Sodom and Gomorrah

[Jamie D]

Like Abraham being asked to sacrifice his [son,] some of these things are considered to be tests of faith.

(Edit - good catch Peky!)

[peky]

Like Abraham being asked to sacrifice his (son), some of these things are considered to be tests of faith.

A "test of faith" presumes implicitly that God does not know the outcome, so much for omniscient


BTW: Thanks for "resurrecting" this thread

[Shantel]

A "test of faith" presumes implicitly that God does not know the outcome, so much for omniscient


BTW: Thanks for "resurrecting" this thread

The "test of faith" is what the believer does since he or she doesn't know the outcome!

[peky]

The "test of faith" is what the believer does since he or she doesn't know the outcome!

The "test of faith" is no self imposed, but alledgelly imposed by God, to test his servants; my point remains valid.

[Shantel]

The "test of faith" is no self imposed, but alledgelly imposed by God, to test his servants; my point remains valid.

It's a two way street! For instance when the Hebrews crossed the Red Sea and spend another forty years wandering around in the desert, it was a test of faith. God was testing them to trust in Him and they were trusting Him to deliver them out of bondage into a better life. Tests of faith go both ways.

[Annah]

A "test of faith" presumes implicitly that God does not know the outcome, so much for omniscient


BTW: Thanks for "resurrecting" this thread

a test of faith does not presume implicitly that God does not know the outcome. A test of faith is for a person that does not know the outcome but trusts God is nevertheless in control and it is in God's wisdom that whatever outcome happens from the test of faith is done for the spiritual betterment of the individual.

[Jamie D]

a test of faith does not presume implicitly that God does not know the outcome. A test of faith is for a person that does not know the outcome but trusts God is nevertheless in control and it is in God's wisdom that whatever outcome happens from the test of faith is done for the spiritual betterment of the individual.

Nicely state, Annah.

[peky]

a test of faith does not presume implicitly that God does not know the outcome. A test of faith is for a person that does not know the outcome but trusts God is nevertheless in control and it is in God's wisdom that whatever outcome happens from the test of faith is done for the spiritual betterment of the individual.

It took 7 days for God to create the Universe, and 6 days for Annah to be resurrected to Susan's place   

I knew you could not stay away for to long, and miss all this oportunities to defend the faith. (I think we should have a thread on the virtues and rewards of defending the faith).  In any case welcome back!

As for the thread you could reformat the the "test" to be all about the humans, so to fit your ideology, yet  the center the point remains: either we have free will, or God is not omniscient, can have it both ways

[Annah]

Actually, I believe it took billions of years for the Universe to be created but that's for another topic.

I'm pretty much lingering around. My posting had decreased dramatically due to other Seminary commitments. But I enjoy posting in the religious section.

But back to topic

If one believes in predestination or that God elects those in whom God gives grace to, that would not take away a sense of omniscient. Also, if one has free will, that does not take away from God's omniscient attributes either.

Hundreds of documents and dozens of official confessions from both Free Will churches and Reformed Churches (Predestination) believes that God is omniscient.

The Free will types of churches (Some Anabaptist, Dodrecht, MCC, AG, Baptists) believes that we have free will through a conversion experience and holds onto the belief that God is omniscient.

Predestination or elect churches (confessions of Trent, Lutherans, Augsberg confession, 2nd Helvetic, Westminster, and Heidelberg) believes that God presents grace to us and there is no form of conversion that will earn it to us. God simply gives it to us. These churches also believe God is omniscient.

A being can give someone free will and still know the outcome of everything and know everything there is to know. Free will doesn't put place blinders on an omniscient God. Also, predestination does not either.

Free will in terms to "salvation" simply means God gives you the decision...purely your decision, on whether or not to follow God. In the end God does know what decision the person will make but it will not be through the efforts of God making the decision for the person. Hence, Omniscient is still available and free will is still practiced.

The same is true for predestination. Just because God gives you the choice freely without you trying to earn it, does not take away from God's omniscience.