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Can I join the military? (title edit)

Started by Wolf Man, July 22, 2012, 03:14:25 AM

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Wolf Man

I'm about 3 years into transition and 1 year on T, no surgery yet. I have a small little nagging voice saying to drop it all just to join the military. Now, would this even be possible? I'm in the USA. Would my changes be too significant to allow me in? Am I crazy?

Someone say anything so I can move on. I'm probably blowing this up without need to. I've just come to a point where it has begun to bother me more than usual. I practically regret ever transitioning over joining up. Console my self pity?

Uhg...  ???  :-\
I'll be there someday, I can go the distance
I will find my way, If I can be strong
I know every mile, Will be worth my while

When I go the distance, I'll be right where I belong
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King Malachite

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think that transgender people can serve in the USA millitary at this time.  You would probably have to detransition and live life as a female again in order to join and that may even be further complicated with your changes and if you get top surgery.

I guess it just boils down to what matters to you the most: serving your country or living life as male.  Either way you choose you are such a brave person and I commend you comrade.  I know how it feels to hear the Call of Duty and the desire to answer it.  I really wish I knew what to say.
Feel the need to ask me something or just want to check out my blog?  Then click below:

http://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,135882.0.html


"Sometimes you have to go through outer hell to get to inner heaven."

"Anomalies can make the best revolutionaries."
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justmeinoz

Hopefully, if you do transition your Army will have got it's act together and you can join up.  Win-win situation.  Fingers crossed for you.

Karen.
"Don't ask me, it was on fire when I lay down on it"
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Wolf Man

@Malachite: Unfortunately, I know full and well that transgender people are not allowed to serve openly. I was asking if the transitioning that I've currently gone through would hinder me if I detransitioned in the sense of simply saying I'm female and joining as such. I wasn't particularly female before transition, so I'm just a tad more masculine than before. I pass 100% and that's why I ask. My voice especially, but I still get that it sounds like a 15 year old and I'm 20.

As for what's more important, I don't know. I'm unhappy living my life the way it is, but I would still be unhappy serving as female. I see both as equally undesirable, but at least suffering would help me sort out my life in ways that I don't know how to do on my own. I have an intense need to be part of something bigger than myself by joining the military and that it would help me later become my own person who is capable of being a leader and not a follower.

Thanks for your input though.

@justmeinoz: I have transitioned, but I do hope that it pulls together and allows us to join and serve openly soon.
I'll be there someday, I can go the distance
I will find my way, If I can be strong
I know every mile, Will be worth my while

When I go the distance, I'll be right where I belong
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Hayzer12

If you're a year on T, I'm guessing you're passing as male 100 percent. Because of this, then yes, it would hinder you.
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A

I've heard about the American army hiring transgenders, including letting them transition while they serve. Also, once you are legally male, there is no reason they would even have a motive to contest.

But really, I would ask you... Is it really more important for you to become a soldier, rather than be yourself? I'm not just saying this because I dislike everything related to the army. What I mean is: is any particular job, especially one that you don't even have yet, more important than being yourself?
A's Transition Journal
Last update: June 11th, 2012
No more updates
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Wolf Man

@Hayzer12: Yes, I pass 100%. I figured that it would hinder me, but thanks for reinforcing that idea.

@A: That's what I keep trying to tell myself. I am unhappy either way, but at least one way I am being male and at least happy about that. I get the dislike, that's okay. I don't think anyone needs to agree with it. I have my own glorified view that I know isn't the truth, but I know that I'd still love the life. I simply struggle because they sit so close to each other in importance. Had I had no gender issues there would be no question of me joinging up. I would've gone in after high school, or now had I been smart to take the officer route over the enlisted route. Instead I realized myself and transitioned.

That's why I ask if I'm crazy. I'm thinking now that I have false hopes and I just need to let it all go because they won't be changing the rules anytime soon. Detransition would probably be more harmful than joinging the military would be helpful.

Thanks everyone.
I'll be there someday, I can go the distance
I will find my way, If I can be strong
I know every mile, Will be worth my while

When I go the distance, I'll be right where I belong
  •  

Miharu Barbie

Oh Wolf, if there is any other way that you can find to keep your life moving forward without joining the military, I implore you to try that first.  My experience is that the military is no place for a trans person.

Granted, it's been a long time, but when I was outed by an army psychiatrist in 1985, a very serious attempt was made on my life.  (Some people in positions of authority over me tried to murder me!  I was 19 years old.) 

My captain (battery commander) and his sergeant major (second in command) organized an "accident" so that they could be rid of me.  I must have a guardian angel watching over me, because I was tipped off 24 hours before my date with death.  I ran for my life.  The FBI hunted me for over 10 years before I calmed down enough to turn myself in as an army deserter.

Unless things have changed in the military an awful lot (IE. unless the small minded, mean spirited people who are sometimes in charge have all gone away), the military is not a safe place for anyone actively struggling with gender identity issues.  Please think long and hard about what you want for your future.  Your life may depend on it.

Best of luck!
Miharu
FEAR IS NOT THE BOSS OF ME!!!


HRT:                         June 1998
Full Time For Good:     November 1998
Never Looking Back:  Now!
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MrTesto

Technically, if you can "pass" - including biologically - as female, you could have a chance. However, if you have a mental health diagnosis (whether GID or something not specifically trans), that will come up in the pre-enlistment screening. If you have transitioned enough to pass as male, do you really want to endure the harassment and danger of being visibly variant? Yes, even though DADT was removed.

Here is another way to think about the issue. A buddy of mine had similar desires to serve honorably, in uniform, in a structured environment that would challenge and test him, and reward accomplishments with advance. Can you find a paramilitary setting where those motivations would be satisfied? Some of the rescue services, for instance, have challenges as hard or harder than many members of the armed forces.

When the rates of suicide in the US military are higher than the deaths in combat, I would think that being trans somehow, de/re-transitioning, and being in that environment would be really hard to endure. I just don't see how someone could be at their best.

However, if you want to get more detailed "insider" info, contact the Servicemembers Legal Defense Network at www.sldn.org/. Good luck.
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angelfaced

OMG DO NOT JOIN THE MILITARY !!!!!!!!! i joined a long time ago and it was the worst decision of my life. it took 5 years just to undo the damage being in the miltary as trans has done. DO NOT JOIN THE UNITED STATES MILITARY !!!!!!!!!!!
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angelfaced

just to add, i had a friend in the military come out as trans a couple of months after DADT was repealed. Did she get to be herself and serve her country openly and proud ? NOPE!!!!! She was kicked out as if she was some kind of deranged person. DO NOT JOIN THE UNITED STATES MILITARY !!!!!! IT WILL RUIN YOUR LIFE !!!!!!!!
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A

Wolf Man, I would suggest that you make a list of what makes you like the idea of joining the army, and then look into other jobs that have as many of those points in common with it as possible. Why not have a nice, open, long meeting with your school's guidance counselor? There's no better person in resolving career issues. They even have personality tests to help find jobs that are theoretically likely to be compatible with you.

This is pretty simplistic, but... Policeman? Fireman? Paramedic? Nurse? Member of humanitarian missions? Something else?

I would suggest to make joining the military a last resort, so to say. Because when you're in, you're stuck for a number of years. Also, if you want to get out, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you would have very little recognised knowledge or experience usable in a new career. Also, if your new career choice implies studies, will you really be motivated by going back to school? Most people who have worked for a while are too used to having more money and no homework to find the motivation to do so. People who were in the military then stopped often have trouble finding other jobs, from what I've heard, too.

As a last word... Being a transsexual who doesn't transition or detransitions (almost) always means a lot of sadness. But there's a very high chance that someone can still be happy not exactly in the career that was their one first choice back in high school. Gender dysphoria has been proven to (almost) always come back violently; on the other hand, the vast majority of people can find a second choice career that makes them just as happy, or almost, as their first choice.

And you don't even know for sure that you'll like the army that much. But the army is one of the very few careers that requires you to sign a contract for many years. I find it perfectly logical to try some less binding career paths before the one you can't easily get away from if you don't like it...
A's Transition Journal
Last update: June 11th, 2012
No more updates
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Ayden

I would have weighed in sooner, but I just saw this topic. I grew up in the military, and I will say that yes, it did take care of me and my family at a price. My father was a recruiter, mp and later headed a bio med unit at a military hospital. When he was a recruiter, he used to actively discourage "gender variant" (quotation used to imply anyone who did not fit the typical male/female roles) people from joining because in his words - "it's not safe, especially if you end up in the wrong basic group." He told me that I was, under no circumstance to join because I was too masculine for a woman and he had watched young women (mostly who were percieved as lesbians, whether or not they were didn't matter) get harrassed and a few who were assaulted. As per standard in the military, sexual assault rarely leads to prosecution.

I would consider all potiential outcomes before you join the military. If you fel the need to perform a service similar, why not look into law enforcement, fireman, or something similar? The military is a situation where they don't care about equality because you sign your life over to them for a set period of time. Even with DADT repealed, my dad's friend has dealt with a huge amount of emotional hell from his fellow airmen and soldiers. Make a list of what you want to get out of it, and see if you can find a different job that would offer you the same things.

If you want to join, detransition to join, or anything inbetween, it it ultimately your choice. However, I would take all avenues into consideration. Even if you decide to get yourself kicked out later because you don't like, discharge from the military will follow you like the plague.
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Devlyn

Hi Wolf Man, I spent four years in the Army, MOS 16P Chaparral missile. I recommend a hitch in the service for everyone. That feeling inside you is your inner warrior. Even if you don't end up in the service, you have my respect for wanting to join. Hugs, Devlyn P.S. Battery commanders have First Sergeants, not Sergeants Major.
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Miharu Barbie

Quote from: Devlyn Marie on July 26, 2012, 11:06:43 AM
P.S. Battery commanders have First Sergeants, not Sergeants Major.

Thanks Devlyn.  Of course they do.  All I could remembered as I was typing was the term "top" in reference to First Sergeant Gottschalk.  It's been a long time.

Oh, and I also remember that he was a major a-hole who told me point blank to my face that he was going to kill me.  Some details fade... and some are forever scorched into the memory banks.
FEAR IS NOT THE BOSS OF ME!!!


HRT:                         June 1998
Full Time For Good:     November 1998
Never Looking Back:  Now!
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Devlyn

"Top" until you were on the carpet, then it was right back to "Yes, First Sergeant!" Hugs, Devlyn
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Wolf Man

Thank you Devlyn Marie. I respect your service to the country. Hooah.

As for service myself, it won't be happening. I'm in a position in my life where everything will be affected aside from just halting transition and with my current changes paired with a GID diagnosis on my health insurance I'm too far out to come back.

I'm so very glad you (Devlyn) understand the feeling within me, the pain I feel, and being supportive of my desire to join the service. I wish I had done this as soon as I graduated high school, but at this point I can't say I really regret anything I've done as a civilian.

Thank you everyone for all your comments, concerns, advice, all of it. It has really helped think everything through.
I'll be there someday, I can go the distance
I will find my way, If I can be strong
I know every mile, Will be worth my while

When I go the distance, I'll be right where I belong
  •  

A

Just out of curiosity, ehm. I don't mean any disrespect, but with my disliking of everything military, I have trouble understanding. Uhm, I would like to ask. Why did you want to join the army? Are you a fan of firearms particularly?
A's Transition Journal
Last update: June 11th, 2012
No more updates
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King Malachite

Quote from: Wolf Man on July 26, 2012, 06:46:41 PM
Thank you Devlyn Marie. I respect your service to the country. Hooah.

As for service myself, it won't be happening. I'm in a position in my life where everything will be affected aside from just halting transition and with my current changes paired with a GID diagnosis on my health insurance I'm too far out to come back.

I'm so very glad you (Devlyn) understand the feeling within me, the pain I feel, and being supportive of my desire to join the service. I wish I had done this as soon as I graduated high school, but at this point I can't say I really regret anything I've done as a civilian.

Thank you everyone for all your comments, concerns, advice, all of it. It has really helped think everything through.

This probably won't help but when I get down about not being able to join I just say that I'm a soldier that's fighting a different battle.
Feel the need to ask me something or just want to check out my blog?  Then click below:

http://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,135882.0.html


"Sometimes you have to go through outer hell to get to inner heaven."

"Anomalies can make the best revolutionaries."
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Devlyn

There are a lot of careers that directly support the military, you might get a lot of satisfaction out of helping. Hugs, Devlyn
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