I have ->-bleeped-<-. Is 20 too late to pass *attractively*? (pics)

[Jeneva]

Hormones can be easily gotten from clinics in every major metropolitan area. You can get your blood levels checked every 6 months like I do.

I've been doing this on my own the past 3 years and I don't think therapy is always necessary. People don't need a medical supervisor to be themselves. However, if they feel the need to, then yes. But there are other alternatives.

That is great that you have local informed consent clinics.  Not all of us live in places that do. 

As you said there are always places to go to get hormones if you do it on your own like you did and like I did even.  However the OFFICIAL policy of this board is no DIY talk.

But surgery DOES need letters.  The only exceptions I know of now, is the Dr in ATL that will do orchi as informed consent.  I'm sure that some foreign Drs can be bought, but it is expensive enough already.

[Jaime]

A good therapist can be helpful in more than just getting your letters too. There are many things you have to deal with during transition and if you don't have a good support system in your life, they can guide you through some rough times so you can hopefully come out of it without being a bitter, angry person from having to deal with the numerous asses that will pop up from time to time or quite regularly, depending.

[Jeneva]

A good therapist can be helpful in more than just getting your letters too. There are many things you have to deal with during transition and if you don't have a good support system in your life, they can guide you through some rough times so you can hopefully come out of it without being a bitter, angry person from having to deal with the numerous asses that will pop up from time to time or quite regularly, depending.

That is also a great point.  I had serious issues with my family even before I came out.  I had finally reached a point where I wanted to be my own person and every time I went against what they wanted it was a huge fight.  Just decided to make my part of the family land organic was months of cold shoulders and put downs.  I don't think I'd still be around without someone to help me put how they act in perspective and to understand that it is ok to be myself even if they don't like it.

[Mahsa Tezani]

A good therapist can be helpful in more than just getting your letters too. There are many things you have to deal with during transition and if you don't have a good support system in your life, they can guide you through some rough times so you can hopefully come out of it without being a bitter, angry person from having to deal with the numerous asses that will pop up from time to time or quite regularly, depending.

I've been through hell and back. Nothing in my transition I can't handle.

[cynthialee]

A proper gender therapist should be able to refer clients to more than just an endo or doctor for HRT. There is more to transition than just hormones and surgery. Voice, deportment, fashion and socialization are all important facets.

[Joandelynn]

Is there any point in going to a therapist? because honestly I don't see what she could tell me that you guys haven't already said.

Don't listen to people on a forum, go to a professional. Go to an experienced therapist. Seriously!

You still believe that there is something like ->-bleeped-<-, even though many people on this thread already explained to you that ->-bleeped-<- is a nonsense theory. The only thing that comes close to ->-bleeped-<- is transvestic fetishism. I am not saying that that's what you are having, but it could be, and transitioning for a fetish is a very bad idea. Are you even aware of the fact that hormones may reduce your sexdrive?

If it's not transvestic fetishism, but actual transsexualism, then you first should understand that being transsexual is more than just having a female body. It means actual living like a female, 24/7, with everything that comes with that. It means losing male privilege, getting a job as a girl, etc, etc, etc.

On the 12th you posted that you were considering to become a drag queen, and now it's full transition again. My impression is that you haven't got a clue what you are getting yourself into and why you are doing it. Seriously, go to a professional therapist first before you do anything stupid which you may regret later.

[Rebekah with a K-A-H]

Don't listen to people on a forum, go to a professional. Go to an experienced therapist. Seriously!

You still believe that there is something like ->-bleeped-<-, even though many people on this thread already explained to you that ->-bleeped-<- is a nonsense theory. The only thing that comes close to ->-bleeped-<- is transvestic fetishism. I am not saying that that's what you are having, but it could be, and transitioning for a fetish is a very bad idea. Are you even aware of the fact that hormones may reduce your sexdrive?

If it's not transvestic fetishism, but actual transsexualism, then you first should understand that being transsexual is more than just having a female body. It means actual living like a female, 24/7, with everything that comes with that. It means losing male privilege, getting a job as a girl, etc, etc, etc.

On the 12th you posted that you were considering to become a drag queen, and now it's full transition again. My impression is that you haven't got a clue what you are getting yourself into and why you are doing it. Seriously, go to a professional therapist first before you do anything stupid which you may regret later.

Okayyy.

So, like, far be it from me to discourage you, specifically, jdinatale, from checkin' in to a therapist because you're not sure exactly what you want and that merits thinking about at a more intensive level than you might otherwise do on your own.  The kind of therapist you'd also want to go to might have answers to a lot of questions that you might have in your mind but don't know the answers to.

But whoa there, nelly.  Let's not define this person's condition/mental state for them.

Joandelynn, I don't like the theory of  ->-bleeped-<-.  It makes me uncomfortable, its description of prevalence and classification by Blanchard is reductionist and insulting and reduces homosexuality and bisexuality to the sexual fetishes of a deluded straight dude, and all in all I think its use and attempt to cast a net that includes every AMAB trans* person is really insulting (first, because it makes the assumption that all trans* people are the same, and second, because somehow trans* masculine individuals are just an inconvenient after that) and woefully inaccurate.

That said, what you're doing here is telling someone their identity is wrong.  "You're not ->-bleeped-<-.  We've already explained to you that ->-bleeped-<- doesn't exist."  Let's compare that with something that I may have heard from certain evangelical Christians.  Maybe this sounds similar?  "You're not gay.  I already told you that it's a choice and not a real sexual orientation." Or this? "You're not trans, or female, and you'll never be a real womyn."

(Aaaalso, your mileage may drastically vary on the whole sex drive deal.  I'm a fiend now.)

If jdinatale identifies as autogynephilic, that is, that they (I'm using they for lack of a marker for identified sex, but please tell me if you'd prefer another pronoun) feel sexually aroused by the thought of themselves as a woman (as categorically separate from "envisioning sex as a woman," you folks who resolutely claim that "everyone is ->-bleeped-<-, even cis women".  Cis women don't pop ladyboners at the thought of putting on a hoodie and jeans to go buy milk at the local 7-Eleven, and that's what the perceived separation between  ->-bleeped-<- and normal sexual arousal from sexual thoughts which are, sex-positivity mode go!, perfectly normal and nothing to be afraid of!), then so it is.  Jdinatale, if you identify as autogynephilic, god bless you.

I don't actually personally believe that "true transsexuals" are the only people entitled to transition.  Sure, the whole concept is probably catered to them, but let's not be so trans*phobic (only now, we're talking about the umbrella) to believe that people shouldn't be allowed to do whatever the sam hell they want with their bodies.  As long as everyone who's going to use them knows what's going to happen, I support hormones being available with the ease of candy.  (For what it's worth, I can't really speak to the concept of losing male privilege.  I'm aware that I had it when I passed as male, but I think it's more keenly felt by those who transition when they're older.  I'm 19, so that complex never really held relevance to me.)

I occasionally have doubts that I'm a bona fide, genuine transsexual person.  But I'm definitely trans*, and I'm comforted by the thought that it doesn't actually matter whether I'm a "real transsexual", because I'm happy with how I am, and that's what's important.  So basically, jdinatale, identify however the hell you want if the identify has the right mouth-feel for you, and don't let other people try to bring you down about it if it makes you feel all warm 'n fuzzy inside.

(An addendum: I agree with Mahsa on the point that I think occasionally, therapy is totally irrelevant.  I'm currently slogging through a round of "working relationship construction" with a therapist who's going to be writing my second surgery letter, and it's painfully clear that I don't need this dude's therapy because I'm fine.  And there really isn't much more to transition as a form of actually changing your sex than hormones and surgery.  One need not have a woman's fashion, behavior, or socialization to be female, and one also, I'd argue, doesn't need that if one doesn't want it.)

[Joandelynn]

That said, what you're doing here is telling someone their identity is wrong. 

I am just trying to warn someone here. I have read a lot of regretter stories, and one very often reoccurring theme is people transitioning for erotic reasons. Another often reoccurring theme is that these regretters were heavily influenced by the transgender community, which is exactly what seems to be going on in this thread.

I don't believe that transition is for anyone. If you are not born transsexual, then identifying as one will not make you one. And if you transition while you are not transsexual, then you will ironically become one and end up in their shoes. That is why I brought up the job example, this is not just about changing the body, it is about changing your entire life experience.

I still believe that Jdinitale should go to an experienced gender therapist. I don't believe everyone needs a therapist, but I see way too many red flags in this thread to skip that step. If you want to transition, then go ahead, but do it properly prepared. This is not a game.

[Bishounen]

Firstly, I just got to say that Wonderdyke wrote an absolutely excellent post.


Secondly;

I am just trying to warn someone here. I have read a lot of regretter stories, and one very often reoccurring theme is people transitioning for erotic reasons. Another often reoccurring theme is that these regretters were heavily influenced by the transgender community, which is exactly what seems to be going on in this thread.

I don't believe that transition is for anyone. If you are not born transsexual, then identifying as one will not make you one. And if you transition while you are not transsexual, then you will ironically become one and end up in their shoes. That is why I brought up the job example, this is not just about changing the body, it is about changing your entire life experience.

I still believe that Jdinitale should go to an experienced gender therapist. I don't believe everyone needs a therapist, but I see way too many red flags in this thread to skip that step. If you want to transition, then go ahead, but do it properly prepared. This is not a game.

I agree and disagree with various parts in your post. I agree with the "cheering on" in the Transgendered community you describes. In my opinion, someone basically just has to put on a wig and set foot in the Community and ask "Do I look like a girl now?" and everyone will say "Oh yes you are totally passable and meant to be a girl- GO for it!"
I understand that the people cheering on means well. Sort of. But that well meaning can in the end turn out very unfortunate if the person that gets cheered on is not someone that would benefit from transition at all but goes ahead and does it anyway.

And as for non-transsexual people transitioning and ending up as transsexuals and being hit by the reality of Life, well, those points are true aswell. However, there are non-transsexual people transitioning all the time, and while some of them very correctly end up being regretters, others of them comes out truly happy, although they may in actuality be nothing else than really feminine "gay" males/Or butches) or even intense crossdressers.
Yet others, that have done it for fetishistic reasons, almost "wants" that regret, and when it sets in, they get the biggest turn-on from being trapped in a female body and lives constantly in a sort of sexual climax thereafter. Odd, but everyone is different, even transitioners.

Then, ofcourse, there are also those that do not really want to transition per se, but nonetheless alter parts of their bodies, such as breasts, face or even full SRS, but remains in their traditional gender role because they simply have no urge for anything else than the bodily alterations they have done.

Anyway, there are a lot of reasons why non-transsexual people would drastically change their bodies for life and yet become truly happy, and just as many reasons why some people shopuldn't, as they would turn out miserable.

[AubreyRenee]

Omigod, I'm totally stealing that style idea. Your hair is fab!

I'll echo what everybody else has said in this thread. ->-bleeped-<- is a quack's way of explaining transsexuality. It's championed by Blanchard and Zucker, two people who just so happen to also believe in reparative therapy for transsexuals. The correlation is no coincidence. Find a local trans support group/LGBT center and use their network to find a competent therapist. It's worth the effort, believe you me.

As for "too late" at age twenty... come off it! At twenty you're still in the throes of puberty - when you take T out of the driver's seat your body will mold into something completely, totally new and different, in ways you can't even possibly imagine when you're standing at the precipice of transition. Estrogen is a powerful, powerful tool for shaping bodies, and by the end you'll look like your closest female relatives.

Take it from someone who used to be a wrestler, super-masculine, the whole nine; started transition at 23; and now is told on a daily basis that she's attractive, cute, sexy, whatever. As long as you put in the effort you will be passable and you will be pretty. (However, don't think this is just a "take pill, be girl" sort of thing - you will have to work and work _hard_ to be passable. But considering the discipline inherent in maintaining such a sculpted body in that photo I think you'll do swimmingly.)

Thanks, Here is a more recent without glasses. I still need a haircut. I'm thinking once I get a girl hair cut, things will look much better. lol.
There is another thread on here with many girl's before and after. I think its even called before and after. The last post wasn't that long, so it should be within the first 4 pages or so.

And regarding on how I perceive myself. Well I'm still trying to see her ( I do from time to time). The hardest part is to see the girl in the mirror, just because you have seen the guy for 20 years or so. That is one of the hardest parts. Everyone else will see a girl before you do.

[Jen61]

I am just trying to warn someone here. I have read a lot of regretter stories, and one very often reoccurring theme is people transitioning for erotic reasons. Another often reoccurring theme is that these regretters were heavily influenced by the transgender community, which is exactly what seems to be going on in this thread.

I still believe that Jdinitale should go to an experienced gender therapist. I don't believe everyone needs a therapist, but I see way too many red flags in this thread to skip that step. If you want to transition, then go ahead, but do it properly prepared. This is not a game.

Very truthful  ! Jdinatale seems to be very confused and misled. IMHO, in-depth therapy should be persued before any HTR.

[Mahsa Tezani]

Secondly;
I agree and disagree with various parts in your post. I agree with the "cheering on" in the Transgendered community you describes. In my opinion, someone basically just has to put on a wig and set foot in the Community and ask "Do I look like a girl now?" and everyone will say "Oh yes you are totally passable and meant to be a girl- GO for it!"
I understand that the people cheering on means well. Sort of. But that well meaning can in the end turn out very unfortunate if the person that gets cheered on is not someone that would benefit from transition at all but goes ahead and does it anyway.

I certainly have a better life in my transition. But I sometimes why I didn't just stay a gay man. Of course, the first two year of my transition...I completely ignored the trans community and got advice from my drag queen, gay makeup friends, etc. Gay men don't pussyfoot around and they will tell you straight up what is wrong. I think much of the cheering here is unrealistic at best. As a former gay male, I know how what makes a girl attractive and although I prefer men a million times more I am not blind. I also don't find tgirls at large to be that attractive. I find most of them looking like half assed DQs without the work and effort. If I find one a attractive here...I tell them. But chances are I'd be attracted to them as a male and I do like feminine men.

Well one thing you've got to understand is that many transgender people see each other through "rose colored glasses". Some of them can't tell the difference between male and female faces, etc. I think people want to be supportive instead of truthful. The best criticism comes when people are both.

Thats why I am here. I mean yeah, I look like I should be on RuPaul's Drag Race and I am a transgender performer. But I "pass"... I wouldn't have done this if I didn't have the raw materials as a boy. Some people might debate that I don't, since whatever xyz and that taught me that no transition is fool proof. But to most people, I am overall perceived as a cisfemale...But at 5'5", 140 and petite as all hell. I got lucky. But honestly, I've seen SF drag queens who make better women than a lot of the girls in the "Do I pass?" thread. But gay men for whatever reason have prettier faces and have already done the basic work(plucked eyebrows, good skin, etc) before they transition. They also know how to socialize and have bull->-bleeped-<- detectors.

Truth is, a lot of men are born with features that won't be flattering as a female. The refusal to even wear basic foundation or "blend" in with females is more damaging overall. I hate that much of that is enforced on the board... But I also realize there's nothing I can do about it. Most people aren't from San Francisco and they don't have the option of being an extremely femme male before they transition.

I'd almost prefer you get into drag. You could really get your body in order, learn a lot about all kinds of cosmetics, learn how to enhance your image before you actually transition instead of half ass "x-dressing". Then go from there.

[rosetyler]

my family is devoutly religious. I know everyone usually says that, but my family is even more so. I come from a Mormon household and if you don't know anything about Mormons, they are the most hardcore conservative Christians out there.  Even a guy getting an ear piercing is grounds for ostracism.

My parents don't know what my problem is, but they know I have a severe one and they worry themselves to death over it. They repeatedly claim that I can pray the problem away, and that with enough faith "God can heal anything." It wouldn't matter if my psychologist and I told them how I tried everything possible to live as a heterosexual male, they would still claim God could fix it. How in the world do you explain something like this to your parents who believe God can fix anything?

Hi Jdinatale.  I'm an active (cis)Mormon and I've figured out how to reconcile transsexuality with my religion.  If you'd like, I can PM you some stuff that might help your parents and family come to terms with transsexuality.  Just let me know.

[Jeneva]

Truth is, a lot of men are born with features that won't be flattering as a female. The refusal to even wear basic foundation or "blend" in with females is more damaging overall. I hate that much of that is enforced on the board... But I also realize there's nothing I can do about it. Most people aren't from San Francisco and they don't have the option of being an extremely femme male before they transition.

Why do you feel that this board pushes against even basic foundation?  Perhaps there aren't a lot of threads in the makeup section, but that doesn't mean it is frowned upon.

Unless something is really odd (or urgent time crunch) if I leave the house I have on foundation and probably a medium pink lipstick.  However until recently my wife rarely wore even foundation and only ultra rarely lipstick (lots of chapstick though).  Most of the women I have worked with (in the professional sector) don't wear much more than foundation and sometimes lipstick either.

As a makeup consultant it may be perfectly acceptable for you to have fully done your eyes and brows, but is that realistic for an average professional worker?  Certainly not around here.

One of our cousins wears full make-up but she is a total air head deadbeat and usually looks like a clown [when you see her actually moving around].

The only other person I know is another local transwoman hair styles that also does moonlight drag shows.  Of all the people in the salon she works at she sticks out BECAUSE of the makeup, not blending in better because of it.  She is certainly a really nice person, and if she feels more comfortable that way then good for her.

[Jen61]

Jdinatale,

Do a Google image search of: "typical DQ," then do the same but with "typical transsexual woman."

Notice the difference?


A true DQ is a MAN  who makes a living impersonating a woman. If a DQ gets HRT and SRS, then this person is a WOMAN pretending to be a MAN impersonating a WOMAN. That in my book is a fraud.

Now, Honey, 

You said you want to the a financial engineer, and certainly with a 3.95 GPA you stand a good chance to enter a graduate program and get a Ph.D in finaces. However, I see it very difficult persuing your career or education while looking like a DQ. DQ belong to  the stage or the "red districts" not in corporate America or Academia.

At the end it is your decision and your life!

I am just expressing my humble opinion; I do have a senior postion on a 75,000 people company, and I am transitioning in the job.

[fionabell]

I believe in ->-bleeped-<-. But I believe gg's have it too. It's obvious when they are dolled up in town they are enjoying themselves as much as we enjoy ourselves.

Your face could easily be a girl face. I say go for it. You might want to freeze your sperm first

[Mahsa Tezani]

Here is a DQ picture I randomly pull out of Goggle Images


and here is a picture of a typical  "transsexual woman"






I do not know who this ladies are, and I am showing them jsut to make the point that the DG is a MAN  who makes a liging inpersonating a woman. If a DQ gets HRT and SRS, then this person is a WOMAN pretending to be a MAN impersonating a WOMAN. That in my book is a fraud.

Transsexual woman


Drag queen

The DQ looks a billion times better, btw.

I'm a fraud...I admit it.

Images don't work, btw.

Really? Both are technically born "men" dressed as women regardless of surgical status. I see ts women as women and drags are men's feminine side. It's just really a change of perspective. Sure, the TS might have gotten the fat distribution but the bone structure(which is a huge gender indicator) is still the same. Many men who do drag have good jobs in the fashion, hair, and finance industry. Yes, they are gay... But the gays have succeded in the past 20 yrs. Sorry TG performers don't meet your standards of what a "woman" is hun.

SRS just gives the appearance of a vagina btw as it's using the penis as the starting point. Just as drag makes the gay man feel whole in himself, so does srs...Have some respect.

[Mahsa Tezani]

DQ belong to  the stage or the "red districts" not in corporate America or Academia.

I am just expressing my humble opinion; I do have a senior postion on a 75,000 people company, and I am transitioning in the job.

So gay men don't belong in corporate America? Most of the gay men I know do drag and hold corporate positions, as well as jobs in fashion, marketing, training, etc

Good for you. But did you crossdress before transition? You're no different than the gay man who works in your corporation who does drag on the weekends. Only difference is really perspective. I can't forget you have six kids and you once presented as their "dad".

[Jen61]

hey, Jdinatale,

Do you see any "giants" of the finace world in the list of  "famous DQ"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_drag_queens

All I see is mostly famous male performers

[Mahsa Tezani]

hey, Jdinatale,

Do you see any "giants" of the finace world in the list of  "famous DQ"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_drag_queens

All I see is mostly famous male performers

So what? You're better than everyone. I know this for a fact. LOL. I know you're "trannier than thou" than everyone on this board.

Stop overcompensating for the fact that you have six children and were a successful "male" for 50 yrs of your life. A gay man's femininity is no different than you transitioning to the outsider anyways. J