Is it better for transmen to be invisible?

[Frank]

I'll probably get hit for this but seriously, there's probably millions of transphobes, homophobes, religious nuts and you can't educate/change all their minds. Wouldn't it be easier if the less they knew about us, the better?
You're not likely to pick on someone for being remotely trans* if you have no idea it exists, are you? (Of course by now this would be a bit like stuffing the cat back in the bag...) 

[wheat thins are delicious]

It would be a mixed bag.  Yeah you would keep out of the sights of transphobes, but then what would questioning people do if they knew nothing about trans people?

I personally am stealth, and think more people should be.  There are some people in the "community" who give cis people a negative view of transsexuals.

[peky]

It would be a mixed bag.  Yeah you would keep out of the sights of transphobes, but then what would questioning people do if they knew nothing about trans people?

I personally am stealth, and think more people should be.  There are some people in the "community" who give cis people a negative view of transsexuals.

Like who?

[AdamMLP]

Like who?

Ira Gray immediately springs to mind, and I think that Chaz Bono has said some stuff that not everyone agrees with, but as I don't follow the media I don't really know.

[Adam (birkin)]

I really don't think it's that easy to "spot" FTMs, particularly after they've been on T for a while, even if you know about them.

I don't like a lot of the people who "represent" us, but meh...takes guts to put yourself out there.

[peky]

The reason I ask is because in the "gals" side of the house we have the: she-males, female impersonators, and ->-bleeped-<- prostitutes to contend with. Personally, I think they all do us a disservice, of course that it is just my personal opinion.

Recently my oldest son (20YO) went to see a female impersonator show. When he come back he said to me: "they do not look like you," I asked him to elaborate further, and he said: "well, is kind you look like any lady", "they look like weird ladies." What you mean by "weird ladies,"  I ask him, and he said: "its like they real did not look real iwth all the make-up, and dress, and everything; it is like you never see a lady dress like that at the mall." I laughed so hard, but true, and that is but one of the pictures society has about TG/TS women!

[poptart]

As long as we are portrayed accurately, I don't see a problem with mass-education on the subject.

Ira Gray immediately springs to mind, and I think that Chaz Bono has said some stuff that not everyone agrees with, but as I don't follow the media I don't really know.

I don't think Ira Gray's actions represent anyone but himself. There was another instance of this a few years ago with someone named Kael Block. Here's the thing, though: there are rapists and sex offenders in the general male population, so we can't expect anything different in our group. Their actions don't speak to the overall behaviour of trans people, it's just them specifically, since their actions were not related to them being trans.
Agreed on Chaz Bono, though.

[Edge]

As long as we are portrayed accurately, I don't see a problem with mass-education on the subject.

I agree with this.

[Darrin Scott]

I think having people in the community speak out isn't terrible and frankly, when I've come out to a few people recently they instantly thought of Chaz Bono. I don't think that even that is terrible. I mean, it has helped my friends grasp the concept and have something to reference to. Is he my personal spokesman? No, but having people in the community who do speak out helps I think. If no one knew what an FTM was, it would be twice as difficult for families and friends to grasp the concept and accept it. I mean, we can't be stealth to everyone. There are people who did know us before and during transition. I feel we need resources for them.

[aleon515]

Some people are against this-- it doesn't matter what they say. There is something, in their narrow little minds-- that is the against the laws of nature. The "God doesn't make mistakes" * crowd sees this as changing what is meant to be by God and sort of playing God. I doubt that someone like Chaz Bono (going to keep the other guy out of this right now) or some other celeb says.


*(except for babies born without brains, hydrocephalus, cerebral palsy, severe autism, ok ok)

--Jay Jay

[AdamMLP]

I don't think Ira Gray's actions represent anyone but himself. There was another instance of this a few years ago with someone named Kael Block. Here's the thing, though: there are rapists and sex offenders in the general male population, so we can't expect anything different in our group. Their actions don't speak to the overall behaviour of trans people, it's just them specifically, since their actions were not related to them being trans.
Agreed on Chaz Bono, though.

I see what you mean by that, he was just the first person that came to mind when thinking about people who are big in the trans community who would give us a bad impression.  It's just that some people think that T makes people aggressive/violent/etc and actions like his aren't something which helps us dispel that myth.  When I was coming out to someone right at the start of realising all of this they'd heard that and were seriously scared at the thought of me going on T encase it changed me that way.  Everyone being stealth would help in that situation as no one would think anything of it other than him just being another male sex offender.

But I agree with what everyone is saying, it would be nearly impossible for people to realise that they weren't just deluded and that FTM's were around and that it was possible to transition if we were invisible.  I know that I wouldn't have realised this if it wasn't for seeing Max on the L Word (not the best example I know).

[Natkat]

I'll probably get hit for this but seriously, there's probably millions of transphobes, homophobes, religious nuts and you can't educate/change all their minds. Wouldn't it be easier if the less they knew about us, the better?
You're not likely to pick on someone for being remotely trans* if you have no idea it exists, are you? (Of course by now this would be a bit like stuffing the cat back in the bag...) 

I dont think so,
for my experience knowlegdes is the most important key in acceptence..

Humans are scared of the unknown, and theyre hate and ignorance usunally comes from there extremly low knowlegde and experience. one of my friends had been a ignorant on the trans topic, but later on she found out how ignorant she had been,
she felt it was horrible but she didnt knew better, and he desided to informate other people about on her school because she knew most of the peoples arnt evil in nature, there just dont know how to handle it probably.

[Sephirah]

there's probably millions of transphobes, homophobes, religious nuts and you can't educate/change all their minds. Wouldn't it be easier if the less they knew about us, the better?

The thing about that is that if you hide something away because of people who hate, you're giving them exactly what they want and giving them all the power. A good number of people who are transphobic, homophobic, religious zealots, or who hate for numerous other reasons... well, their issues stem from somewhere other than a lack of information. No amount of educating is going to change their minds because their minds are already made up. They can, and sometimes do have all the facts, but just choose to ignore them and instead stick to their tried and tested personal judgements because it makes them feel superior in their own heads. Removing the target of hatred doesn't stop hatred, it just focuses it somewhere else.

I get why people want to blend into society and put the trans aspect of their life very firmly in the background, and I also get why people choose to integrate and incorporate it into their everyday lives. I just think that should be a choice the individual has the right to make for themselves, based more on what being trans means to them personally, rather than have the choice made for them based on fear for their own safety. The world is definitely big enough for both to co-exist.

[Arch]

In my gay group, being invisibly trans has some advantages. One is that the guys just say what they think about trans men. I get the unvarnished insider view, and I know they're not holding back on account of me.

And then the disadvantages. One is...the guys just say what they think about trans men. Like "What's the point?"

And unless I want to out myself, I have a hard time fighting against that.

[Make_It_Good]

To be honest, I hate the fact of any ftms being in public. I think it makes it worse for my family (they see Chaz Bono for example, and may start to think my story and feelings are like his. Where, so far Ive not come across any ftm in public who seems to border on what Ive felt, which is associating as a normal male, not trans).
   As some of you may know, currently in the Big Brother in the UK, theres an Ftm, and in a completely selfish way, Ill admit, I hate that hes on there. Ive watched little bits here and there, but nothing recently, but Im hoping he does not reveal his chest scars.
  Sure, its one thing for T to work its magic on us and help us to blend into society, but for guys to show their scars, then Id feel so paranoid about mine! Ive already made up some excuse about the surgery I had, to my friends at uni, but if they begin to recognize what chest scars look like...
Also, if lower surgery starts getting mentioned on tv, Id get even more paranoid as Im at the stage where Im thinking of excuses to make for each stage to my friends because Ill be going through it while still in uni. But I dont want it all to start sounding like excuses, with me coming out with surgical wounds resembling the lower surgery process. I know it makes me sound like a big fat worrier, but I just want to live like a normal guy, without people associating me with this "transness" and I feel that ftms going public, jeopardizes this.

[Traivs]

There are some people though who once they meet someone who fits into the category that they have been hating on but didn't know it at first and ave a good experience with that person they may change their minds a bit. One of my new coworkers met me as Travis they thought i was pretty cool but when one of the managers who knew me from pre transitioning used my birth name she got a little weird-ed out at first but ended up being okay with it in the end she says she doesn't necessarily agree with what i am doing to my body but shes not going to stop being my friend because of it. She did bring up religion though but like i said she's cool with me. I also had a coworker who when she first started working there went on this whole anti gay rant to me in the break room but later ended up being great friends with one of our gay coworkers. I think that when people are shown that everyone isn't like what they have been told in general most of them grow to accept things.

[Frank]

  Sure, its one thing for T to work its magic on us and help us to blend into society, but for guys to show their scars, then Id feel so paranoid about mine! Ive already made up some excuse about the surgery I had, to my friends at uni, but if they begin to recognize what chest scars look like...
Also, if lower surgery starts getting mentioned on tv, Id get even more paranoid as Im at the stage where Im thinking of excuses to make for each stage to my friends because Ill be going through it while still in uni. But I dont want it all to start sounding like excuses, with me coming out with surgical wounds resembling the lower surgery process. I know it makes me sound like a big fat worrier, but I just want to live like a normal guy, without people associating me with this "transness" and I feel that ftms going public, jeopardizes this.

This. Being a dude is all I ever been, and without being offensive (or bratty...), I don't really want to get the moobs removed only to discover people already know what it looks like and treat me different. (Er, which is what most people want, to not be treated differently. lol.)

[Natkat]

You gets prejugdes for everyonthing, being trans, being gay, being religions, not being religions, being amarican, being russian, being white or black, fat, a teacher, a bartender. its no secret, But prejugdes shouldnt stop you for being you.
--

[thefire]

"associating as a normal male, not trans" ...
    "I just want to live like a normal guy"

I see what you mean because I really want to be seen as a normal guy, an equal to other males, not as less than because people see me as a girl just trying to be a man. At the worst, there are people who accuse me of being a fraud and trying to fool people into thinking that I'm a man. And I really hate that mindset that people have, that you can only be the sex you were born, no ifs, ands, or buts, you are your birth sex no matter what you do. I can't stand that mindset, and I can't stand being thought of as inferior to men. I see myself as a man, and I act and relate in a way that my social circle is mostly straight, macho cis guys, and I fit in to that because that's just my personality and the way I am. My friends are great because they knew me before I knew I had the option to be a guy, but I've always been just one of the guys. I just wish the employers around me could see it that way, but no, they see me as a female and confine me to that gender box.

[Nygeel]

I'm not sure who it would be better for.

In general I think the more visible we are the more non-trans people can get used to us and deal with us. The less people know, the less people hear, the more close minded they will likely be.