Do Hormones change your sexual orientation? I don't understand how.

[Adrasteia]

For what it may be worth, there's not a very good scientific consensus on the effects of pheromones in humans. Smell, on the other hands, has seen a good deal of controlled scrutiny and is an incredibly powerful sense.

Personally, changes in sexual orientation worry me a bit. My girlfriend/partner is dealing with a lot already, and I'd rather not throw sexuality on the top of the pile. I'm generally attracted to females or to individuals who present as female, but time will tell.

[vlmitchell]

Hm.

Well, I'm at about 2.5 years on HRT and here's what I noticed:

- The 'eyes snap to boobs and butts on girls' reflex went away.
- Most of the floral smell from my GG partner went away.
- Guys now smell spicy in a good way.
- Guys are also now drool inducingly preeeeeeety at times where as before they were just attractive or handsome.
- I can't tell as easily if a woman is supposed to be normatively sexually attractive.

Overall, there's certainly been a drift in what I feel towards people I'm attracted to. I'm guessing that this is mostly hormonal though I suppose I was always bi so, ymmv?

On the topic of Gene/Not gene... that's silly. Chemistry doesn't work like that (DNA is chemistry gone wild, folks). A hormone is a genetic manipulator, binding to and telling certain genes to become active (breasts, anyone?) and others to go dormant by their absence (muscle mass, etc etc etc). Soooo... the results of HRT on the individual are largely dependent on the genetic makeup of that person (which is why your boobs are more or less the same size as your moms even years after puberty has completed). Turning on all the female sex parts of your genetic code will more or less make you susceptible to whatever you would have been susceptible to as a GG. Your sexual orientation is likely that combined with your social makeup... sheesh people make this conversation overly complex. Being full on homosexual probably just means that those parts of your code are wired for the particular chemistry you've got at the time. What you do with it is up to you.

[Adrasteia]

All of that, plus the fact that the presence of a gene doesn't mean that you are a thing or you behave a certain way.  I wish I remembered the guy's name, but not too long ago someone got their full DNA test done and wrote a short book(?) about it, drawing particular attention to tendencies that his genes would indicate that he didn't see expressed in himself.  For example, iirc he had the 'baldness' gene but still carried a full head of hair late into life.

[peky]

Okay, I don't want to upset anybody, but there is no good scientific evidence that non-heterosexual orientation is controlled by a gene.  I do not preclude a complex interaction between genes, but it has not been demonstrated.

It seems to me that sexual orientation is much more likely controlled by brain chemistry and environmental factors.

Separated identical twins studies more or less demolish the "gay gene" theory.

So, ask yourself, does the onset of HR effect brain chemistry?

Some neuronal networks seem to be fixed in early embryonic development (before 6 weeks of gestation), other seems to be fixed during fetal development, and some perinatal. Some are fix for good, soem change soemhow, some are continuosly changing. Brain imaging of pre and post HTR TS folks seems to indicate that some neuronal process are changed by HRT, while others remain fix. Don't you love mother nature?

OK, in a succinct way: there is evidence of some gender specific chemistry in the brain, there is also gender specific centers (which are anatomically and biochemically gender specific; to our interst, it seems there is a master center for gender identity, and a master center for sexual orientation. Whether this centers develop in concordance with your genotype seems to depend on the interaction of specific genes, receptors, and presence or absence of testosterone and Estradiol (for the females the presence of alpha feto protein 1. Ok, lets add also, that  there is evidence that environmental factors such stress and xenoestrogens and other drugs exposures seems to be involved in their expression. There is even the documented case of a dude who smoked a vick-vaporub inhaler, and reported to the emergency room demanding SRS , three days later when the effects subside, he returned to be your normal cis block, he had never had an history of CD or TG/TS. I am sure his family would never let him forget LOL

The main point is that we have but just begun to scratch the surface of how the brain works. Yet, the take home lesson so far is that gender identity and sexual orientation are interconnected and mostly determined by biology.

[Constance]

/* I'm NOT a medical professional. */

I've heard it said that one of the most important sexual organs in the human body is the brain.

I can attest to the fact that HRT causes physical changes in one's body: I'm growing breasts. So, if hormones can cause such physical changes, why would they not affect the brain as well? And if the brain is an important sexual organ, it doesn't seem so surprising that HRT can affect sexual orientation.

But, if I understood Annah's reply properly, correlation of what's observed is not necessarily the same as describing a cause-and-effect chain. There could factors other than just a change of my body/brain chemistry as a result of HRT.

[chrishoney]

If there is a gay gene, it is not altered by hormones - that is impossible.

Actually a burgeoning new field of biological investigation called epigenetics is proving this statement to be patently false. The idea that the genome controls it's own expression in an individual organism is the central dogma of biology. The problem is, it was NEVER established by scientific study. Expression of the genome IS modifiable by the environment. This is an established experimental phenomenon. An individual cell interacts with it's environment through its cell membrane, NOT the nucleus. An organism interacts with it's environment through the mind. We know that estrogen mediates its effects on particular cells via the cell membrane which signals the genetic material of any particular cell to behave in very specific ways (depending on the cell  of course.) If there is a "gay gene" it seems highly likely that it would be sensitive to the presence, absence or both, of sex hormones. Genes obviously ARE affected by hormones as that is how estrogen feminizes male bodied individuals; in fact that is how estrogen affects everybody's cells

For a better explanation of Epigenetics, see Bruce Lipton's  "The Biology of Belief" in which he proposes the theory that the mind controls the genome, and therefore you can affect the expression of your personal genome by your thoughts.

[Jamie D]

Some neuronal networks seem to be fixed in early embryonic development (before 6 weeks of gestation), other seems to be fixed during fetal development, and some perinatal. Some are fix for good, soem change soemhow, some are continuosly changing. Brain imaging of pre and post HTR TS folks seems to indicate that some neuronal process are changed by HRT, while others remain fix. Don't you love mother nature?

OK, in a succinct way: there is evidence of some gender specific chemistry in the brain, there is also gender specific centers (which are anatomically and biochemically gender specific; to our interst, it seems there is a master center for gender identity, and a master center for sexual orientation. Whether this centers develop in concordance with your genotype seems to depend on the interaction of specific genes, receptors, and presence or absence of testosterone and Estradiol (for the females the presence of alpha feto protein 1. Ok, lets add also, that  there is evidence that environmental factors such stress and xenoestrogens and other drugs exposures seems to be involved in their expression. There is even the documented case of a dude who smoked a vick-vaporub inhaler, and reported to the emergency room demanding SRS , three days later when the effects subside, he returned to be your normal cis block, he had never had an history of CD or TG/TS. I am sure his family would never let him forget LOL

The main point is that we have but just begun to scratch the surface of how the brain works. Yet, the take home lesson so far is that gender identity and sexual orientation are interconnected and mostly determined by biology.

Nice post, Peky.

I believe, from somewhere in the cobweb addled recesses of my memory, that I read where experience can change and shape brain chemistry.  That was particularly true with addictions, such as gambling.

If so, might that be a mechanism for reinforcing sexual choices?

[pretty pauline]

Do Hormones change your sexual orientation. Yes they can and they do, it happen to me, I posted about it before in old threads, it comes up again and again https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,113081.msg861115.html#msg861115  https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,103902.msg779292.html#msg779292
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,86615.msg617179.html#msg617179

[Shawn Sunshine]

Ok well I am not going to let hormones dictate who I am and what I am attracted to, I see its a mixed bag for all of you, but no matter what I take whether it be drug or hormone, It will not change the core of who I am as a person

[Constance]

Ok well I am not going to let hormones dictate who I am and what I am attracted to, I see its a mixed bag for all of you, but no matter what I take whether it be drug or hormone, It will not change the core of who I am as a person

But if we are the sum of our chemicals, the core could change.

[envie]

This is really not a matter of your decision! If it happens, it just happens gradually and without you noticing it at first. And when you notice it you might actually enjoy it.
At least this is what happened to me.

I was married to a woman, I had no interest in changing my sexual orientation and hoped with all my being to not to be left by my wife.
It turned out she is not into me anymore and I am very sad but also relieved because I prefer now to be together with a man.

In my own experience I believe my attraction to men was there all along but I wasn't a gay man so I couldn't act upon my feelings. After I "unlocked" my attraction to men with my transition, only then I realized my past crashes on some of my best boy-friends and the resulting jealousy at their girlfriends.

Several people here have described what is happening very nicely!

[vlmitchell]

Ok well I am not going to let hormones dictate who I am and what I am attracted to, I see its a mixed bag for all of you, but no matter what I take whether it be drug or hormone, It will not change the core of who I am as a person

Hmmm... I wouldn't say that this changed the core of 'who I am' per se but it did provide me with new perspectives on the world. (literally, my visual acuity toward narrow or broad field vision changed one day... caused a couple of auto accidents before I got used to it over a period of a couple of months) I thought a million things that I'm sure that I was sure of but things will work out like they want to and you don't have much of a say about it. This caused me no end of grief when I realized that I was having to cope with things that I was never thinking were 'part of the bargain' but that's life on HRT... you get some curve balls. Just don't be scared, don't make rash decisions, and don't overtly fight it either.

[dalebert]

My running theory on this is that everyone is a little bit bisexual on a scale (like the Kinsey Scale). I suspect we're much more in the middle of the scale than people think on average, but that we tend to develop blocks against attraction to one gender or the other due to social conditioning, so that's usually whichever gender "society" tells us we're not supposed to be attracted to.

I think as someone transitions, they start getting much more comfortable with themselves and their own identity which more reflects how they perceive themselves. That kind of journey can go a long way toward dissolving whatever blocks they may have had to their natural attractions. Also, I think self-identifying as heterosexual for your naturally-inclined gender is a key part of your identity with that gender. Once someone starts passing most of the time and starts seeing their body more in alignment with how they feel, and they don't have to work at passing or convincing anyone (including themselves) of their gender, then I think they feel less pressure to conform to whatever pressures they may have felt before, even self-imposed pressures.

Of course i know there's bisexual. You can be bisexual, have a sex change, and then still be bisexual, so orientation doesn't change for them.

Even bisexuals often have preferences and I've heard people say their preferences shifted in one direction or the other after transition.

[ZDR]

I never used to be interested in sex in the slightest, the only thing which mattered to me were serious relationships. I wouldn't have minded having them with either men or women, but I truly could see myself having sex. I was essentially bi-romantic and asexual.

With the input of hormones things changed though. I still want a solid bedrock of a relationship but sex started to matter, a lot. I gained an intense sexual and romantic attraction to men and lost any thought that I could have a relationship with a woman - it just sounds ridiculous now.

I'm not sure what this could come down to but that's what happened, bizarrely.

[peky]

Ok well I am not going to let hormones dictate who I am and what I am attracted to, I see its a mixed bag for all of you, but no matter what I take whether it be drug or hormone, It will not change the core of who I am as a person

Will see how you feel in a couple of years. Make no mistake HRT will change your brain. Like my Papi used to say "you can run but you cannot hide."

[Jamie D]

My running theory on this is that everyone is a little bit bisexual on a scale (like the Kinsey Scale). I suspect we're much more in the middle of the scale than people think on average, but that we tend to develop blocks against attraction to one gender or the other due to social conditioning, so that's usually whichever gender "society" tells us we're not supposed to be attracted to.

I think as someone transitions, they start getting much more comfortable with themselves and their own identity which more reflects how they perceive themselves. That kind of journey can go a long way toward dissolving whatever blocks they may have had to their natural attractions. Also, I think self-identifying as heterosexual for your naturally-inclined gender is a key part of your identity with that gender. Once someone starts passing most of the time and starts seeing their body more in alignment with how they feel, and they don't have to work at passing or convincing anyone (including themselves) of their gender, then I think they feel less pressure to conform to whatever pressures they may have felt before, even self-imposed pressures.

Even bisexuals often have preferences and I've heard people say their preferences shifted in one direction or the other after transition.

Dalebert, I agree with you on this.  I believe that almost everybody has the capacity for bisexual behavior.  We need only look at our primate cousins to see that.

"Behavior" may be completely separate from "orientation."

[Julie Wilson]

Ok well after watching Dr. Oz on oprah's program talk about the gay gene being found in mice and that is also in people. I wonder why someone would all of the sudden be sexually attracted to that which they were not attracted to before due to hormones.

First I have to say it is creepy talking about sexual orientation when the poster looks to be about five or six years old in her avatar photo.  However I did look at your profile and saw your age so I realize you are older than that ^_^ .

Like another poster commented it's complicated. 

Women tend to be more fluid than non-trans men when it comes to sexual orientation.  I think it's because non-trans men operate more on ego and being manly is scary and complicated in the United States of America.  A woman can be with another woman and it's not very likely that someone dangerous will get all hostile.  However men were taught to get dangerous and hostile and to be repulsed by men who have relations with other men and we (in lower North America) are still working on getting past that.  Men tend to be more concerned about what other men think of them and typically try to please other men, this is especially true when dealing with situations where one might be judged as homosexual.  It's ironic to me because these men care so much about what other men think and being manly that it screams of homosexuality.  I would think a heterosexual would be more concerned with what women thought of him but apparently with groups of non-trans men it's all about some sort of male competition thing, hence all the Harley Davidson's, guns and monster trucks, high-fives and "no-homo".

Women tend to be more fluid in their sexual orientation and they don't risk the same kind of disapproval that men might suffer. 

Some times a M2F will seek out sexual relationships with men in order to get validation or approval.  Some feel that by having sex with men they will be more feminine or more authentic.  However often times the sexual acting out after SRS is embarrassing (to others) and deviates from the norm compared to average women born with all the right equipment.

My own personal observation is that typically, for men sex is about sex but for women sex tends to be about relationships.  Women who have very close female friends may engage in what would be considered "sex" by most males, even if those males are mostly fantasizing.  I know that as a basically heterosexual woman sex for me is about bonding and relationships, more-so that it is about sex itself.  Honestly after being on hormones for over a decade and after having srs over eight years ago I have changed to the point where an orgasm every nine days or so is plenty for me and I could really care less if I ever have sex with another human being ever again.  However I would love to be in love with someone, I would love to be very close, to share a great relationship and to have intimacy.  That does not mean that I crave sex.  Sex for me might be a side-effect of a relationship.  But I will not seek anyone out for sex because it's just not part of me to do that.  Typically I would tend to have sex with a man who was very into me because I would desire a strong relationship and the sex is something the man would tend to want from me.  Also I have only ever had an orgasm with another person one time after SRS and I am not driven to have them.  I crave intimacy, not sex, something my male friends don't, can't or won't understand.

Finally I have found that as the kind of woman that I am, I am interested in a protector/provider.  My experience so far has been that men tend to fulfill that role better than women do.  I have noticed that when I have been with women it has been all about splitting things down the middle and my experience has been that other than a friend and maybe some intimacy, there are no real benefits to being with a woman for me.  In order to have a protector/provider I need a man.  So that aspect of relationships would cause me to choose a male for a partner and that is something that goes beyond "sexual orientation".

I think a lot of women are like me in this regard and they don't even think about it consciously because most women never lived in the wrong life previously or had to transition.  So those women tend to take things for granted without really contemplating the dynamics of it.

So as you can see it isn't all about "sexual orientation" and as far as I am concerned "sexual orientation" tends to be more of a non-trans male thing than a woman thing.  This whole preoccupation with with sexual orientation and what turns someone one, what someone is drawn to visually etc.  That is mostly a testosterone experience (in my humble opinion and experience).

And I think that is why women tend to be more accepting and more fluid, because they aren't looking at it purely as an "attraction" thing.  They look at it more as a practicality issue.  My experience having gone "m2f" is that men are driven by their testosterone hormone whereas women are not driven.  That is why typically in the past women had the power in relationships, the man would chase after the woman and the women (not driven to have sex) would pick and choose her suitor and she didn't have trouble holding out on the sex till after marriage (typically).  Now days we are being told more and more that women and men are exactly the same animal and want all the same things.  And I have seen women trying to live up to that expectation having unhappy lives and relationships that fall apart quickly.  Women are getting used collectively and have less and less to show for it.  And often times m2fs hear about the whole men and women are exactly the same and run with it because they feel like accepting that as being true brings them closer to their goals when really all it does is make the world an unhappier place full of chaos.

There are exceptions to the rule but exceptions aren't the rule.  And many of the people who are convinced are wrong because that is how life is.  My experience is that my body was a lot different when it was dominated by testosterone and it affected me and made me different than being on estrogen and not having male genitals.  It isn't just about bodies but our bodies affect us and make us who we are because we aren't gods and goddesses, we are human animals and a bird is different from a monkey, a tree is different from a flower and a man is different from a woman and that is why I transitioned.  If men and women were exactly the same I would have had no reason to transition, I could have instead said, "presto chango" and been a girl.  Also this is why most non-trans people have such a hard time accepting people who transitioned because in their world your body makes you who you are.  Well it is true in our world too but we have Science on our side and that is what transition is all about.  Sorry I got rolling there and had trouble stopping myself.

[dalebert]

I should add that societal taboos aren't the only thing that create blocks. I feel like I've always been pretty far over on the gay side of the Kinsey Scale but that I had some attraction to women at one point. I do recall a couple of attractions to girls when I was young but they seemed to stop altogether from the point when I started identifying as gay never to return. It's very complicated and I'm not sure what that's all about, but obviously those blocks don't come from societal pressures because societal pressure has always been for me to act on attraction to women and deny attraction to men. We can get weird hangups from all sorts of experiences, I suppose. Sometimes I wonder if there were a few key women in my life who left impressions on me and that got pushed down to some subconscious level that kept me from viewing them sexually or romantically, but I'm really just speculating. I can't put my finger on anything in particular. I've always gotten along well with women, so it's not a negative view in general; only something that suppresses seeing them sexually or romantically. In fact, sometimes I wonder if I subconsciously put women up on a pedestal and that seems degrading to them, below them. In any case, on a conscious level, thinking about that doesn't help that I just can't feel any attraction. The block is really solid.

[peky]

Front Neuroendocrinol. 2011 Apr;32(2):214-26. Epub 2011 Feb 18.
Sexual differentiation of the human brain: relation to gender identity, sexual orientation and neuropsychiatric disorders.
Bao AM, Swaab DF.
SourceDepartment of Neurobiology, Key Laboratory of Medical Neurobiology of Ministry of Health of China, Zhejiang Province Key Laboratory of Neurobiology, Zhejiang University School of Medicine, Hangzhou, China. baoaimin@zju.edu.cn

Abstract
During the intrauterine period a testosterone surge masculinizes the fetal brain, whereas the absence of such a surge results in a feminine brain. As sexual differentiation of the brain takes place at a much later stage in development than sexual differentiation of the genitals, these two processes can be influenced independently of each other. Sex differences in cognition, gender identity (an individual's perception of their own sexual identity), sexual orientation (heterosexuality, homosexuality or bisexuality), and the risks of developing neuropsychiatric disorders are programmed into our brain during early development. There is no evidence that one's postnatal social environment plays a crucial role in gender identity or sexual orientation. We discuss the relationships between structural and functional sex differences of various brain areas and the way they change along with any changes in the supply of sex hormones on the one hand and sex differences in behavior in health and disease on the other.

[GhostTown11]

Ok well I am not going to let hormones dictate who I am and what I am attracted to, I see its a mixed bag for all of you, but no matter what I take whether it be drug or hormone, It will not change the core of who I am as a person

To quote a friend "bitch, please." you're going to have put your big girl pants on and realize something's are out of your control.