Androgyne's aren't recognized by the WAPATH. However there are increasing number of therapists who are willing to work with non binary folk.
"Androgyne" here on this site is an umbrella term that encompasses all who don't feel they fit clearly into male or female categories. We don't hold to the "must be %50 male %50 female" description of the term. Far more lax around here!

[symempathy]

Well....technically....no. Androgyne's aren't recognized by the WAPATH. However there are increasing number of therapists who are willing to work with non binary folk.
"Androgyne" here on this site is an umbrella term that encompasses all who don't feel they fit clearly into male or female categories. We don't hold to the "must be %50 male %50 female" description of the term. Far more lax around here!

THank you, Sevan
I don't know much about WAPATH. I read some posts in Androgyne forum, and it seems like most don't deal with surgery, only with hormones to develop male or female feature that they desire.
My case is completely opposite. Although I'm willing to lose my testis, I want to keep my testosterone level through description pills. The female in me is happy with that, but it wants to surface on my body specifically at my genital area. I don't know any androgyne who want to go through surgery without hormone treatment.

[Sevan]

I do understand what your saying. Honestly....I would have preferred surgery without hormones but didn't see it as a viable option for me. (one part finances and two parts unhappy with the surgical option) Androgyne's do come in all shapes, sizes, and identities. If you don't feel as though you could fit in with the androgyne's that's fine. That's up to you. Just wanted to throw that option out there.

[symempathy]

I do understand what your saying. Honestly....I would have preferred surgery without hormones but didn't see it as a viable option for me. (one part finances and two parts unhappy with the surgical option) Androgyne's do come in all shapes, sizes, and identities. If you don't feel as though you could fit in with the androgyne's that's fine. That's up to you. Just wanted to throw that option out there.

Thank you for your understanding.
I have a question. When you take testosterone, is growing your clitoris your sole goal? You realize what else it can do unto your body, don't you? Aren't you afraid that your voice may be deepened, you can grow body hair and facial hair, your menstruation can be messed up?

Perhaps I'm really an androgyne because honestly, getting a vagina is not my only goal. Like you say, there is different degree of androgyne because I also want to shave my trachea and eliminate all my facial hairs. That is all I want. No hormone though.

You are probably an exception among androgynes that I know of.

[Sevan]

Yea...I'm an exception to many rules..I get that alot. 🙂

Oh yes, I definitly fully realize all that testosterone can do. That was a huge part of therapy. Making sure I understood all that hormone replacement therapy would do. My voice has deepened quite a bit. I didn't actually expect that...I thought I was doing a "low dose" but...it didn't work out that way. I do like my voice though, now that I"m adjusted to it.
Growing my clit was actually not even really on my radar. (at the time I started therapy) I actually started hormones because I'd dealt with depression and anxiety for many many years...and as my hormone cycles would come...I didn't deal with it so well. My spouse is MtF and I watched her depression lessen and nearly disappear. I noticed some very fine changes, very light and hard to describe...but mainly her moods were just so much better. I started to wonder if my depression was based on my hormones being wrong for my body. I knew I was trans, I knew I was androgyn but I REALLY started to wonder about what hormones would be right for my body/mind.
Turns out testosterone is totally right.
I have to take the pros and the cons. Not everything is going to be perfect, or entirely desirable. My therapist asked me how i would deal if I should start losing my hair. If that would stop me from taking T. I wondered outloud back at her...does a natal male like that part of being male? Do they have to? Should they start transition to female because they fear/dislike balding? No. Not everything will be perfect. I can't pick and choose how hormones will effect me...and I'm ok with that mostly. Sometimes I struggle with the changes...but then again, I don't like change much in general. 😉
I do have a beard now, and I quite like it. Societies feelings about a woman with a beard is something I struggle with and feel uncomfortable about...but when I'm just at home I'll let it grow and I like it quite a bit. My wife doesn't...so I do shave at least once a week. lol
I have grown some body hair though very very little, and it's very light and fine (as of yet) and if it gets to be too much...laser hair removal is an option though I doubt I'll need it if it keeps up like this.
My menstruation was already VERY messed up far before I started T. So that wasn't much of a worry. Being done menstruating sounded wonderful. Oddly I still haven't stopped altogether and none of my doctors can figure out why. I've been on T for over a year and a half and I should definitely be done bleeding but...nope. Figures that I'll bleed more often on T than I did on E. *sigh* Whatever. I take the good with the bad. (before anyone freaks about my menstruation...we've checked my blood, we've sent me for ultrasound, I've gone to a specialist and all of them shrug and say everything looks fine.)

[Jen-Jen]

This is quite strange indeed, I just posted a thread about this exact same issue in the FtM board. I guess I'm in the same boat, just, sort of opposite? I am genetically female and as much as I want a penis, I'm quite happy having a vagina and would love more than anything to have both and present completely male other than that little fact of having a vagina.

Weird. Anyway, I should poke my head in here more often. I might learn something new :O

This is really strange, I thought I was the only one who thought this!  Ryno, you said it so  perfect, so I'm gonna bite your words, hope you don't mind.  I am MTF but  I guess I'm in the same boat too, I am genetically male and as much as I want a vagina, I'm quite happy having a penis and would love more than anything to have both and present completely female other than that little fact of having a penis. Oh and I would want them both functional.