Is it really all about passing?

[mm]

Yasuk014, I see you are living a dorm.  How is this going for you being preop?  I am preop and didn't think I could handle a dorm of guys so have a single apartment near campus, which is working fine for me.

[yasuko14]

Yasuk014, I see you are living a dorm.  How is this going for you being preop?  I am preop and didn't think I could handle a dorm of guys so have a single apartment near campus, which is working fine for me.

Hmm in my college you can live with the gender you associate with. I did have a roommate one semester and It worked out great, She had no idea and It was no issue. That was my freshman year, now I have a single dorm room on a girls floor and my boyfriend essentially lives with me.

I enrolled into college as female & I have been on hormones half my life so I don't really have any problems passing or any secrets that can be seen behind closed doors.. Usually just seeing breasts is enough for another girl to look away and think nothing. I could never imagine living with males oh god, that would be so degrading and obvious to everyone.

Does your school not respect your associated gender?
Can you live on campus in a LGBT dorm? (we have a dorm with LGBT floors) allows coed, any form of couples and so on.
Or do you just feel uncomfortable letting loose with another person around to see everything before makeup face and after a shower?
And did you register as male or female? It gets hard If your recorded enrolled gender does not match the one you present in daily life.

[Alainaluvsu]

Guess we have to agree to disagree.

One thing I have noted on most trans forums I have read, the people who aren't living full time yet all think getting every little detail of their appearance perfect is what will make them pass/be accepted by society while people who are living full time -mostly- say it's more about your attitude and self confidence. Without that, it doesn't matter how "passable" you look. Sure you have to look reasonably close to your target gender but there is more to how the person acts/sounds etc than their appearance. I guess online we focus on what someone looks like in pictures so much we start to believe that is what matters most?

I sort of agree, but I'll add that if your appearance isn't full on female - your voice better be spot on perfect. Voice can really tip the scale more than anything else. And the trans girls tend to think it's all about pitch - it is NOT. It's all about resonance and inflection. Resonance can be tough to correct I suppose but inflection can take you a very far way. I know a male that talks with a female inflection but a slightly masculine resonance, and a very deep pitch and he is CONSTANTLY maamed in drive throughs and on the phone. Furthermore, I was watching TV from a distance (I have poor eyesight) and Ross Matthews was on TV, and I had to ask "Is that a lesbian or a guy?"

[yasuko14]

I'm in the same boat. Women pretty much all do the same thing. But of course if you're prettier than they are, they're freaking haters. I used to LOVE cis women pre-hrt. I loved my ->-bleeped-<--hags. Now most of them I meet are snotty brats that don't even smile when talking to me unless there's a reason for them to be nice. But of course you tell them you're trans... they love ya! They know if a guy they want is hitting on you, they can just tell him your secret....

I have this problem bad now!

No girls at my college even want to talk to me. Id say Girls HATE me. I used to have alot of girl friends when I began my transition but then as the years went by I became more and more hated among the female gender because I essentially was loved by guys in my school. I get snobbed and it feels like everyone is afraid of me or judging me because I am attractive. All my gay friends tease me saying I'm very intimidating to guys and girls, but I'm not trying to be. Iv'e turned into an expressionless cold beauty type, because of all the "haters". I think being popular because you're pretty only goes so far, I think Iv'e become isolated because I look unapproachable.

The only friends I have are gay men, lesbians, and Heterosexual females that I knew since childhood. Being with girls used to be comforting and safe for me, now its just full of jealousy and betrayal like a competition. I can't really make friends with guys because they always want something more or send it in that direction and I get disappointed because I wanted a friendship not anything more..
like.. "oh..no.. please don't say what I think you're gonna say.."

I feel really alone.. These days..

[Apples Mk.II]

Not about passing 100% of the time, but I'd feel quite bad If I was to attract attention all the time and hear on my back "That's a dude". I don't want to go through such a process to still feel like a mockery. I don't have a passable face, so I'd have to rely a lot on confidence, mannerism, voice, etc... And I still don't know if I can obtain these other points. I'd have to reevaluate them when I have more self confidence. For now, I am stuck with the body repairs.

[Ave]

I have this problem bad now!

No girls at my college even want to talk to me. Id say Girls HATE me. I used to have alot of girl friends when I began my transition but then as the years went by I became more and more hated among the female gender because I essentially was loved by guys in my school. I get snobbed and it feels like everyone is afraid of me or judging me because I am attractive. All my gay friends tease me saying I'm very intimidating to guys and girls, but I'm not trying to be. Iv'e turned into an expressionless cold beauty type, because of all the "haters". I think being popular because you're pretty only goes so far, I think Iv'e become isolated because I look unapproachable.

The only friends I have are gay men, lesbians, and Heterosexual females that I knew since childhood. Being with girls used to be comforting and safe for me, now its just full of jealousy and betrayal like a competition. I can't really make friends with guys because they always want something more or send it in that direction and I get disappointed because I wanted a friendship not anything more..
like.. "oh..no.. please don't say what I think you're gonna say.."

I feel really alone.. These days..

I'm sorry yasuko :/. There's this girl in my spanish class who is a lot like that, she's the prettiest girl in the class, but she's also probably the most isolated since no one wants to approach her

[mm]

Yasuko14, I will try to answer your questions.  I am ftm and started back to college as a girl after being out a couple of years.
Does your school not respect your associated gender?
Not really

Can you live on campus in a LGBT dorm? (we have a dorm with LGBT floors) allows coed, any form of couples and so on.
no LGBT dorm or floor in a dorm on my campus

Or do you just feel uncomfortable letting loose with another person around to see everything before makeup face and after a shower?
I could never have another person, stranger around, I am preop so all my girly parts showing and couldn't ever have a guy or another around when I am getting dress.

And did you register as male or female? It gets hard If your recorded enrolled gender does not match the one you present in daily life.
I came back to school as a female on the record, but immediately started dressing more as the guys and now really appear as many of the guys do here at school.  I older students and professors know my history and use he/him with me most of the time.  The newer students may or may not know.  I use the men's restroom in a nearby building where there is little chance of seeing someone I know.  There are unisex or handicap restrooms in the newer buildings on campus.  I am waiting for the time when I get out of school and can only be seen as a guy and can live completely as one.

[Alainaluvsu]

I have this problem bad now!

No girls at my college even want to talk to me. Id say Girls HATE me. I used to have alot of girl friends when I began my transition but then as the years went by I became more and more hated among the female gender because I essentially was loved by guys in my school. I get snobbed and it feels like everyone is afraid of me or judging me because I am attractive. All my gay friends tease me saying I'm very intimidating to guys and girls, but I'm not trying to be. Iv'e turned into an expressionless cold beauty type, because of all the "haters". I think being popular because you're pretty only goes so far, I think Iv'e become isolated because I look unapproachable.

The only friends I have are gay men, lesbians, and Heterosexual females that I knew since childhood. Being with girls used to be comforting and safe for me, now its just full of jealousy and betrayal like a competition. I can't really make friends with guys because they always want something more or send it in that direction and I get disappointed because I wanted a friendship not anything more..
like.. "oh..no.. please don't say what I think you're gonna say.."

I feel really alone.. These days..

Oh my God, this is so right... every word of it! And men are always stuttering around me. And if a guy actually has the confidence to try, they're either cat calling or they go 0 to 90... like "So do you have any brothers or sisters" to trying to make out with me. Just ruins everything! Either they're too intimidated or they're too horny. I'd love some straight friends  (no offense to homosexuals), because all my friends ever want to do is go to a gay club where I get NO attention except from lesbians. Too bad men just wanna do me and women just wanna keep the men from me. I can see why women say it's easier being a guy!

@yasuko and alaina

I think the (100% passable) mtf face also can have this kind of... sharp? Look to it that is modelesque and maybe subconsciously a little intimidating to people.

Funnily, I found that other girls are more bubbly around me when I'm with my bf, probably because I look pretty approachable in comparison to him.

You may be right.

[Cyndigurl45]

For me it's about being me, I discovered many years ago that I not going to be that little hottie in a bikini on the beach, I am a woman and as such I can wear a bikini if I want to or a skirt or a dress you get the picture.

[yasuko14]

I'm sorry yasuko :/. There's this girl in my spanish class who is a lot like that, she's the prettiest girl in the class, but she's also probably the most isolated since no one wants to approach her

It really sucks, I had a Japanese class last year and it was everyday of the week. There were tables in the class that seated 2. Everyone was new and I ended up being the only person who sat alone..  3/4 into the semester I eventually began to use the seat next to me to put my over-sized Coach purse on. I guess I was eventually embarrassed at my social lack so I put my purse there like a spoiled brat as if it were intentional.. Sometimes I would go shopping and put stuff on the empty half so I didn't look so... Icy cold..

In high-school It seems like when you're pretty everyone wants to get to know you because the social network in school is so close and everyone knows every juicy bit about eachother. In college everyone's past and life is a mystery so I feel like when there are attractive people around nobody wants to get close, basically a small fear.

I honestly think If I smiled more, It would break the ice, But sadly It isn't really my nature.
I'm not the friendly smily type, more the blunt, loyal, protective, type with really strong eye contact.. So that being said.. I dunno what I should do hahaha.

[yasuko14]

Yasuko14, I will try to answer your questions.  I am ftm and started back to college as a girl after being out a couple of years.
Does your school not respect your associated gender?
Not really

Can you live on campus in a LGBT dorm? (we have a dorm with LGBT floors) allows coed, any form of couples and so on.
no LGBT dorm or floor in a dorm on my campus

Or do you just feel uncomfortable letting loose with another person around to see everything before makeup face and after a shower?
I could never have another person, stranger around, I am preop so all my girly parts showing and couldn't ever have a guy or another around when I am getting dress.

And did you register as male or female? It gets hard If your recorded enrolled gender does not match the one you present in daily life.
I came back to school as a female on the record, but immediately started dressing more as the guys and now really appear as many of the guys do here at school.  I older students and professors know my history and use he/him with me most of the time.  The newer students may or may not know.  I use the men's restroom in a nearby building where there is little chance of seeing someone I know.  There are unisex or handicap restrooms in the newer buildings on campus.  I am waiting for the time when I get out of school and can only be seen as a guy and can live completely as one.

That seems like a very complicated situation. The only options I can think of right now are to transfer to a different college or rough it out for the next few years. The key element with an ideal college experience is the "starting anew" aspect. If you are still in the early stages of your transition, it may be a while before you can easily glide through life stealth in a new setting.

My advice to you is leave no loose ends.. & live the most male life you can. I would even suggest laying low for a bit socially in your college scene if you intend to stay there long term.. Kind of come and go without drawing much attention..

I'm not sure.. that's all I could come up with.. X.X

[yasuko14]

Oh my God, this is so right... every word of it! And men are always stuttering around me. And if a guy actually has the confidence to try, they're either cat calling or they go 0 to 90... like "So do you have any brothers or sisters" to trying to make out with me. Just ruins everything! Either they're too intimidated or they're too horny. I'd love some straight friends  (no offense to homosexuals), because all my friends ever want to do is go to a gay club where I get NO attention except from lesbians. Too bad men just wanna do me and women just wanna keep the men from me. I can see why women say it's easier being a guy!

You may be right.

Not to sound like someone out of Mean Girls.
But being pretty is SO hard.. HAHAHA I joke.. but not really.. o.o

I'm getting used to being independent and virtually alone, more than I was in the past.. I have a feeling that If I went around with no effort put into myself and wore very plain baggy clothes Id be easier to approach and what not. Sadly I also feel that now in (20's), it's a big power trip with straight girls. The pretty ones that try hard think they are above all the rest and it's a big competition or something. I feel like girls would get smart with me if I presented myself at a lower level.. I'm not sure. I demand respect and being attractive gives me that so maybe it's a trade off? IDK

[Ave]

It really sucks, I had a Japanese class last year and it was everyday of the week. There were tables in the class that seated 2. Everyone was new and I ended up being the only person who sat alone..  3/4 into the semester I eventually began to use the seat next to me to put my over-sized Coach purse on. I guess I was eventually embarrassed at my social lack so I put my purse there like a spoiled brat as if it were intentional.. Sometimes I would go shopping and put stuff on the empty half so I didn't look so... Icy cold..

In high-school It seems like when you're pretty everyone wants to get to know you because the social network in school is so close and everyone knows every juicy bit about eachother. In college everyone's past and life is a mystery so I feel like when there are attractive people around nobody wants to get close, basically a small fear.

I honestly think If I smiled more, It would break the ice, But sadly It isn't really my nature.
I'm not the friendly smily type, more the blunt, loyal, protective, type with really strong eye contact.. So that being said.. I dunno what I should do hahaha.

there might not be anything to do about it. This girl tries to strike up a convo with other girls and they look like -_-

and when she tries with the guys they just stare at her boobs and get nervous and flustered.

[yasuko14]

there might not be anything to do about it. This girl tries to strike up a convo with other girls and they look like -_-

and when she tries with the guys they just stare at her boobs and get nervous and flustered.

Story of my life Q.Q

[Alainaluvsu]

Not to sound like someone out of Mean Girls.
But being pretty is SO hard.. HAHAHA I joke.. but not really.. o.o

I'm getting used to being independent and virtually alone, more than I was in the past.. I have a feeling that If I went around with no effort put into myself and wore very plain baggy clothes Id be easier to approach and what not. Sadly I also feel that now in (20's), it's a big power trip with straight girls. The pretty ones that try hard think they are above all the rest and it's a big competition or something. I feel like girls would get smart with me if I presented myself at a lower level.. I'm not sure. I demand respect and being attractive gives me that so maybe it's a trade off? IDK

lol well it's true. Don't get me wrong, I am very, very happy I pass and I'm happy I'm not an ugly girl, but I sometimes wonder if people would be nicer if I wasn't passable or just some ugly looking girl. I know not passing is going to draw way more negative attention, and being ugly is going repulse most men, but at least the women wouldn't snob it up at me. I know when I didn't pass as well women were a whole lot more cheery with me and nicer. Oddly enough, the ones that are nicer are the very pretty ones with perfect skin, teenage to early twenties... and in the back of my head I'm calling her names, jealous as hell.

The female mind is so ... nasty!

As far as wearing homely clothes... you may be right. Maybe people are seeing that we are trying and that threatens them because trying DOES get results as far as looking better.

[Ave]

Maybe the people in your Japanese class were intimidated because you are Japanese and they didn't want to sound stupid

Idk. I haven't been full time for nearly as long but I think it's easy to slip through the cracks in the college scene, especially when a part of you is holding back. People have all kinds of things going on in their life and you're right, it's not like high school. They don't have to be there... they want to enjoy being "grown up" now and work on their degree.

BUT, I think even if you don't naturally smile and bubble around people, you can make an effort to do it more. There are a lot of bitchy shallow people but that just makes it so much more rewarding when you meet someone who really cares about you and wants to interact with you on a human level. 

I understand though because I personally have a fear of being hurt in the end by people.    it is hard to be completely unaffected by the kind of childhood you get stuck with as a trans person.

What you said about college is so true, unless you go to a REALLY small school, no one gives a flying eff, everyone is just trying to get that A or whatever.

[Natkat]

Not to sound like someone out of Mean Girls.
But being pretty is SO hard.. HAHAHA I joke.. but not really.. o.o

I'm getting used to being independent and virtually alone, more than I was in the past.. I have a feeling that If I went around with no effort put into myself and wore very plain baggy clothes Id be easier to approach and what not. Sadly I also feel that now in (20's), it's a big power trip with straight girls. The pretty ones that try hard think they are above all the rest and it's a big competition or something. I feel like girls would get smart with me if I presented myself at a lower level.. I'm not sure. I demand respect and being attractive gives me that so maybe it's a trade off? IDK

I know the problem,
I am not extremly "pretty" myself but I have been told to be rather cute and good looking.
some people belive because my look is fine I got no problems at all, and talk with "well but your so handsome so sure your life must be a wonder" context

now I dont belive im very handsome im very casual looking for my age somedays I look like crap somedays I look fine, depends whatever im going out or not.
one of my friends got this problem way more cause he do has alot of sex apeal so he can hardly speak to anyone
without them trying to get in his pants.
its actually a big problem for him specially now when his not single.
----------
well...
now im ftm and I would say passing is important to me, I just feel alot better when I pass than when I dont, but its not everything.

I guess how important it is to pass also might have something to say for your area, its not really a secret that its more easy being trans if you pass, but in some areas it can be very dangerous if you dont.

[mm]

That seems like a very complicated situation. The only options I can think of right now are to transfer to a different college or rough it out for the next few years. The key element with an ideal college experience is the "starting anew" aspect. If you are still in the early stages of your transition, it may be a while before you can easily glide through life stealth in a new setting.

My advice to you is leave no loose ends.. & live the most male life you can. I would even suggest laying low for a bit socially in your college scene if you intend to stay there long term.. Kind of come and go without drawing much attention..

I'm not sure.. that's all I could come up with.. X.X

Yasuko14,  For the time I have left in college I think it is best that I continue to stay where I am and finish my degree and then move and live as completely as possible as a guy.  I do not draw much attention here now and am satisfied that I can basicly live as guy even thou many know my history.  After I graduate and am making more money I can aford to do many of the transitional thing I want, surgeries etc.  Thanks for responding to me here in this thread.  Getting on T should help me too.

[peky]

What you said about college is so true, unless you go to a REALLY small school, no one gives a flying eff, everyone is just trying to get that A or whatever.

Ah, welcome to real life! College in this way is a preparation for real life. Later on when you go and work for a company, or start your own business you will find that people do not give a flying eff either, everyone is just trying to make a buck or further their careers.

So what? you said. So, then is when your social skills have to be sharpen and apply as a politicians do. why? because at least in our western society, the people you interact with are always asking themselves -consciously or unconsciously- "what is in for me?"

So, the trick to success is to interact with people so that after you live, all they remember and associate with you is that you make them feel good, good about themselves, and good about life.

You do not need to be a fake to do this, and it is not manipulation. It is all about emotional intelligence. Everybody you interact with has needs, and a little bit of mindfulness and attention will tell you what those need are. Then all you have to do is fill those needs. Most all the times all is needed is a acceptance, a smile, a kind word, a "break," or a gift. The amazing thing is that most of this gifts really do not cost you anything.

The personal outcome of setting yourselves to live in this "mode" is that your life is easier as most people will re-tribute in kind, you will succeed!