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The RLE requirement is rubbish

Started by GendrKweer, August 14, 2012, 07:23:17 AM

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GendrKweer

I'm writing this to offer support for those people who do not fit into neat categories, or those who do not prefer to wear makeup, or those who prefer not to have their marriage annulled by a legal gender change, or those who for safety reasons are unable to live full time as an unpassable woman. In short, you don't have to, and you can still get the blessed surgical relief the rest of us have (hopefully) enjoyed.

Sorry, don't mean to be categorical, but this is a big pet peeve of mine. As someone who knew what gender I was (NoT the one into which I was born), I resented any directives that placed my gender future in the terms of whether I changed my name or wore a skirt or told people what my gender was. Although I identify as a female, I am more androgynous in appearance. I never liked feminine clothes, although all of my clothes are bought from the female racks. I never liked makeup, but then again, neither does my cisfemale wife, who has supported me through my transition in more ways than I could say. Plus I live in eastern Europe, where very simply put if you cannot pass 100% of the time, you will eventually be physically put to grave danger. I am okay regarding passing, but not 100%. That is not acceptable for me or for my wife. Who, incidentally, would be deported if I changed my passport to F because same-sex marriage is illegal in my homophobic country, and she is an immigrant.

In short, for anyone who knows what they want / need but feel the RLE requirement will significantly ruin / damage their lives, they can be excused by an empathetic psychologist / surgeon. My US psychologist and my being 12 days post-op by Dr Suporn of Thailand can attest to that.

RLE, while trying to minimize the risk of regret for us, fails to understand that for most of us, we've had 20, 30, 40, 50+ years to digest, absorb and understand who we are. They are flexible enough to allow that you might also at this point know how you wish to present yourself to the world. Thank god.
Blessings,

D

Born: Aug 2, 2012, one of Dr Suporn's grrls.
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Apples

And that's exactly why RLE it is not requested anymore in Spain, as I was told by the president of the local trans association. Not all of us have a decent face pre-HRT and FFS...
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Tristan

yeah. it really is pooh. my fella is a general surgeon/trauma surgeon and got me everything from head to toe without the 1 year rule thing. he says they are more like guide lines anyways and theirss always a way around them. but i dont like those rules for one year either.
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BlonT

There are a few sides most forget , you can have a hate to your male/female body as it is, but who say the other lifestyle fit you ? so a tryout as a rle is not so crazy. What is crazy is the must and time set to it,would be better if a therapist be the judge of that, one more reason to find a good one :)
And we do need to learn a FEW new rules to act/behave like a mtf sit open legs or a ftm closed knees.
My 2 ct`s
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Apples

Quote from: BlonT on August 17, 2012, 11:26:12 AM
And we do need to learn a FEW new rules to act/behave like a mtf sit open legs or a ftm closed knees.

I already do that, although mostly as being respectful to other persons in public spaces with limited space...

RLE cannot be done by everybody. Maybe If you are young and have a good starting face it could be, but not all of us are even 1% passable, and it will only cause more trauma. And that's why it is not mandatory anymore, at least for my case. On the 28th of July a new anti discrimination law was approved, and one of their points was to ban the mandatory RLE. The previous requisites for starting HRT forced you to fit into an stereotype of woman, instead of allowing you to find your place and only transition until where you need it. Now it is only necessary to have at least three months of therapy with an specialist.


Not all of us can identify as women upon starting. I'm afraid about changing how I recognize myself, but I will try to accept it.

Last thoughts: For me, all of these years have already been some sort of RLE for a male life, and I never felt satisfied on it.
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mementomori

Quote from: BlonT on August 17, 2012, 11:26:12 AM
There are a few sides most forget , you can have a hate to your male/female body as it is, but who say the other lifestyle fit you ? so a tryout as a rle is not so crazy. What is crazy is the must and time set to it,would be better if a therapist be the judge of that, one more reason to find a good one :)
And we do need to learn a FEW new rules to act/behave like a mtf sit open legs or a ftm closed knees.
My 2 ct`s

i dont believe in those social rules :P
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henrytwob

I think you have an excellent point about acting like a cis female!!!

How do CIS females act???? Your are cpletelu correct about the stereotyping. I am a female (still, even if I don't like it). I don't act it, at all!!! "Gendered" behavior runs the  the entire spectrum from very 'femimine' females to very 'butch-type females' - and guess what - they are all women and each is equally valid.

The strict binary rules are relaxing. Thank Goodness.
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AbraCadabra

Wow, quite some categorical statement to put it out like that.

Lots has been said about it before and I shall not repeat any of it, no need since you got it sorted for yourself. As for others... not sure it's as simple as to plain "rubbish" RLE.

If you (MtF) are female, act, present and feel the part - in fact you do nothing other than DOING RLE... like it or not.

As for the time your being, acting, feeling, fitting in... not sure if you suggest to expect to go to any e.g. SRS surgeon and ask for it like having some hair transplant appointment/surgery...
and expect that to be - how it ought to work for everyone else too?

... I just cannot see it as a viable alternative... just cannot... and is this just me?
Axélle
Some say: "Free sex ruins everything..."
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kelly_aus

I don't think the requirement for some sort of RLE before SRS is a bad thing. I do think the actual length of time required should be more flexible. I think the RLE provides a valuable time for a person to decide if they can, in fact, live as their target gender.
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sandrauk

OP makes an excellent point and one which I hadn't thought of :

Could I pass as a female- no

Could I live with a vagina- easily

Although this isn't on my personal radar, I see no reason why girls who don't have the genes to pass fulltime should be denied SRS. Did it develop as a requirement for the NHS to pay?

I don't live fulltime but I do have breasts that give me no problem at all. When I go through airport security I like to conceal some metal so that I can see the look on the face of the male that has just grabbed both of my boobs. I'm bad I know >:-)
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AbraCadabra

Quote from: sandrauk on August 18, 2012, 06:38:29 AM
OP makes an excellent point and one which I hadn't thought of :

Could I pass as a female- no

Could I live with a vagina- easily

Although this isn't on my personal radar, I see no reason why girls who don't have the genes to pass fulltime should be denied SRS. Did it develop as a requirement for the NHS to pay?

[clipped]

Excellent point? Really?

It could be next that NHS will pay then for tattoos, ear-piercings, stapling, genital modifications of all sorts (there are sure to be plenty of those around also...)

This suggestion is also WAY off my radar for sure, as I feel that Transition is in this case mixed up with all sorts of fetsch based body modifications.
Not exactly what most females (TS) have in mind? Just a suggestion...

Baffled,
Axélle

Some say: "Free sex ruins everything..."
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sandrauk

I wasn't meaning to generalise about you or anyone else, Axelle.

But do you therefore think that girls who don't have the capacity to undertake a RLE , for whatever reason, should be denied SRS?

Tatoos and fetishes - sorry but that's nothing to do with it.

I've made my choices and I refuse to feel like a second class citizen.

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AbraCadabra

Quote from: sandrauk on August 18, 2012, 07:28:14 AM
I wasn't meaning to generalise about you or anyone else, Axelle.

But do you therefore think that girls who don't have the capacity to undertake a RLE , for whatever reason, should be denied SRS?

Tatoos and fetishes - sorry but that's nothing to do with it.

I've made my choices and I refuse to feel like a second class citizen.

I'm somewhat limited I suppose, having some difficulty finding a grounding in living, acting, being, presenting all male --- and then insist on having SRS.
That feels as alien to me as splitting one's penis like a burst banana, or any of those other wild and wonderful things people like to have done.
The possibilities are almost endless...
In the end though, and in fairness "we cannot understand what we cannot feel..."
and I fail to feel, how one can without RLE, without any notion to BE female, want to have female genitals?!
Honestly its way out of my ball park - and obviously just that for practically any therapist knowing the SOC.
It's in my take a road to hell in a hand-basket, to insist on some such.

Just my thinking,
Axélle
Some say: "Free sex ruins everything..."
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Beth Andrea

QuoteOriginally posted by Apples:

Last thoughts: For me, all of these years have already been some sort of RLE for a male life, and I never felt satisfied on it.

Wow, that's a really good way of looking at one's "previous" situation...as a RLE trying to live as a man.

For me, it sucked. By doing RLE (without being asked to, I just couldn't stand any more days as a guy), it has only confirmed my suspicions...I am a woman.

And I want my surgeries (SRS and FFS), dammit! Call hither thine Insurance Companies!!

:)
...I think for most of us it is a futile effort to try and put this genie back in the bottle once she has tasted freedom...

--read in a Tessa James post 1/16/2017
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GendrKweer

Hey all, everyone added some great points. IMHO, the main thing is the rules have relaxed to take us as individuals, not some category or breed or subspecies that all needs the same thing.

I just draw the line at the antiquated notion of femininity/masculinity, and I'm surprised more of us don't do the same (Axelle, I'm peering over my glasses at you, my clearly strong sister)... My cisfemale wife does not cross her legs, she does not wear women's clothes often, she has been mistaken for a little boy (seriously cute, but still).... doesn't give a cr@p. I am lucky that I have been told I'm very um cute/attractive/androgynous, which is nice, except that I'm six 2, so passing becomes hit or miss. And where I live, there are people who will most certainly kill you for it. It happens in the states enough as well, but eastern europe can be very nasty indeed.

My wife and my close friends know we're lesbians and call me she, my body and mind are at ease at long last having had srs a few weeks ago, when I look down I am not shaken anymore and when i make love to my wife (in good time, but ohgawdicanteventhinkaboutitrightnow) it will feel as it always should have felt, inside and out. These are the things that matter to me, and none of them have anything to do with RLE (as defined by those blasted rules). What the grocery clerk calls me (sir/maam), what the bartender eyeing the M on my license, says to me, is irrelevant.

And of course that's totally not even getting into the subject of genderqueerness, genderf0ck, etc.... it should be your right to have transformative srs surgery under whatever conditions you want. Isn't it your body?? But that's another topic!  :-X

Everyone should be able to be themselves, that's all.
Blessings,

D

Born: Aug 2, 2012, one of Dr Suporn's grrls.
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Apples

Yesterday I went out, and...  more girls were sitting with the legs spread than crossing.

BTW, crossing legs too oftencan lead to a medical condition for the knees, so it is not a good idea, specially if you already have a medical warning on the matter, like me.
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Padma

I've been living full time as a woman since last summer. The fact that the woman I'm living full time as is not feminine is irrelevant.
Womandrogyne™
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lilacwoman

Quote from: Apples on August 19, 2012, 04:13:08 AM
Yesterday I went out, and...  more girls were sitting with the legs spread than crossing.

BTW, crossing legs too oftencan lead to a medical condition for the knees, so it is not a good idea, specially if you already have a medical warning on the matter, like me.

this is about as much nonsense as I've seen in a while.

presumable the girls were wearing trackie bottoms?
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justmeinoz

I have no problem with the concept of Real Life Experience as such, despite the fact that we start of with no real experience to build on, so if it was serious there would be a massive support package in place at the start. 
The word I have a problem with is "requirement", especially if there is any mandatory minimum time limit.
Some people can hit the ground running and others will need a long period of learning to be their target gender.
Karen.
"Don't ask me, it was on fire when I lay down on it"
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luna nyan

Personally I think there have been issues with RLE over the years depending on what sort of gatekeeping it is used for.

Using RLE as gatekeeping for HRT I think is possibly cruel.  There is a significant portion of our population that doesn't have a chance of passing without some of the effects from HRT and to force someone to go through the hazing process of being clocked constantly for 3 months before the first script is cruel in my opinion.  For some people that might not matter, but for some others, that can be the difference between life and death.

RLE prior to SRS though, probably has value in my opinion.  Living a period of time in your target gender is a good way of affirming what you know is going on in your head so to speak.

What I just put up above goes out the window once you start talking about genderqueer, gender->-bleeped-<- though.  I suspect that over the next few decades, that gender norms are going to relax somewhat, and that the gender binary may erode a little.
Drifting down the river of life...
My 4+ years non-transitioning HRT experience
Ask me anything!  I promise you I know absolutely everything about nothing! :D
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