laser hair removal... which one?

[Elsa]

Hi all,

I probably will be starting laser again... probably on a loan this time... (crossing fingers)

I am confused between an IPL laser, diode and an Nd Yag machine from 2 places.

the IPL/diode laser worked for while on my skin (face and front) but ruined the skin on the back and it only lasted a short while -this was the same place I went to last time.

the Nd Yag will be more painful and might work better on brown/yellow skin - this would be from a franchise med spa - apparently they had to take consent from higher up since they have never done the face/beard area before.

cost/price are the same. although the previous place I went to is offering it to me at the older/same rate as earlier - which is much much lower.

Please help - I am reallllly confused here...

[Kelly J. P.]

 Okay, here goes.

IPL isn't laser.
Diode is good for white skin, and some darker skin types.
YAG is much better for darker skin types than diode is. It may also be good for those pesky chin hairs because it penetrates deeper.
Alexandrite lasers are the best for pale skin, but are quite ineffective on darker skin types. And they cause burns for those.

So, depends on your skin colour. Avoid IPL like the plague, and get educated on settings - I can give you a couple samples, assuming you're white.

Alexandrites tend to need to run at 16+ J @ 18mm to be permanently effective. The number goes to 26J + at 15mm. Usually comes as a Candela brand.
Diodes tend to need to run at 36+ J @ 12mm to be permanently effective. The number goes up to 48J + if it's @ 9mm. Usually comes as a Lightsheer brand.

Make sure you get the appropriate settings, or it'll cost you time and money. If you can't get them at one place, then go to another. Also note that, in this economy, laser prices are negotiable - I reduced my prices by 75% (from $200/session to @$50/session before taxes) simply by getting each place to actually compete with each other. Depends on your confidence and charisma, though.

... There really should be a laser-related sticky.

[Elsa]

Thanks Kelly!!! am sooo glad you told me that although now I feel very stupid  for even considering the IPL/diode place again!

But its a good thing though - otherwise it would have just made things worse ... will look for better places thank you sooo much Kelly!!!

You've really been veeeerrrryy helpful...    a big hug from me

no am not while - I have mixed heritage - Portugese, British and Indian... (I dont know if thats the reason for my skin colour ) - so its kinda like walnut brown ... is the best way for me to describe it.

I guess the best bet for me would an Nd Yag machine ... or maybe the diode one - but the diode one looks too much like an IPL one so I can never be sure.

[Elsa]

The IPL burns are probably also whats resposible for my ruined skin in several places. 

[A]

I'm not sure why you say diode and IPL like they're the same, but anyway. Some additional things:

IPL can be somewhat good for body hair and such, but not recommended on the face's sensitive skin and tough hairs, and either way, it's less effective than laser, burns more skin, less hair, and is not recommended for any skin that's remotely dark, because it doesn't "target" hairs as well as lasers. It also takes at least twice the sessions to have permanent results. And even then, a lot more so than laser, part of the hairs that were thought to be gone for good come back after a few months. Moreover, IPL often being bought by salons as a cheap and simpler alternative to laser, regardless of the technology's efficiency, many machines you'll encounter will be low quality, more so than laser (though be careful - there are many cheap laser machines too!)

Diode is considered the best "overall" laser, with Nd:YAG being more specialised and more effective on darker skins. I didn't know alexandrite lasers were actually more efficient on pale skins, though. I thought they were an old technology not much used anymore because diode lasers did just as well on pale skins, but better on medium-toned ones. Kelly is quite the expert. x3 And I want to say again that I'm jealous of the price she got, because I spent all of my savings on laser, and she got it for less than 1/6 the price I paid. xD

Also, check well whether your skin is actually suitable for laser. It's sad, but if your skin is not just "darker" but actually in the "dark" category, it could be that even Nd:YAG laser would be a waste of money, and you'd have to have electrolysis on it all.

[mementomori]

I'm not sure why you say diode and IPL like they're the same, but anyway. Some additional things:

IPL can be somewhat good for body hair and such, but not recommended on the face's sensitive skin and tough hairs, and either way, it's less effective than laser, burns more skin, less hair, and is not recommended for any skin that's remotely dark, because it doesn't "target" hairs as well as lasers. It also takes at least twice the sessions to have permanent results. And even then, a lot more so than laser, part of the hairs that were thought to be gone for good come back after a few months. Moreover, IPL often being bought by salons as a cheap and simpler alternative to laser, regardless of the technology's efficiency, many machines you'll encounter will be low quality, more so than laser (though be careful - there are many cheap laser machines too!)

Diode is considered the best "overall" laser, with Nd:YAG being more specialised and more effective on darker skins. I didn't know alexandrite lasers were actually more efficient on pale skins, though. I thought they were an old technology not much used anymore because diode lasers did just as well on pale skins, but better on medium-toned ones. Kelly is quite the expert. x3 And I want to say again that I'm jealous of the price she got, because I spent all of my savings on laser, and she got it for less than 1/6 the price I paid. xD

Also, check well whether your skin is actually suitable for laser. It's sad, but if your skin is not just "darker" but actually in the "dark" category, it could be that even Nd:YAG laser would be a waste of money, and you'd have to have electrolysis on it all.

someone gave me a 600 credit of IPL sessions  they dont want to use , i dont need it for my face, that hairs already all gone

but i was going to use it for my thighs , i know laser is better than ipl , but i dont really want to knock back 600 dollars of treatment for free , is it possible to do ipl on my thighs then finish it off with laser instead of getting the 16 or so treatments needed with IPL

[A]

I think it is. IPL, even though it's not as effective, works roughly the same way as laser: one treatment, some hairs dead; two treatments, more hairs dead.

But since it's free and about body hair, if I were you, I'd consider having all the body regions where your hair annoys you to reduce it globally instead of focusing on one small region. Well, I think that's what I would do in your situation, since that way, many areas could be less hairy, less prone to ingrowns and much less visible once shaved, instead of having a small-ish hairless area and the rest hairy.

I haven't tried IPL myself, but if it works anything close to laser, the first few sessions should be the most effective, with the highest proportion of hairs out. Whilst with the face, eradication is pretty much necessary, with body hair, reduction can be very satisfactory. So having a few sessions on many areas would have my preference over many sessions on a few areas. Probably more hairs killed in total. And with just less dense, thinner, lighter hair, a lot of my body would feel quite fine, almost as much as total elimination.

Though sadly that doesn't seem possible with how packages are near me. You pay for a number of areas, 7 treatments, period. Well, there are individual sessions, but they're so much more expensive than packages that it's discouraging. But then again, I haven't shopped much, too convinced that Epiderma was the one only truly trustable laser clinic near me, which might be why I paid so much.

Depends on your preference and how your body hair is distributed, though, of course.

But uhm, about your question, yes, I believe starting with IPL and finishing it up with laser is possible. Though try not to put too much time between the "switch", because whilst it's not critical to wait more, keeping the right pace and spacing between treatments (I think 4-6 weeks is what most clinic advise) ensures optimal efficacy with hair cycles and whatnot, I think.

[Penny Gurl]

IPL is NOT laser! Basically IPL i a flash tube that zaps the skin.   Alexandrite or "ruby" laser is an older tech that uses a shorter red wave of light for it's laser pulse.  Since most skin tones contain red pigment there can be burning and also the red has a shorter wavelength and effects more of the top layers of skin.  The Diode sapphire type uses a blue wave length which is longer than red so it can get deeper quicker than the alexandrite type and since there is little blue in most skin types there is less reactions on the surface.  The Nd Yag are in the "green" bands and a slightly longer wave length.  I was digging into this all for the past few months before figuring out where I wanted laser done. I just recently started with the diode type, i have my second session Wednesday.  so basically if you're pale the alexanderite should be ok, however the other two are much safer for darker skin tones with the Nd Yag being the best for the darkest skin.

[Kelly J. P.]

 Well, Alexandrites are not equivalent to Rubies. The wavelength on Ruby is much shorter, and Alexandrites are still very much used and effective. Half the places nearby have one.

Other than that, good info to be had here.

[A]

Ah, that's the thing. I had confused alexandrites and rubies. Thanks, Mrs. expert.

[Elsa]

Thanks Everyone! 

I wish I knew all of this before I went for the IPL.

the place I went to is now offering either IPL or Diode laser at a higher price.
But I don't know if I can trust that they wont swtich out the machines.

Any idea how do I tell if the machine they are using is a respectable/good one?

I guess there should be sticky on laser... it may save people a lot of the headaches I went through.

[A]

Ehm, I think most diode lasers are of the LightSheer brand. But really, just look at the machine. You should be able to tell whether it's IPL or diode laser from what there is written on it.

And uhm, to begin with, I don't think they would be as dishonest as to use the wrong machine.

[Penny Gurl]

I know that the diode laser that I've had they had to apply cooling gel on my skin.  I'm not sure if that's a standard laser thing or just a diode thing, but light shear and soprano are two brands.. I would def ask them before they start you session to make sure they have you set up with the correct machine.

[NotThereYet]

Good morning everybody,
When I decided on laser, I did a ton of research because I bumped into some pretty horrible stories, stories of people who had very little or no results, people who had horrible reactions, and the stories of people who had both!!!
The first thing to do is have a dermatologist, or somebody with a lot of experience in skin things to take a good look at you, at your skin, that is. They need look at different spots, those mostly exposed to sun-light, those somewhat exposed to sun-light and those rarely exposed to sun-light. Only by doing that, can they really ascertain your true skin type (I, II, III, IV, V, VI - I was told I am  type II). It is also important for them to assess how much moisture you have in your skin: that plays a big role in skin reactions, recovery time, etc.
Now to the machines:
The machines you find in most places are GentleLase and Lighsheer. They are both laser machines for people who are not type V or VI. Lightsheer might be effective for type VI, as well, but the Gentle ease is not recommended for type VI skin types. 
The GentleLase (755nm long-pulsed Alexandrite laser) is very effective for hair removal in lighter skin types, since it has excellent pick up by melanin (skin and hair pigment).
The Lightsheer (810nm long-pulsed Diode laser) is not absorbed by melanin as well as the Alexandrite which may make it less effective for thinner or lighter brown hairs, but allows some darker skin types to be treated. 
For dark skinned Hispanics, middle eastern and mediterranean people Lightsheer may burn and not be as effective. Yag is preferred.
For lighter skin people, above all those with thinner or lighter pigmented hairs, the GentleLase is the bestr option.  People with darker skin tones, like some Southern Italians, like Middle-Easterns, like Hispanics etc-- the Lightsheer (or the GentleYag) would be a better.  Dark brown people and black people should go with the GentleYag.

I hope this helps,
Andrea :-)

[Elsa]

Thanks ladies! Thinking about side effects and the burns I already have send a shiver down my spine and looking at google makes me even more scared.

There is a possibility that the operator may be inexperienced so is there any safety or recommended setting for each skin type?

as worst case scenario what to do about the burns? I think lacto calamine, aloe vera gel helps...

[NotThereYet]

If your skin is walnut brown in unexposed areas, but it tans to a nice brown-dark brown when you are out in the sun, you should avoid the Alexandrite at all costs. Try Yag, instead. If they have diode, you could try test spots at very low settings and see what happens.Tthen go from there.

I hope this helps,
Andrea

[A]

Uhm, you know, there are always burns. Not always very intense, but always present. Either way, cooling for the first minutes, then many layers of an aloe gel.

[Elsa]

Thanks everyone!

After a lot of thinking and praying have decided to go with the place with the Nd Yag machine although would need to ask them more questions before committing.

Will be going today there for a patch test if it goes well - I'll probably go for it - am super excited and super scared at the same time.

It would make more sense to wait a week to see the results of the patch test and check out details. So will have to hold back and try not to get excited and go for it immediately.
I soooo badly want to get rid of this facial hair...

Girls please please please pray for me

[Elsa]

Well ... went to the place with the Nd Yag - was impressed so far - and have made an advance payment... and my appointment is fixed for Tuesday

have decided to go for only face area for 365.985 US$ (or INR: 20400) which is almost the same as the place with the IPL/diode was charging earlier for the face.

although I am very tempted to go for the full body for 1,645.14 US$ (or INR 91700). they have a special discount till the end of the month - hence it is so cheap (not as cheap as I would like but still cheaper than most places)

However so far I have already spent  968.784 US$ (INR 54000) on the IPL/diode (7 on face and 6 on back+full abdomen).
Which I am seriously regretting. 

anyways my plan is to get the face hairs lasered and then go for a full body wax at home and generally wax as much as I can at home - which is ok since I don't have that much hair on my body, except legs and face.

It's not what I would like - I would like a full body laser - but for me it would mean risking tax problems and debt and risking my ability to take care of my elderly parents - also debt = no transition since I have to pay for everything meds + councillor, etc on my own.

[A]

Indeed, even for transition, debt should be avoided at all costs.

For your body, since you don't have much, I would perhaps recommend a big full-body wax, then an epilator for maintenance. It hurts like hell, but not so much if you just take care of the first few growing back as they come, it should be very manageable, quick, and more convenient than waxing all the time.

I don't know for how long you've been on HRT, but unless it's been very long already, you might want to avoid any big spendings on your body hair for now. It depends a ton depending on the person, but almost everyone has at least a little reduction. Myself, cyproterone has been having moderate to big effects on at least half of my hairy areas.

I still think I'll need some zapping done, but not as much as I thought I would. Especially since I don't think my hair is done reducing.

For a slower but cheaper effect, you could also get a home laser or IPL device. Very unlikely to take care of everything permanently, but my girlfriend has been using this thing and she says it works pretty decent. I'm planning on getting it myself at some time. For body hair, semi-permanent reduction can be enough, since permanent elimination is so expensive, I guess!

PS: Sucks that it's you, not the government and former employers, who takes care of your retired family. :x