Are you an Androgyne or are you just androgynous?

[Kaelin]

I think it's natural to have a reaction when someone pushes or rushes you towards a path that you are not interested in or not prepared for.  Even if the idea is something that is nice in theory (being strong), there are all kinds of extra ideas that come with becoming strong, and those ideas can be overwhelming.  Furthermore, even if you're open to an idea, if the person pushing you towards it is doing so with too much zeal, it's natural to question where all that energy is coming from.  Finally, you may not like the idea of being "manipulated" in this way to be convinced to eat spinach or do something you're not comfortable with.

There are lots of possible reasons.  Androgyny could be a part of it, but there are other explanations as well.

[Shantel]

Something else just occurred to me. I remember as a child, maybe just a little prepubescent at that time, when an older sister said something about eating spinach or something like that so I could get big muscles and I absolutely cringed. I think I may have even said something--expressed my disgust at the idea of being muscular because I also seem to recall some uncomfortable expressions on my sisters and mom in response to what I said. This was before I realized I was gay, before I was experiencing any real clear sexual attractions to anyone. That memory and the feelings that went with it stuck with me even after I started coming to terms with puberty.

I get the feeling that your sisters were picking up on the fact that you were a gay little boy probably born that way and they knew it before you did. I recall my wife's little brother, and knew them all as little kids. I knew he was gay before that word was used in that context. Her little brother was a sweet kid, the apple of her eye and the two of them are still very close today. I recall when she came to me in fear and trepidation to tell me that her little brother, by then a grown man, had come out as gay, and the relief that came across her face when I said, "What are you going to do, throw the baby out with the bath water for God's sake?" I loved the kid just as she did. He and his partner will be spending Thanksgiving with us, both are great guys! I was also secretly beginning to deal with my own homophobia back then because of an inner revelation that I was probably Bi though I have never acted on it, but have known men that I was attracted to, I just never acknowledged it and stuffed the feelings. I remember an elder back in the day when I went to church who was married and had kids, but had lived a secretly gay double life. When he was exposed, the rest of the leadership put such ostracizing pressure on him that he committed suicide, I was pissed and angry and never went back. He had been a gentle, sweet man! Sorry to take up your post with all this, but your comments have brought this to the surface for me.

As for facial hair, I recall how I had always envied a couple of really masculine looking guys in eighth grade who already had dark beards and had to shave, I didn't even have peach fuzz and it concerned me. Years later when I was in Army basic training I was told to go back in the barracks and shave. All I had was blond peach fuzz by then, very sparse at that. Now I am at a place in my life where I wish I had never shaved because I've had to shovel out a small fortune to the electrologist just to get rid of what I do have. Oh well, life is short, eat your desert first! 

[dalebert]

I think it's natural to have a reaction when someone pushes or rushes you towards a path that you are not interested in or not prepared for.

That's how I have thought about it thus far and only recently contemplated anything a bit more complicated. It was like they were rushing me into adulthood things with some sexual implications and it didn't help that they were my blood. I had an older brother who was gone a lot but I was mostly a boy surrounded by girls and women and at that moment I kinda felt like the one rooster in the hen house.

Even if the idea is something that is nice in theory (being strong), there are all kinds of extra ideas that come with becoming strong, and those ideas can be overwhelming.  Furthermore, even if you're open to an idea, if the person pushing you towards it is doing so with too much zeal, it's natural to question where all that energy is coming from.

Exactly! Why was my sister talking about me getting all muscled up? Ew.

Finally, you may not like the idea of being "manipulated" in this way to be convinced to eat spinach or do something you're not comfortable with.

A very reasonable hypothesis, but I remember it well enough to know that wasn't it at that moment. Picturing myself muscled was just seriously grossing me out and just wasn't in alignment with my self-image. Again though, I think it was mostly because I was still a kid and I didn't have more foresight about my upcoming puberty at the time. Also, because I was a good 2 or 3 years older than my local friends and so was the first one to start going through puberty, they made comments about my hairy legs. I'm actually not very hairy at all for an adult guy but compared to prepubescents, my legs really did seem extra hairy at that moment and that kinda stuck with me. I was always checking out other boys my age who had a more androgynous appearance and feeling wracked with jealousy. But the point is puberty caught me completely off-guard and left me kind of reeling for a while. I feel like I did ultimately come to terms with it, kind of observing that it was in fact happening to the guys around me as well and was "normal" so I'm not really inclined to interpret it as androgyny. More just the typical awkwardness that most teens go through but with extra gravy on top.

[finalyfree]

thank you shantel iv read some of your posts , you sound like a very interesting person .im asexua land always thought i was a ->-bleeped-<- have only recently found out i am an androgyne and it fits me perfectly

[Maddie]

Nothing fits me perfectly.

There is dysphoria, but I seem to be able to live with it. Does that make me less "female", not cracking up and crying all day?

I'm sure that I am more of a woman, mentally, than most ciswomen. At the same time, I'm sure I'm more of a man, mentally, than most cismen. Guess I don't like people that much. And there's another one! Empathy is supposed to be positively correlated with prosocial behaviour. I'm empathic but not prosocial. It's not that I don't know what others are feeling, it's that I know too well. It's too much. I don't need to take strangers' problems upon myself, I have enough of my own. Introverted, yet not shy. Good theory of mind, but lacking psychopathic verve.

"Androgyne". ManWoman. What makes a man? What makes a woman? If I were a hermaphrodite, I might call myself that.

"androgynous": looks ambiguous, could be either. I'm not sure about that. When I look in the mirror, I either see a woman OR a man, it depends on what I'm going for at the time. If I really stare into the reflexion for ages, at some point, there's either the malevolent stranger or the scared little girl archetype looking back, most of the time.

[Taka]

@ dalebert: i think it's fairly normal to not like the thought of getting all hairy and muscular and all when you're the first among your peers. i remember my youngest brother thinking about shaving his body when he started growing fur on his legs, but he got over it and now accepts himself the way he is. but there are also guys who won't accept any hairiness or too masculine features on themselves, and would rather look beautiful for so long as they possibly can. and still id as gay, or some might also be straight or bi, i don't think it's limited to any specific sexuality. it's ok for a guy to not want to be buff (i'd still like him to be healthy though), and for a girl to want to be that. personally i don't see any strong link between that and gender

[foosnark]

I am androgyne without being androgynous.  Mostly.

I can't choose between "both" and "neither."  Both and neither of those are true.

[Schuyler]

I am an Androgyne, and ID as both male and female. My gender expression, however, is androgynous. It's a confusing attempt at trying to explain the complexity of my inner workings and physical exterior.

[Shantel]

I am an Androgyne, and ID as both male and female. My gender expression, however, is androgynous. It's a confusing attempt at trying to explain the complexity of my inner workings and physical exterior.

Me Too!

[Schuyler]

Before I found this site, I don't think I'd ever hear those words. It's a comforting thought!

[Nero]

Wow. top result is male identified andros. That's pretty interesting, I didnt expect that.

Can't tell how many are AFAB or AMAB though.

[Nero]

Can't tell how many are AFAB or AMAB though.

That's true. Still, its interesting.

Yeah, I'm one of the ones who picked it and wasn't expecting it either. Pretty cool actually.

[Jeanette Marie]

  The question of what characteristics make a man or woman has been around forever and quite honestly, I can't answer it definitively now any better than I could twenty years ago. Maybe the question is wrong.

[Kinkly]

At the moment my ginger identity is like an old stero system with a knob for bass and another knob for treble.  lets call the bass male and treble female, most of the time both knobs are all the way up but it seems as if the male knob has been turned down a little bit while they both move a little bit every couple of hours the male isn't going as high as it used to.  Like I'm changing from being fluid both <-> neither to both<-> female my look has slowly changed toward a positive androgynous look basically it has changed from man in dress toward bearded lady with help from hormones but I think most people still see me as man in female clothes.

[soulfairer]

Currently I present myself as male, just because it's easier. But I like some of the male-ish traits also, so that it's ok for me if people get confused or just cannot choose something (though for now they choose male because I use a male voice). I also have some feminine traits, so I am working on it and I hope someday people become 50-50ed when seeing me (I would like to be able to present & pass as both).

For now I find it to be hard to achieve, but I'll keep trying...

[Emerald]

"Are you an Androgyne or are you just androgynous? "

I'm an Androgyne.

[Phoeniks]

Just as a quick side note, I posted into this thread for 1,5 months ago and my gender id has changed. Nowadays I don't feel a girl at all. I feel I'm in the middle but just agender, or maybe a male androgyne. (That doesn't mean that I'm not feminine per se, femininity/masculinity has very little to do with gender in my head.) It used to feel funny to experiment with having girly dresses and stuff, and now it only feels awkward to get read as a girl. Luckily my friends have commented that I look a lot more androgynish than I used to even a month or two ago.

Funny how impossible it is to see where I'm going, this feels like just an endless forest trip or like Bilbo leaving with the dwarves for the first time, or Sam stopping on the field and thinking he's the farthest from home he's ever been. Not that I'm a fantasy nerd or anything, but I just get this feeling of this being my personal trip with a great ring of power that needs to be thrown into a fiery pit of Mount Doom, and I don't even know what or where the ring is or where I need to take it.

[suzifrommd]

Not that I'm a fantasy nerd or anything, but I just get this feeling of this being my personal trip with a great ring of power that needs to be thrown into a fiery pit of Mount Doom, and I don't even know what or where the ring is or where I need to take it.

Wow! What a great way to say this.

[concrete Building]

Gender: Androgyne. Should be self-explanatory. Key word: SHOULD.

Androgynous? I'll let you decide on that.

[ativan]

Very.