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Requiring lower surgery to change gender markers - justified or totally whack?

Started by Anon, October 13, 2012, 07:54:53 PM

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Do you think lower surgery (met, phallo, hysto etc) should be required to legally change all gender markers?

Yes
No
Undecided/Don't care
Other (please post)

eli77

Quote from: Sparrowhawke on October 22, 2012, 11:30:00 PM
I wasn't really talking for my self there. I think we should just be able to change our gender markers without any of of hrt or anything, but I don't think that that would be possible. There is no way in hell that we (at least now. I don't know about the future) that we can make cis people think that's a good idea.  Remember there will always be transphobic people mothers that think that transwomen are just men that wants to rape women... And as far as I know. Nobody would ever take hrt because of that. I really wish it wasn't so, but it is.

You only need a letter from a doctor or a psych to change your gender marker in Ontario. In Argentina, you don't even need the letter. So... perhaps it's getting a little chilly in hell at the moment? I dunno.
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unknown

Say that to Europe and the us and other places I think. I myself hate it too. You really shouldn't discus this with me. I really wanted a world where your gender, but mostly sex (because not many places let you change the gender marker to actually reflect your gender) wasn't everywhere. We seriously don't need it other than for that medical reasons and even for that we only need for vary few things. It's not that I'm against gender, just that it need to be on places where is no reason for it.


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Taka

it's kinda ridiculous that a guy can be registered as female just because a doctor misgendered him. and even more ridiculous that he can't correct this when he realizes there's been made a mistake. just think about it, how much couldn't a guy abuse the privilege a female body gives him, if he only wasn't too busy being depressed about not having the right parts... (sorry, some binary logic sense seems to have left me)

Quote from: Sarah7 on October 23, 2012, 12:38:08 AM
You only need a letter from a doctor or a psych to change your gender marker in Ontario. In Argentina, you don't even need the letter. So... perhaps it's getting a little chilly in hell at the moment? I dunno.
yep, now that it's fall, hell is getting chillier again
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell,_Norway
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Green_Tony

It's not a requirement in the UK, nor is HRT--people can choose to delay or not have surgery. All we have to do is get a name change and a doctor's letter to change our passports, driver's licences and other kinds of photo ID. We can have new birth certificates as well if we just show that we've lived full time with the new name for 2 years, and again confirmation from a doctor, but no requirement for HRT or any surgery.

Cis people aren't going out and doing this willy-nilly and society hasn't collapsed.
Something went a bit wonky with space and time. Now I'm here.
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ChaoticTribe

Lower surgery should never be required to change your gender marker.

That would not be ethical for many reasons, not the least of which is the fact that some people cannot physically undergo a surgical procedure. Their body isn't strong enough or healthy enough for it, and preventing them from changing their gender marker due to a physical limitation is a violation of the disability acts.

Not only that, but if you really want to require a penis for 'malehood' and a vagina for 'femalehood' then what in the world do we do with cisgender men who lose their penises? If female were default we could 'force' them to be listed as women, but then that means any MtF doesn't need bottom surgery, since a vagina wouldn't be a requirement of being listed as female.

This creates the conundrum of 'sexless' people. Would they get all forms of government I.D. taken away from them? Would they create a new category of 'neuter' for those who have no sexual organs?

After all, if a vagina is required to be listed as female, even a man who lost his 'legal right' to be male through injury would still not have the 'legal right' to be female.





The entire idea of requiring surgery is bogus, insane, and simply doesn't work in theory. There are too many situations where it falls apart.

And really, the government is worried about people 'hopping' gender? That's not going to do a dang thing. That's not going to cause trouble even if people were doing it. People who want to evade a crime need only to get a 'fresh' social security number and name, they're not going to live as the other sex. They don't NEED to. After all, there are billions of people in the world, it's not like someone's going to say, "That's a man, so he must be ______."

Good grief.
Was falsely diagnosed as a female-to-male transsexual.
I'm just a cisgender female picking up the pieces.
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Green_Tony

Couldn't agree more, ChaoticTribe. As I have said, where I live it's not required that people get any physical modification at all, and we haven't descended into chaos with cis people swapping names every other minute or something. It's actually still pretty hard to get the final gender recognition certificate, too.
Something went a bit wonky with space and time. Now I'm here.
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ChaoticTribe

Quote from: Green_Tony on October 25, 2012, 09:27:07 AM
Couldn't agree more, ChaoticTribe. As I have said, where I live it's not required that people get any physical modification at all, and we haven't descended into chaos with cis people swapping names every other minute or something. It's actually still pretty hard to get the final gender recognition certificate, too.

Yeah here in the U.S. it's actually pretty weird how it works. The different states have different requirements.

For example, in some states you only need a Dr's note saying you identify as male to get a male driver's license. In those states you can generally get your birth certificate switched the same way. Yet some states make you get surgery to have your birth certificate changed, and may or may not require that for your license. The social security office won't accept anything less than surgery, but for your passport you can just use your state I.D. and a Dr's letter. So you can have documents listing you as BOTH, and they're ALL valid. It's weird but infinitely better than not being able to change things at all. Slowly over time more and more places are letting you change things with less and less hassle but I wish that it would go faster, that's for sure.
Was falsely diagnosed as a female-to-male transsexual.
I'm just a cisgender female picking up the pieces.
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Snowman77

That's wrong on so many levels and I don't agree with requiring lower surgery in order to change one's gender marker.  >:(
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Kevin Peña

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