Restoring Relationships

[SarahM777]

It's something I have thought about for some time and I am just trying to clarify it in my own mind from a Christian perspective. It does not seem to be talked about to often.

I am going back to the time I was married and when everything came to a head. It' seem to be so easy to take a look at it that when it did come to a head to blame her for not understanding what i was going through but it leaves out the other side and bodes the question "What was she going through?" Granted at that time my life was being turned upside but also at the same time her life was turned upside down. She saw a man that was her husband and now she must ask some very difficult questions,she is feeling betrayed,that she has been lied to and she can no longer trust me. It called into question her position,her sexuality,and cuts to the very core of her being. What then gives me any right to pity myself when she went through the above and more? Is not what she went through just as valid? Does this not mean that I need to get off my high horse about what I am going through, to take a look at the words and actions that I did (Not that what I am carrying is wrong but it's how I dealt with it that makes it right or wrong) and is it any wonder that others would react the same way?

If this then is the case does it not mean that I need to seek their forgiveness not for what I am but for what I did and how I handled it (Which was very poorly) Does then if they choose to forgive me start the healing process of a broken relationship?

[mowdan6]

Hi Sarah.  I believe that seeking forgiveness is always the right thing to do.  As you said,  Not for being who you are, but for the things you said or did.  If they forgive you...receive it and move on.  If they choose not to forgive, you did your part so you no longer need to feel convicted. 
I had a similar situation with my Mom.  We did'nt speak for years.  One day, I called her, told her basically the thoughts you mentioned.  We have had a great relationship ever since.  She still does'nt agree with my transition, but instead of getiing upset with each other,  we just agree to disagree.  No anger...no strife. 

[SarahM777]

Hi Mowdan,

I think you are so right on this. I really think that seeking the forgiveness of someone else is a good thing. (It does not always come as it is also dependent on the other person if they are willing to forgive)

I think what made it so hard for me was that my wife was the best friend I ever had. (We should never have gotten married and should have kept it on a deep platonic level of friendship) Both of us had way too much baggage and we never spent as much time time as we should have on being honest with each other before hand. (Way too much omission) It wasn't until I was able to seek her forgiveness that we were able to start to work together to seek the answers that we needed. It took about a year before we were able to get back to the deep friendship. (Physical intimacy was not there due to severe abuse issues that happen to both of us and it was OK for the two of us) It took a lot of prayer patience and love to get through it and also setting boundaries.  I think I am getting a little melancholy.
While I do not miss the marriage (which should have never been) I do miss my best friend. (With it being the holidays and all) You never really know how much time remains to repair the damage because they may be gone tomorrow.

[ToriJo]

There are two parts of this.  First, yes, we should seek forgiveness where possible when we wrong someone.

Second, it's okay to admit you were wronged too, when you were wronged.  And it's also good to seek God's help to forgive the wrongs committed against you, as the Lord's Prayer indicates.  (what it ISN'T is to pretend that things didn't happen or to ignore them, though - it's just giving up your "right" to vengence)

Having done both in my life, I find both to be incredibly freeing.  Once I allowed myself to be wrong, I gained a lot of power in my life - I no longer needed to be perfect.  It's pretty exhausting trying to pretend to be perfect!  And forgiveness of others has let me move on with my life, without carrying around some sort of expectation of vengence on my part (I would say that forgiving another is really just saying, "Lord, I trust you to do what you will regarding this, whether it be nothing or whether it be everything.").

[Cindy]

I have often thought of this when people post that they have to be themselves and damn the consequences. It is a two way thing, and I hope I have been able to see it from both perspectives. I don't think there are any winners in these situations. Both people end up with regret, and even hate.

'We' have a terrible tendency to think it is our right to move on, but unless we have told our partners pre-weddings or whatever, we have been lieing to them. We need to accept that guilt. No matter how innocent the guilt may be. By which I mean the 'I thought being married would cure me' feelings.

I'm just not sure how we seek forgiveness. In many cases we have ruined her life, her dreams, her hopes. We may have destroyed her sexuality and her confidence.

Asking for forgiveness is the easy part. Being willing to forgive is the difficult part.

I hope I have not upset anyone, that was not my intention.

Cindy

[SarahM777]

I have often thought of this when people post that they have to be themselves and damn the consequences. It is a two way thing, and I hope I have been able to see it from both perspectives. I don't think there are any winners in these situations. Both people end up with regret, and even hate.

'We' have a terrible tendency to think it is our right to move on, but unless we have told our partners pre-weddings or whatever, we have been lieing to them. We need to accept that guilt. No matter how innocent the guilt may be. By which I mean the 'I thought being married would cure me' feelings.

I'm just not sure how we seek forgiveness. In many cases we have ruined her life, her dreams, her hopes. We may have destroyed her sexuality and her confidence.

Asking for forgiveness is the easy part. Being willing to forgive is the difficult part.

I hope I have not upset anyone, that was not my intention.

Cindy,

You are right. Maybe with showing what I did go through that it can help someone else from having to deal with one thing that I will carry for the rest of my life. When we met she had been a sober alcoholic for a little over a year. Add into that over 4 years she had to deal with a son that was in trouble with the law, a bankruptcy,unresolved sexual abuse issues ,her father committing suicide who was found in a frozen river after about 3 months,then to top it off to have to deal with me also, it was no wonder that she went back to the bottle and it ended up taking her life. (And I will never as long as I live ever forgot what she looked like the night she died. It was not a pretty picture to say the least) She was not strong enough to handle it all. The brutal honesty is that no matter how I would like to gloss over it, I had a part to play in it.

On the other side of that her family blamed me for her going back to the bottle. While it's true I did have a hand in that I can not take all the blame only the part I played. If the two of us had worked on some of these issues before hand perhaps the outcome would have been different.

While forgiveness can restore the relationship (the two of us did have some really good times afterwards and were able to start understanding each other) but there were still consequences. We tend to forget that even though Jesus told the thief on the cross that he was going to be with Him in paradise that very day, the thief still died. I have no doubt that God and my wife did forgive me for the part I played but I will have to deal with the times that the guilty feelings still crop up and I hope that by writing this down someone else can avoid these things and not have to go through this.

Sarah

[SarahM777]

Duh.

Why did I not see this before. I know I have mentioned about the freedoms and boundaries that have been placed on me and I think I need to explain.

On one hand I am no longer to wear men's suits,ties,dress shirts and pants or shoes. But on the other hand I am also not at this time to wear dresses and skirts. It's because there are those that will perceive it as a lie at this time because my body is not yet at that point. They need to be able to see the person inside and not focus on the external. 
Small earrings,very light nail polish,lip gloss is OK but no dark colors.
Gender neutral to somewhat feminine clothing is OK because it matches what's both on the inside and outside.

I need to finish this thought as I did not have time this morning before I left. Please I am using this in context of going to church. If I were to go to church all of a sudden all dressed up in manner that no one has seen yet I end up being the focus instead of God being the focus. It also allows another to be tempted along the lines of gossip etc. In others words God has given me some freedoms but I am not to use them to place a stumbling block in front of them.

[annette]

Hi Sarah

As you know I'm not a believer in religion, so I don't have a view from Christianity, but what you wrote here was touching me.
The very fact that you have been thinking about how others did feel about your transition, have my deepest respect.
Most of the time things are viewed from the perspective of the one who is going trough transition but, as you mentioned, there are others with struggles too, others with pain, others with a feeling of insecurity.

It's so great of you to see this point of view too.
I think that's the real Christian spirit, that one will take care of others beside oneself.

hugs
Annette

[Kristyn74]

I don't know if this will help but..

I came from a religious upbringing and my father bashed my mother and myself. when i had finally had enough i left home at 27.being in a controlling relationship ,I had to separate myself from my mother for fear she would get bashed for seeing me.
Now I'm 37 and my mother has found the courage to leave him [.In her case it was the "control freak' not my mother although she did suggest he would get better and they needed to get back together to make it look good in the eyes of the church.]
With my support,however i suggested that she couldn't just come over and have 'happy families' again,but expressed that she needed to get through her divorce first .as i believe she wouldnt necessarily be able to make good judge on things.
SO I'm at the waiting game in occasionally seeing her but also keeping my distance.I believe it will all work out. she has expressed her apologies...its in the actions from here on in.No apology is needed if you know the circumstances surrounding certain cases just understanding.

Kristyn

[tekla]

Relationships are like those beautiful hand-blown, hand-painted antique German Xmas tree ornaments.  Unique, special, high quality and very fragile.  Usually when you drop one and it breaks it never really gets back to what it once was, or even what you might hope for.  People can (thank god) move on - but it also tends to take as much time to get out as it did to get in so whatever amount of time it was that you made another person miserable for, double it, for they had to keep on dealing with it long after you split.  And that 'dealing with it' often results in that person winding up in a very different place, as a very different person.

My favorite part of LotR is where Aragorn has to walk the Paths of the Dead.  In order for that to work,  Aragorn has to do the one thing he's avoided doing throughout, which is to take his claim as Isildur's heir and direct descendant - he has to become the king.  And when Aragorn comes out of that mountain he is no longer the same person, the experience has changed him (It's really the only character change in the entire trilogy, everyone else just becomes themselves, but more so, Aragorn actually changes).   And we all walk the same Paths of the Dead in our own lives, coming out of them very different from when we went in. 


I'm just not sure how we seek forgiveness. In many cases we have ruined her life, her dreams, her hopes. We may have destroyed her sexuality and her confidence.  Asking for forgiveness is the easy part. Being willing to forgive is the difficult part.

Dixie Chicks, about something else, but works perfectly...
Forgive, sounds good
Forget, I'm not sure I could
They say time heals everything
But I'm still waiting
...
I'm not ready to make nice
I'm not ready to back down
I'm still mad as hell and
I don't have time to go round and round and round
It's too late to make it right
I probably wouldn't if I could
'Cause I'm mad as hell
Can't bring myself to do what it is you think I should

I know you said
Can't you just get over it
It turned my whole world around
And I kind of like it

you did your part so you no longer need to feel convicted
Ahh, and this is what people like about religion, so what if you screwed up her life, as Cindy wisely pointed out your actions messed with another persons's life, dreams and caused them levels of pain, grief, and doubt that they would not have had if you had not shown up in their life in the first place.  That's a huge point.  They have every right to hold you accountable for your actions and to not let you off the hook just because now you are thinking something different or are in a different space.  You might have to really, really work at it.  You might owe that person - the whole 'make ammends' thing, which is taken to just saying 'I'm sorry' like that cures all, what amends really means is:  compensation for a loss or injury - and a lot of  others a lot more than an "I'm sorry."  You might have to try to 'pay it forward' and even out the wheel of karma in that way.

[SarahM777]

As you know I'm not a believer in religion, so I don't have a view from Christianity, but what you wrote here was touching me.
The very fact that you have been thinking about how others did feel about your transition, have my deepest respect.
Most of the time things are viewed from the perspective of the one who is going trough transition but, as you mentioned, there are others with struggles too, others with pain, others with a feeling of insecurity.

It's so great of you to see this point of view too.
I think that's the real Christian spirit, that one will take care of others beside oneself.

Annette,

I really think this is one area where those that do not believe take a look at those of us who claim to be Christian and can point out the hypocrisy. To often we are so busy pointing fingers at others to look and see how what we are saying and doing is affecting someone else. It's part of the proverbial where the rubber hits the road.

Relationships are like those beautiful hand-blown, hand-painted antique German Xmas tree ornaments.  Unique, special, high quality and very fragile.  Usually when you drop one and it breaks it never really gets back to what it once was, or even what you might hope for.  People can (thank god) move on - but it also tends to take as much time to get out as it did to get in so whatever amount of time it was that you made another person miserable for, double it, for they had to keep on dealing with it long after you split.  And that 'dealing with it' often results in that person winding up in a very different place, as a very different person.

My favorite part of LotR is where Aragorn has to walk the Paths of the Dead.  In order for that to work,  Aragorn has to do the one thing he's avoided doing throughout, which is to take his claim as Isildur's heir and direct descendant - he has to become the king.  And when Aragorn comes out of that mountain he is no longer the same person, the experience has changed him (It's really the only character change in the entire trilogy, everyone else just becomes themselves, but more so, Aragorn actually changes).   And we all walk the same Paths of the Dead in our own lives, coming out of them very different from when we went in. 


I'm just not sure how we seek forgiveness. In many cases we have ruined her life, her dreams, her hopes. We may have destroyed her sexuality and her confidence.  Asking for forgiveness is the easy part. Being willing to forgive is the difficult part.

Dixie Chicks, about something else, but works perfectly...
Forgive, sounds good
Forget, I'm not sure I could
They say time heals everything
But I'm still waiting
...
I'm not ready to make nice
I'm not ready to back down
I'm still mad as hell and
I don't have time to go round and round and round
It's too late to make it right
I probably wouldn't if I could
'Cause I'm mad as hell
Can't bring myself to do what it is you think I should

I know you said
Can't you just get over it
It turned my whole world around
And I kind of like it

you did your part so you no longer need to feel convicted
Ahh, and this is what people like about religion, so what if you screwed up her life, as Cindy wisely pointed out your actions messed with another persons's life, dreams and caused them levels of pain, grief, and doubt that they would not have had if you had not shown up in their life in the first place.  That's a huge point.  They have every right to hold you accountable for your actions and to not let you off the hook just because now you are thinking something different or are in a different space.  You might have to really, really work at it.  You might owe that person - the whole 'make ammends' thing, which is taken to just saying 'I'm sorry' like that cures all, what amends really means is:  compensation for a loss or injury - and a lot of  others a lot more than an "I'm sorry."  You might have to try to 'pay it forward' and even out the wheel of karma in that way.

Tekla,

You are right. Seeking true forgiveness is so much more than saying "I'm sorry'. All that does is place a band aid on a very deep wound.

Here again way to often those that do not believe see us that claim to be Christian go to church on Sunday sit in the pew and have either the priest or minister say a few words pronounce forgiveness to those there and then everything is A OK  and then we can continue on as if nothing happened (Kind of like the mob guy that goes to the priest and is told to say a few hail Mary's but is never told to change his ways). And that is so far from the truth when in reality we need to humble ourselves, make amends as best as we can and work through it in patience and love and also realize that it make take a long time to get through (And it is also possible that the other person may never get to the point of being able to forgive us)

[SarahM777]

One of the others things we forget is the trust issue. Someone may be able to forgive and work through a lot of issues but once the trust is broken that is often the hardest thing to repair. It will take the longest to repair. Just using this as an example if I have been caught stealing at work is it right for me to expect that just because I have asked your forgiveness and restored the stolen property and made amends (If you hadn't fired me before this) to expect that I would be given the combo to the safe until as such time has passed and I have worked this out to where my boss could trust me again?