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I just don't know which way to turn

Started by Carlita, June 05, 2012, 12:37:53 PM

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pretty

I'm sorry but I can't relate at all. I did not have any success as a boy, and I've still never seen this mystical society where every man is seriously expected to have a beard and a wife and five kids and play with explosives and large vehicles in his spare time or whatever.

I think if you can do all that then, honestly, why should you give it up? Because you have some nagging feeling? Not all nagging feelings are accurate. A little black dress. Okay... is that all? Maybe you could secretly do drag. Some people around here transition and find out that it's not for them.

Everyone is probably gonna want to shove you in the direction of transition because they crave to confirm their identity, but I think there should be a more balanced tone here because you're talking about something serious... I really feel sad for all the wives and children who suddenly find out they've been lied to for 20 years or whatever. That must be so insulting, after you entrusted your whole life and being to someone  :(.
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auburnAubrey

I'm sorry, but this is a pretty narrow minded post, and it is lodged strictly in your own situation.

Quote from: pretty on June 06, 2012, 01:03:34 PM
I'm sorry but I can't relate at all. I did not have any success as a boy, and I've still never seen this mystical society where every man is seriously expected to have a beard and a wife and five kids and play with explosives and large vehicles in his spare time or whatever.


Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.  It does, actually, exist, and just because your story didn't take you along that path, does not mean it is not a VERY REAL path for others.  It's like saying "My cancer is worse than your cancer"...  I just don't understand that type of thinking.

Quote from: pretty on June 06, 2012, 01:03:34 PM

I think if you can do all that then, honestly, why should you give it up? Because you have some nagging feeling? Not all nagging feelings are accurate. A little black dress. Okay... is that all? Maybe you could secretly do drag. Some people around here transition and find out that it's not for them.

You think that my life's path is based on a fleeting feeling?  I wish it would be as easy as you portray it to be in this sentence.


Quote from: pretty on June 06, 2012, 01:03:34 PMI really feel sad for all the wives and children who suddenly find out they've been lied to for 20 years or whatever. That must be so insulting, after you entrusted your whole life and being to someone  :(.

And I feel a lot of compassion for you to think this way.  Again, if your path was not like this, great.  But it is not insulting, it is simply a situation.    For you have no idea what we have gone through, because our path is unique to us, as yours is of you.  Who would I be to say the way you live your life is insulting?  There area many couples who have no animosity towards each other or even between kids and parents.  (My daughter has not a single problem with this, and is actually looking forward to it... in her words.)

As I've said here before, we are like books in a library.  Sure, we're all books, but we all have different stories to tell, and one is not more "right" than the other.

The whole tone of this post seemed very deragatory towards all that posted in here.  I for one am glad to hear of stories like mine... it helps relieve some of the sting of it.  I promise you I will never attack you or your story... please give me the same respect.
"To live both the yin and the yang, the male and the female, is a divine gift." ~ Me

"Know the masculine, but keep to the feminine, and become a watershed to the world". ~ The Tao Te Ching
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pretty

Quote from: auburnaubrey on June 06, 2012, 02:08:33 PMWho would I be to say the way you live your life is insulting?

If the way I lived my life was having another (usually STRAIGHT, that means "is not attracted to women," though some people don't understand this) woman build her life around a stupid lie just as an accessory to my "fake" masculinity, then yeah I think someone who was actually honest with their partner could call that insulting.

I'm not saying that's always the case, though it usually is, and that is pretty evident in how many of these situations end in divorce and bad blood.

The problem with a cancer analogy is cancer is a "you have it or you don't" thing, whereas being trans is "you have it if you say you do." Not everyone who thinks they might have cancer actually has cancer.

Well, whatever. Sorry I'm not the trans supremacist everyone wants everyone to be here. It's not a good thing to be trans. You don't need to shove everyone into that mold. I think if you can make it 30, 40, 50 years without major maladaptivity in a role you've established that you're OK living in that role.

Nobody ever cares about the wives... you can blatantly say you're deceiving and lying to your wife around here and everyone is going to gush with support anyway. Maybe you actually believe that all women are just conveniently going to turn lesbian  ::). I see that a lot.

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Sephirah

Okay, just a reminder of the following:

Quote from: Site Terms of Service10. Bashing or flaming of any individuals or groups is not acceptable behavior on this web site and will not be tolerated in the slightest for any reason.  This includes but is not limited to:

  • Advocating the separation or exclusion of one or more group from under the Transgender umbrella term
  • Suggesting or claiming that one segment or sub-segment of our community is more legitimate, deserving, or more real than any others

Pretty, if you can't relate to what someone else has gone through, fine. That doesn't give you the right to judge them.
Natura nihil frustra facit.

"You yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection." ~ Buddha.

If you're dealing with self esteem issues, maybe click here. There may be something you find useful. :)
Above all... remember: you are beautiful, you are valuable, and you have a shining spark of magnificence within you. Don't let anyone take that from you. Embrace who you are. <3
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pretty

Quote from: Sephirah on June 06, 2012, 02:53:14 PM
Okay, just a reminder of the following:

Pretty, if you can't relate to what someone else has gone through, fine. That doesn't give you the right to judge them.

That's not my message. I'm suggesting that if you can live a life that is honest to your commitment to the family that you built, you should. And that I don't think the standard for the trans community should be people who build up a family and string them along as a tool to appearing masculine.

To elaborate:

When you hear terms like "actor in a role," does that really sound fair? Would you look your SO in the eye and tell them they are just a part of an act? Decades of their life? How crushing would that be... it's horrible.
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Alainaluvsu

Pretty has a point though.

Maybe no so much in the work thing, but the wife and kids thing. You can't expect a woman to just "turn" lesbian for you, because that's basically what you're asking. I'm not trying to insult or not support anybody here, but some people need to be a little more realistic and / or sympathetic towards the SO's. I really feel sorry for the women and children caught up in this that had no clue... I couldn't imagine how frustrating THAT must be... I mean in their eyes, the father of their kids has basically lied to everybody in the family after trying to set a good example and live as a strong role model.

All I know is if a guy I was with told me he wanted to transition to female... I'd be their friend but our sexual energy would be over with that very moment. If my brother came out to my sister in law (3 kids between them) and he was trans, omg... I'd feel absolutely AWFUL for those kids simply because he means the world to them as a DAD.
To dream of the person you would like to be is to waste the person you are.



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Jamie D

These issues are not easy ones for transgendered individuals with a spouse, significant other, children (of any age), established career, etc.

The more people you have in your life, the more difficult and complicated the transition issues can become. Many of us have tried to balance our pressing personal needs with our other responsibilities.

I urge those involved in the discussion here to read some of the posts in the "Significant other talk" section.
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A

I'm just going to say my opinion, which might seem odd because I honestly don't have any practical experience of love relationships and such, and I am still beginning in life... My point of view might be a little idealistic, or even less valid because I don't speak from experience, but I still feel the way I do.

Also, in case my text appears more extreme than I intended it to be, I want to make it clear that I am definitely not one of those who believe that "everyone should accept me immediately or they're not worth my attention, and I should not care to understand how they feel, because it's their duty to accept me". It's just that I don't think, either, that everything is the trans person's duty, and that just because it might have an impact on others, they should forget transition and sacrifice their own well-being.

I don't know... Honestly, I don't think someone coming out after having had a family and wife is doing anything wrong per se. Of course, doing so and going away, abandoning them, is another story, but it's not like it's ill-intentioned or selfish otherwise. Maybe I'm a little too open-minded for the norm, but I don't think it has to change anything regarding how the family works and the bonds among it.

Of course, with the wife, it has high chances of changing something. But in the (common) event that the wife doesn't "turn lesbian" for her partner, does that mean that they have to break up the relationship? It is hard to understand at first (and I fully understand that it can be), but the person in front of her is still going to be the same. Just because sex isn't possible anymore, does that mean that love can't be present?

It may differ from the norm, but I see nothing wrong with raising a family as friends. Married friends perhaps, but friends. And if the sexual attraction doesn't work anymore and both feel the need for it, I still don't see anything wrong with the pair agreeing to let each other see new lovers.

In the unfortunate event that divorce and separation ensues, it's sad, but it isn't the end of the world, and it's not 100 % the transitioner's fault, either. Transitioning is less of a choice of a lifestyle than a decision to fix an issue with oneself. Marriage includes vows to remain present and loving for the good and the bad, in illness and in health and such.

In my opinion, whilst the transitioner has a responsibility of acting for the best regarding the family by doing it as nicely and not giving up their responsibilities, the partner is also responsible for doing their best to understand, to accept and to love, again for the family's good.

As for the children, really, if they're upset despite explanation and evidence that their father is always acting for their own good, it almost automatically means to me that they have trouble accepting ->-bleeped-<- to begin with, which is arguably a thing that they should settle in order to become better people... And it turns out their parents are there just for that.

Depending on the way you do things, I think it's very possible to do this in a healthy, honest and grudge free manner. The only requirement is for the wife and children to understand that the husband (I guess it's still okay to say husband at this point) wishes them to be as happy as possible, and has done what he did until now for their sake, and will continue doing so, but now needs the lie to stop to preserve their mental health.

I would sort of relate it to a parent who would be alone with children and a demanding job, and who would gradually become tired. I would not hold a grudge against them if they took on a less demanding but less paying job, resulting in everyone getting less luxury, to avoid a burn-out. Except in the case of transition, any noticeably negative consequence comes from how people take it, since there are no direct consequences that I can think of, except maybe forced divorce in some places, but even that doesn't mean much... Marriage is basically just a paper, and anything else that it can represent (fidelity, love, commitment...) doesn't need the paper to exist at all.

Finally, I hardly believe in the concrete-hard need of a father for children. Mine was mostly a negative experience when he was there, and definitely not missed after divorce, and despite that, I don't think I'm so worse off; not because of that, anyway. And I'm almost sure there are studies out there showing that homosexual parents do as well as heterosexual ones.

The bottom line (actually, lines) is: In my opinion, it's perfectly possible to allow an individual to finally be their true self and still protect everyone. I don't think being trans has to be a bomb with casualties, and I don't think there is a choice to make between transition and family to begin with. On one hand, the transitioner must take into account the moral challenges and the effort of understanding and acceptance it requires from the family, but on the other hand, the family must understand that they do not have the right to keep a good-willing individual from true happiness that doesn't cost them anything.
A's Transition Journal
Last update: June 11th, 2012
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auburnAubrey

Quote from: pretty on June 06, 2012, 02:39:30 PM
If the way I lived my life was having another (usually STRAIGHT, that means "is not attracted to women," though some people don't understand this) woman build her life around a stupid lie just as an accessory to my "fake" masculinity, then yeah I think someone who was actually honest with their partner could call that insulting.

I'm not saying that's always the case, though it usually is, and that is pretty evident in how many of these situations end in divorce and bad blood.

The problem with a cancer analogy is cancer is a "you have it or you don't" thing, whereas being trans is "you have it if you say you do." Not everyone who thinks they might have cancer actually has cancer.

Well, whatever. Sorry I'm not the trans supremacist everyone wants everyone to be here. It's not a good thing to be trans. You don't need to shove everyone into that mold. I think if you can make it 30, 40, 50 years without major maladaptivity in a role you've established that you're OK living in that role.

Nobody ever cares about the wives... you can blatantly say you're deceiving and lying to your wife around here and everyone is going to gush with support anyway. Maybe you actually believe that all women are just conveniently going to turn lesbian  ::). I see that a lot.

You see things only from your opinion and point of view, and that's fine.  that's you, and your opinion.  However, if you can step back, and view something objectively (Seeing through eyes not your own), you may be able to see an alternative point of view.  I am different than you, and my life was / is much different than your outlook of it.  However, I know when a conversation will become an argument, and I truly feel nothing I can write on this page will change your mind, so I'm done.

I will only say that hopefully some day, you can soften your stance and think that with all the possibilities that exist in the Universe, that maybe the way you see it isn't the "only" way.  Because that's no different than most of the world that say we are wrong for being transgendered in the first place, and your view is just extremely negative in its origin.  there are brighter ways to look at things, and it's not blind at all. 

And Alaina, maybe they love him as a person, not as the title of "Dad".  Which is exactly what my daughter said to me. 
"To live both the yin and the yang, the male and the female, is a divine gift." ~ Me

"Know the masculine, but keep to the feminine, and become a watershed to the world". ~ The Tao Te Ching
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Sephirah

There are a lot of things I don't know about in life - marriage and the dynamic of having a spouse and children being one of them. So I don't feel qualified to talk about that and think that there are people with practical experience in that area better able to offer advice and suggestions in that regard.

What I do know about, however, is this:

Quote from: Carlita on June 05, 2012, 12:37:53 PM
For a while, I thought that maybe this time, somehow, I'd got past dysphoria. But you don't, do you? It's impossible to get past something that is such a deep, fundamental part of who one is.

I'm very familiar with dysphoria, and how it makes you feel. One thing I can talk about is how it affected the relationships I had with people close to me which, granted, were never that many, but anyway.

It's easy to say that people who deal with the way they feel by trying to force it further down and play a 'male' role in life are somehow good at it and should keep doing it. Often what isn't understood is why a lot of folks do it in the first place, rather than just 'bite the bullet' and transition. Particularly by those lucky enough to be born into an age where it's an option right out of the gate. I went the other way in early life, and pretty much shunned it altogether, withdrawing into my mind and attempting to have as little to do with any sort of male associations whatsoever, but the reasons were, I suspect, the same.

It's a painkiller. Or an anaesthetic. A way to numb the discomfort you feel about yourself. Like going to the medicine cabinet and taking a couple of aspirin when you have toothache. The pain goes away, and you don't think about it anymore. At least you think it goes away. And that's the point - the mind is good at knowing what it needs to feel better, to forget the pain dysphoria causes. And if something takes that pain away then you're going to want to do it. Especially in a time, or a place, where transition literally isn't an option. Where it isn't something you can do even if you desperately want to.

I mean sure, nowadays it's a lot more understood, and information and resources are far more widely available. But it wasn't ever thus. And what does one do in that situation? Suffer the often crippling pain of dysphoric sensations? Or instinctively find ways to cope, based in part on a self-preservation instinct and a need to keep one's sanity intact? I get why people choose to try to throw themselves into living as a male even though their body screams at them that it's wrong, even though it's something that I personally didn't do. It's the same reason the way I attempted to cope was to build a huge layer of insulation around my mind from it all, and move in, cushions and all.

It removes the pain. It gives you other things to think about. For a while, the discomfort and the horrid sensations are drowned out by the needs of others, the need to be someone for people, to live for them and their expectations. You convince your mind that you're not the most important thing in the universe and that if you can't do anything about the way you feel, then you can at least make the world bearable for other people.

The trouble with painkillers, though, or anaesthetics, is that they aren't permanent. The effects fade and once again the pain comes back. Often worse than before. It's as though the dysphoria somehow thinks "okay, you tried to forget me, I'll just have to get my crampons on and dance around inside your head. Maybe then you'll pay attention to me!" Just like you can't make toothache disappear, no many aspirin you take. Because something is fundamentally wrong. And removing the pain through distraction, or living for other people... well it just addresses the symptoms. It does nothing for the cause.

My own experiences with people close to me, during times of dysphoria, was that it negatively affected them. I was often asked why I was withdrawn, why I was sad. And they blamed themselves for it. Thinking it was their fault and they just weren't being a good enough friend/family member/whatever. At that time I couldn't, and didn't tell them what the real cause of it was... but the point is that they picked up on it, and try as I might to hide it, or dismiss it, or run away from it... people pick up on things. If you're not right with yourself then people notice, no matter how much you don't want them to. Because you can only force it away for so long, by whatever means you find that works for you, before your efforts fade and it comes back with a vengeance.

Why keep doing it? That's the question. It can become an addiction, like an addiction to morphine. While it's working, all is right with the world. Especially if it becomes a conditioned response over the years - something you learned at an early age when there was no alternative. It can become a reflex action when the pain comes back, you turn to your tried-and-tested methods of making it behave itself and go away again.

Only each time, it takes less and less time for it to come back. In the meantime, you accrue the trappings of a 'normal' life, built up through your desire to have it. Yet the amount of dysphoric sensation you can subdue by trying to live this life lessens and lessens, just as the effectiveness of a painkiller lessens as you build up a tolerance to it. Until in the end, it doesn't work anymore, and you are faced with the very real prospect of being unable to suppress it anymore, no matter what you do.

And so, finally the questions you ran away from for years stare you in the face and you reach a crunch point. Are you abandoning everything you built up, everyone you love and care about, by wanting to deal with the pain you feel? Or are you wanting to finally be free of it so you can continue to be the loving, caring person you are when it isn't there? Are you wanting to remove the self-destructive feelings and thoughts which make you feel depressed and miserable precisely so your attention isn't forced inwards and away from those you love? When you finally become immune to the effects of your coping method, and the anaesthetic wears off, do you decide to go and get your tooth fixed so you can finally smile without the shadow of pain behind your eyes and those around you wondering why and if it's their fault?

These are questions everyone has to find the answers to on their own. Not something anyone can tell one what to choose, and what to do.
Natura nihil frustra facit.

"You yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection." ~ Buddha.

If you're dealing with self esteem issues, maybe click here. There may be something you find useful. :)
Above all... remember: you are beautiful, you are valuable, and you have a shining spark of magnificence within you. Don't let anyone take that from you. Embrace who you are. <3
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JoanneB

OMG Sephirah! You nailed it right on the head.

Quote from: Sephirah on June 06, 2012, 09:39:04 PM
It removes the pain. It gives you other things to think about. For a while, the discomfort and the horrid sensations are drowned out by the needs of others, the need to be someone for people, to live for them and their expectations. You convince your mind that you're not the most important thing in the universe and that if you can't do anything about the way you feel, then you can at least make the world bearable for other people.
This especially sums up my life
.          (Pile Driver)  
                    |
                    |
                    ^
(ROCK) ---> ME <--- (HARD PLACE)
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Alainaluvsu

Quote from: auburnaubrey on June 06, 2012, 04:42:25 PM
And Alaina, maybe they love him as a person, not as the title of "Dad".  Which is exactly what my daughter said to me.

Well that's sweet. But it doesn't always turn out that way with kids.
To dream of the person you would like to be is to waste the person you are.



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CryssL

#32
Quote from: auburnaubrey on June 06, 2012, 04:42:25 PM
And Alaina, maybe they love him as a person, not as the title of "Dad".  Which is exactly what my daughter said to me.


Quote from: Alainaluvsu on June 06, 2012, 10:52:28 PM
Well that's sweet. But it doesn't always turn out that way with kids.

Depending upon age, children are still developing and do not always have a clear understanding of the situation.  It is a common occurrence for children to blame themselves or misconstrue the details in some other form.  Children of an older age may at first feel anger, frustration and abandonment, but never as a parent would I, or do I feel anyone who is for that matter, turn away from that child despite that belief perhaps not being mutual in either words or actions (or both).  People, children included, need time to process and calm their emotions.  After this, though I realize not always, many times the child will begin associating with that parent again.

As for me in particular, I have a three-year-old son.  I pray that because of his young age, my transition will not have a huge impact on him or his life.  In fact, I hope it acts as an aid in some way to better his life.  However, should later in his life he decide he wants nothing to do with me, I'd be crushed, but I'd also understand.  Most important as a parent for me at that point, would be to reassure him that if he ever changed his mind, I would not turn my back on him.

You can say that children don't always treat the situation that way (viewing the father as a loving "person" instead of "daddy"), but in all actuality and especially in younger children, it seems to be quite so.  A child can call the father "daddy," but it's just a name; my son has no understanding of its meaning.  It's me, the person, he knows and trusts.  Granted, yes, children of an older age may question whether they can trust that parent due to the withholding for so long, but I imagine the child would much rather the parent pursue a life of happiness, than to die unhappy for the sake of maintaining an image for others (whether or not this image at one point was authentic or not is irrelevant; people change).

All in all, we all have the right to pursue happiness for ourselves.  We all make mistakes, we all do things that at the time seemed right, and we all change.  I don't regret a single thing in my life in relation to my family and the decision to transition.  I still love my son, and I still love my ex (in a different way) despite what's changed between us... but I understand that change and the need for it.  It is what it is.
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Michelle G

? Are you wanting to remove the self-destructive feelings and thoughts which make you feel depressed and miserable precisely so your attention isn't forced inwards and away from those you love? When you finally become immune to the effects of your coping method, and the anaesthetic wears off, do you decide to go and get your tooth fixed so you can finally smile without the shadow of pain behind your eyes and those around you wondering why and if it's their fault?



Sephirah, you actually get it!  That statement really hits home with me
Just a "California Girl" trying to enjoy each sunny day
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jainie marlena

funny thing is I will always be DAD to my kids. I have come to the point were I understand I don't have to give up my relationship with my kids. They are my kids and always will be. NOT everone lied to their spouse. when I began to understand all of this I let it all out. I did not know I was trans. I did not understand why I hurt (felt) the way I did. I was able to ignore how I hurt (felt). I did not just come to a point and say I been lieing this whole time about who I am. I did not know who I was to do that.

as far as my wife goes. It was all headed down hill. she is not leaving me because I'm trans. she is leaving because she was not there for me to start with it just gave her something to play on. sure is funny  2 years in and 20years behind and she still has not devorced me. "Just one more year" she said to her mom on the phone to draw social security off me. so who's lieing to who here.

She dragged me out into the pubic and told everyone that I am a transexual. by the way my daughters love the mother daughter time they have with their dad. since their mom is not ever around to do it.

My grandma took me fishing all the time she was a woman and not a man but she sure loved being a dad to me. when my dad was not there for me 20 years.

5 kids yes 5! All 5 will grow up and accept people for who they are no matter what they are. Why? first hand knowlege of this.

By the way LOVE YOU ANYWAY.

Carlita

To Auburnaubrey: thank you. I really feel a kindred spirit in you and would like to continue this conversation, perhaps, in PMs.

To Pretty: I can only say that I'd hoped I'd made it pretty clear in my post why I - and many other late transitioners, especially those who grew up at a time when the world in general was, by far, even less understanding and tolerant of transgender issues - did my best to live the role that was expected of me. And that included a wife and kids.

Did I lie to my wife? No more than I lied to myself, or thn psychiatrists lied to me. I had so-called experts, time after time, saying, 'Don't worry. This is a fantasy. It's just a phase. It'll pass.' I thought maybe they were right. Maybe I wasn't really transgender.

My wife has always known I had problems, though I didn't formally come out to her until three or four years ago. She knows who and what I am and she loves me. She's a wonderful woman. Does that mean she wants me to transition? Hell no. She wants the man she cuddles up to every night.

Two of my three children know: they're adults and I feel that I've done absolutely everything I can to give them the best start in life. One, I know, would stand by me. The other would find it more difficult. But I wouldn't feel I was letting them down if I transitioned.

Our third child is still a teenager and, as I made clear, that's who I worry about.

And to Sephira: You put it so, so, so well ...

Thank you for expressing so beautifully, and with such insight what it is like to suffer from dysphoria and how one tries to creat coping mechanisms to deal with it. If anyone ever asks me why I am how I am, I'll just say, 'read this'.

And I think you hit a massive nail square on the head when you say that all the things we do to protect those we love from our dysphoria actually end up hurting them. If anyone wants to know what I really feel guilty about it is that my falseness as a man had a huge subconscious effect on my family - like an odourless, invisible, undetectable gas that ends up poisoning everyone who breathes it. I ask myself whether several specific issues my wife and kids' lives have had their roots in my unacknowledged dysphoria.

And so I face another dilemma: wouldl I actually be making things BETTER for everyone else if I were man enough to admit that I am a woman and bloody well go and do something about it?
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auburnAubrey

Quote from: Sephirah on June 06, 2012, 09:39:04 PM

I mean sure, nowadays it's a lot more understood, and information and resources are far more widely available. But it wasn't ever thus. And what does one do in that situation? Suffer the often crippling pain of dysphoric sensations? Or instinctively find ways to cope, based in part on a self-preservation instinct and a need to keep one's sanity intact? I get why people choose to try to throw themselves into living as a male even though their body screams at them that it's wrong, even though it's something that I personally didn't do. It's the same reason the way I attempted to cope was to build a huge layer of insulation around my mind from it all, and move in, cushions and all.


Growing up in an upper middle class midwestern town, with a father who was known to everyone didn't help, but to say I was isolated from "different" is pretty accurate.  I had NO idea that there was ANYONE else feeling what I felt until I was 19 or 20, let alone there was a name for it.  I thought I was alone, that I was F-ed up, and maybe it will go away.  Why would I tell ANYONE I felt this way, when I didn't even know what it was?  So easy to say you'd do something different, but as I said before....... just because we are all books, doesn't mean we have the same story.  I did whatever I could do to cope as to not put a bullet through my skull, which I pondered for so much of my life. (back then).  Basic survivial.  And survivial at its core doesn't differentiate gender.  It's survivial of self... whatever that is.  And I just happened to be male going through that.
"To live both the yin and the yang, the male and the female, is a divine gift." ~ Me

"Know the masculine, but keep to the feminine, and become a watershed to the world". ~ The Tao Te Ching
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annette

Hi Carlita

I have read your story and my honest opinion about it, why are you hiding yourself?...can't go to susan's at home...why not open and honest to your family?
I mean..it's some kind of shadow life you are living now.
You want to be a woman but are not willing to take any risks, you do have some male privileges and you want to keep it.

You told us about when you were young, in the seventees, than it was a lot harder than to go for transition.
Well, I was the one who transitioned in the seventees, and yes it was quite hard to do, but who cares if you don't have any other way.

As always some offers has to be made and if you  really are a woman you have to be prepared to loose everything, if you are not losing evrything, you're lucky.
For a woman it's not possible to live a man's life for decades, it will kill you.
It's also hard to keep the male's privileges, like Mick Jagger said in his song, you can't always get what you want.

I wish you wisdom to make the right choice, main thing is be happy, you only get one life, you won't come back.
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Carlita

Quote from: annette on June 07, 2012, 11:06:29 AM
Hi Carlita

I have read your story and my honest opinion about it, why are you hiding yourself?...can't go to susan's at home...why not open and honest to your family?
I mean..it's some kind of shadow life you are living now.
You want to be a woman but are not willing to take any risks, you do have some male privileges and you want to keep it.

You told us about when you were young, in the seventees, than it was a lot harder than to go for transition.
Well, I was the one who transitioned in the seventees, and yes it was quite hard to do, but who cares if you don't have any other way.

As always some offers has to be made and if you  really are a woman you have to be prepared to loose everything, if you are not losing evrything, you're lucky.
For a woman it's not possible to live a man's life for decades, it will kill you.
It's also hard to keep the male's privileges, like Mick Jagger said in his song, you can't always get what you want.

I wish you wisdom to make the right choice, main thing is be happy, you only get one life, you won't come back.

I can't argue with a word of that ... I guess I'm just terrified, after all these years, of what I might be about to do to myself, and all those that I love ... but as you say, this is the only life I've got. I don't want to be on my deathbed wondering if I could have lived it  better, happier, more natural way ...
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Michelle G

Quote from: Carlita on June 07, 2012, 12:45:27 PM
I can't argue with a word of that ... I guess I'm just terrified, after all these years, of what I might be about to do to myself, and all those that I love ... but as you say, this is the only life I've got. I don't want to be on my deathbed wondering if I could have lived it  better, happier, more natural way ...

Carlita, you are not alone, I have said those exact words myself! and I am finally after all these years doing something about it before my time is up...sure it wont be the same as if I had acted when I was much much younger, but its the best I can do now and it makes me a much happier person!
I just didnt want my last words to be a shocking confession.

I posted this phrase from a song called "Comes a Time" by the Grateful Dead last week in another thread, this song means so much to me as it speaks volumes to how I feel.

"From day to day just letting it ride.
You get so far away from how it feels inside.
You can't let go cause you're afraid to fall,
But the day may come when you can't feel at all."
Just a "California Girl" trying to enjoy each sunny day
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