Moral Advice Please....

[MaxAloysius]

Hey guys, this could get long quickly, so sorry in advance!

I've become really close with this guy at work over the last couple of weeks, and it's been awesome. He's hot and amazing, lovely and he's so interesting to be around, but I'm having a really serious moral dilema moment. Over the last couple of weeks we've been almost inseperable, I go into work to hang out with him, he comes in early before my shift to play pool with me etc, and we have spent the last week or so on skype to each other all night. He knows I'm trans and seems to be fine with it, though it's taken him a fair bit of time to work out that Max=/= girl in more ways than one.

It couldn't all be easy though...a little while ago he discovered that he loves flirting with me, so he's been doing that non-stop since, and it has slowly but surely been escalating. The problem: He has a girlfriend that (as far as I can tell) he's head over heels in love with, and he's quite certain he's going to marry her some day. They've been together for six and a half years.

The really big problem: Last night things escalated to an insane level on skype, where he readily admitted that he was hard, and then proceded to turn of his cam and fix the problem. Sorry if any of this is TMI. XZ Worse still is that when he's flirting with me, he will straight up talk us through sexual encounters, right down to the last detail of what would happen, and I'm getting really confused trying to figure out when he's joking, and when he actually means it. Because after last night, I'm not so sure that 'you could bend me over the telescopes and...' etc etc is such a joke anymore...

So in conclusion: As things are at the moment, he's very touchy-feely with me, and he will spend a lot of time at work hugging me or leaning on me, and he flirts like nobody's business, but we haven't really done anything I'd consider 'cheating'. I really, really don't want to get between him and his girlfriend, because as much as I like this guy (a lot!), there's no freaking way I can compete with that relationship, and I wouldn't want to ruin it for him. Plus, I'm fairly certain he doesn't want to break up with her either, so whatever the hell I am to him I'm more like an extra than the main course.

So please some advice, at what point do I as a good friend put a stop to this behaviour? I don't want the smooth flow we've developed to be disrupted by me going 'Woah, sorry but no' and make our awesome relationship turn stilted, but at the same time I don't want him to end up a cheater in any sense of the word.

[Sharky]

I would do whatever made me happy and not worry about it. It's his relationship that he could potentially be jeopardizing, but maybe it's not in jeopardy at all. Everyone has different rules when it comes to cheating. It's not like you are forcing him to do anything. He's accountable for his own actions and consequences.

[cynthialee]

Is the sexual attention he is giving you respecting of your male identity?
Does he sexualize your female atributes?
Are you willing to participate in or desiring of the fantasies he has propossed?

The way you answer these questions should inform your descision.

[MaxAloysius]

@Sharky: Normally I would agree with you completely, but this guy is important to me, and I want to go the route that will be best for him in the long run, not me.

@cynthialee:
Yes. Though it was hard getting him to understand in the beginning that I could never have sex as a woman at all, and that I hate my chest, he now seems to understand those things about me a lot better. When he flirts with me he will always say dick instead of clit, and all of his suggestions are ones that I could perform with a cismale body.

He has never once complimented my female atributes, I think because he is aware that it wouldn't go down well with me. I am worried that he may only be interested in me because I'm AFAB, but as I don't plan to take this anywhere because of the aforementioned girlfriend, that doesn't matter so much.

And lastly, I would love to get with this guy. But not at the cost of his relationship with his girlfriend, or at the loss of our amazing friendship. I'd much rather keep things smooth and simple than take a leap of faith and destroy everything.

[JohnAlex]

I would do whatever made me happy and not worry about it. It's his relationship that he could potentially be jeopardizing, but maybe it's not in jeopardy at all. Everyone has different rules when it comes to cheating. It's not like you are forcing him to do anything. He's accountable for his own actions and consequences.

I agree with this.
For all we know, he's looking to get out of his long-time relationship, but hasn't found anything better.  People will often stick with "second best" ...until something better comes along.
So, I think you should do whatever YOU want to do.  It's not like you're trying to seduce him and he's trying to resist you for the sake of his girlfriend.  He's the one coming onto you, and he's the one who is at fault if anything happens in his relationship with his girlfriend.  And you just can't make his decisions for him, especially when you don't know everything about his relatinoship.
Maybe she is second best and you are the something better that came along.  Or maybe he's been looking for an excuse to get out of the relationship with her.  We just don't know. And there's no reason for you to concern yourself with trying to "save" their relationship by pulling yourself out of the picture.  HE's the one coming onto YOU.  He will take the consequences of HIS actions.  (also, for all we know, he could be polygamous.)

My only advice is make sure you don't get hurt. But other than that, do whatever you want

[cynthialee]

**my brain has been twisted from decades of T overdose**

My imediate thought was...well just invite the girlfriend into the mix and have a 3 way.

[MaxAloysius]

Hahah, cynthialee I don't like women, and the way I feel about her, I just might punch her for getting there first.

@JohnAlex: All very good points indeed, and ones I know I'd be pointing out to anyone else in this possition. The main problem I'm having is working out if he's serious or not. It is very, very hard to tell when this guy is joking and when he's being serious, he's a professional troll. So a big part of me is afraid that even if I did go for it, that he isn't actually interested in me. There's also the fact that if he does want to be with me, I don't want him to be with her, if that makes sense. I don't want to be with him while he's figuring out whether or not he wants to split with her, I want him to myself or not at all.

I also know for a fact he's not poly, since we've both expressed concern over his girlfriend reading our texts or instant messages and getting the wrong idea. Although it's not really looking so much like a wrong idea anymore...XZ

[cynthialee]

I've been known to bed a person I had no attraction to just to be able to sleep with their lover.

but I have no shame...

[dmx]

It's his relationship; his choice and his fault if it's ruined. In that situation I would ignore the fact he has a GF and let him make his own decisions. Maintaining his relationship not your responsibility.

[Arch]

**my brain has been twisted from decades of T overdose**

My imediate thought was...well just invite the girlfriend into the mix and have a 3 way.

I was in a triad marriage for a couple of years way before T...

[MaxAloysius]

He went off cam and mic to do it. And yeah, I am uncomfortable with it, which was the main point of this thread. I was more after some help figuring out where and when to put the brakes on this than encouragement to let his relationship with his girlfriend go down the drain.

I'm well aware of the fact that if my partner were doing these things with someone else I would consider it a horrible breach of trust at best, and that's why I don't like things as they are. Even though there hasn't been any 'cheating' going on, this behaviour is definitely more than casual friendliness. I've been talking with him today, and I'm almost 100% certain that he has no desire to break if off with his girlfriend, and I have no desire to force that break, so I really am just left wondering how the hell I back out of this without ruining a relationship I've really come to rely on. This guy is one of my only friends, and I really don't want to lose that to awkwardness.

[Arch]

I was briefly involved with a guy from work (I know, bad idea) and didn't know he had an on-again-off-again girlfriend until we had slept together once or twice. I thought he had broken up with her. Permanently.

If I had known, I would never have gotten involved.

On the other hand, the ex before my previous ex was in an open relationship. I had no trouble getting involved with him. His girlfriend couldn't handle it, and they broke up soon after I entered the picture. But she freely admitted that theirs was an open relationship.

The bottom line for me--just ME--is that I don't want to get involved with someone who is cheating on someone else.

If your friend is looking for an excuse to end his current relationship, he can do that before getting involved with someone else, can't he?

Anyway, it doesn't sound as if he is serious about you--not yet--maybe he is just enjoying the raciness of it all. And you seem to want to preserve a friendship that works for you. Maybe you can make it clear that all of this flirting is just flirting and will never go anywhere as long as he is involved with someone else.

Unless, of course, you don't really care about that.

[MaxAloysius]

Yeah, I agree with you completely Arch, I don't want to be with someone who is cheating on someone else. If he was poly and in an open relationship then maybe I could possibly handle it, but not with a pertner who doesn't know.

And yeah, I don't think he's really into me, I think he's probably just enjoying the fun of flirting with someone he feels comfortable with after years without.

[Sharky]

I think he has already cheated in his heart. Six years is a long time to be with someone. Maybe he is conflicted about leaving her. He may still have love for her even if the spark is gone. I he may feel that breaking up is loosing six years of his life. He may even feel guilty that his feelings and wants have changed. There are a lot of things that could be going on. If you want to be friends with this guy you should really sit down and talk it out. If you want to be life long friends I suggest never becoming sexual or romantic.

[Cindy]

I'll apologise before I post this.

And please I am not being or trying to be rude or insulting to anyone.
Forgive me.

When I was male I would shag anything and anyone. I would lie, I would deceive, I would promise, I would create circumstances. I could easily put people at ease and it meant nothing about what their sexuality was. I had a penis and a heap of hormones behind it. I hated it. But I loved the orgasms. I could not stop mounting, I would masturbate 3-5 times a day which did nothing for me but the body, and the male bits begged it.

Max, and please do not vomit on this comment, I think I would have found a weakness in you and used you. The fact that I had a girl/boy/wife friend would have meant nothing. You would be a conquest. Nothing more nothing less. " You know Max the FtM in ****, shagged her last night, really tight pussy. Mmmm. Reckon I can do her whenever, just call her him and she is all over you. Typical lesbo. Just needs a good F.

These people prey on you. They do not understand or want to understand. They are nasty people and I'm so sorry if I have burst bubbles. Once he gets your pants off,  he will say "of course you are a guy with a vagina. " I think you are a really cute guy, I'll just help you relax.

He isn't cheating on the past. He is just cheating. He couldn't give a damn, the only thing he wants to do is to feed his prick.


Sorry

Cindy

[MaxAloysius]

It's cool Cindy, you didn't offend me, and I understand where you're coming from, but this guy's not like that. He's one of the nicest people I know, and I have known him for over a year now and he's never shown any signs of being that kind of predator, even when women throw themselves at him. There's also the fact that he knows I cannot and will not function as a woman, and has no interest in making that happen. He knowns my clothes don't even come off for someone I've been dating for over 8 months, so I hardly ring true as an easy conquest.

And thanks again Sharky, some very good points. I'm thinking I'm going to give it some time after last night (so he doesn't think he freaked me out or anything) and just casually bring it up in conversation that we need to stop, because it really isn't fair to anyone involved. Hopefully it goes alright and I don't loose him as a close friend.

[Sollan]

I personally had to deal with just this kind of situation, when I was still living my life as a women. My husband, ex for a long time now, had an ongoing "friendship" with a women he worked with, they would have late night talks on private forums, he had no microphone, did all the things you spoke of, and one night I blew up and unplugged the computer, telling him I was tiered of his "cheating", and told him to make a choice.

I am just putting in my two cents, hope I didn't offend, But for me, I like to look at myself in the mirror and like who I see.

[Gadgett]

I just keep thinking, I know for myself. that I would never want to be the "other" woman.

Jut my 2 cents *and here's your change.*

[Da Monkey]

I've been in situations like this before and f**ked them over and f**ked myself over at the same time. I agree with Cindy here. I slept with my ex's girlfriend right after we met. On my ex's birthday. Right after we went out drinking together. While I was dating someone else. F**king awful to think about now and I was pre-t, actually, even living as a woman so I didn't even have male hormones as an excuse. That's just the ->-bleeped-<-ty person I was hahah. I was young, didn't care, my relationship was at it's end just neither of us said it yet. Doesn't justify it but there was a whole crap load of drama from it all and I learned this:

'Never leave the person you love for the person you like, because the person you like will leave you for the person they love.'

I know you're not in a relationship but you can see what I mean by it. Say, he does cheat on his girlfriend with you, then what? He probably won't leave her, you will be upset over it, he will act like it's nothing. Or, say he does leave his long-term girlfriend for you. What makes you think he won't leave you for someone else? If anyone tries to say that you're special enough to make them leave someone else, they're full of ->-bleeped-<-. That's just their cover up for being an ->-bleeped-<-. Anyone who is good enough for you will at least have enough balls to break it off with their partner first, have some time to get over it, then move on when it's right.

[anibioman]

It's his relationship; his choice and his fault if it's ruined. In that situation I would ignore the fact he has a GF and let him make his own decisions. Maintaining his relationship not your responsibility.

so true.