Hyper Critical Scrutiny of Ones Self

[cindianna_jones]

.... taking a step back for the macro perspective.....

You know, TSism is an odd duck right?  I mean can anyone really explain it?  It is completely irrational.  Isn't it?  It seems almost comical that we can assign real logic to those things that we want and desire which lead to the actions we take.

I'm not trying to convey any real attitude or message here.... I'm just stepping back for a lookie see

Cindi

[Maud]

BTW, I do think you look great Mawd. I saw the pre-photo and you look 10000 times better as a woman :-). The bossing looks very light in that picture, but its hard to judge it without having a light shining straight above (you saw the my middle picture in the sun, that's probably the least flatering picture I have; my bossing looked horrible in that one). A similar picture of you could tell if really you have a significant bossing, or its all in your head, or on your forehead... In this case ;-). I think its very light, because I saw your old male pictures in the sun and it wasn't really visible on them  (when its significant, its visible). One advantage of removing the bossing is that it opens the eye even more; you already have large beautiful innocent eyes, so I can't imagine how they could be more open :-) (my eyes are more the piercing mysterious type).

I know! it's like the HRT fairy waved her magic wand and I went from ugly boy to pretty girl just like that, I kinda feel like I'm in a dreamworld.

When I posted previously I must not have had my head screwed on, It's not that bad. I can't walk down a street without having a guy obviously show that he's attracted to me so obviously I don't look that bad, just we are our worst critics and it's easy to get wrapped up in wanting to get rid of all male assosiated features even though what I should really do is step back look in the mirror and move on with things.

[Lisbeth]

Apparently you didn't get the jest of the OP Lisbeth. If you want to call my post criticizing TGs so be it, but you are mistaken.

And just for the record, what makes you think that people do not look at me and judge me harshly? Didn't you just do that?

Tich! Tich!  It sounds like I struck a nerve... like you did for some people.

IMNSHO, if it was a jest, then it was in extemely poor taste made at the expense of those who are most vulnerable to that kind of criticism.  I don't see how I can have "looked" at you to judge you.  I judged your words only.

[togetherwecan]

Apparently you didn't get the jest of the OP Lisbeth. If you want to call my post criticizing TGs so be it, but you are mistaken.

And just for the record, what makes you think that people do not look at me and judge me harshly? Didn't you just do that?

Tich! Tich!  It sounds like I struck a nerve... like you did for some people.

IMNSHO, if it was a jest, then it was in extemely poor taste made at the expense of those who are most vulnerable to that kind of criticism.  I don't see how I can have "looked" at you to judge you.  I judged your words only.

No you reacted to your mood of the moment without taking into consideration what I actually said nor what the meaning and intent of the OP was (which was obvious to everyone but you apparently).
If you have an issue with me I suggest you take it up in PM and not in the public forums.

[Dennis]

A typo seems to have inflamed this further. TWC meant 'gist' when she typed 'jest'. She is trying to explain that her intentions were good.

Please leave the argument be, ladies.

Dennis

[Keira]

Mawd,

I am critical and I now have all the vanity in the world while before I could have walked in rags with greasy hair and not cared what the hell people tought!! I took hormones in my 20's and had residual breasts from that time; I wore clothes 2 times to big too hide them, to hide myself! Even my pants were much too big, I had a 32inch waist but wore 36 inch pants that fell to my hips. Funny enough, In spite of all this neglect, everybody kept telling me I was a good looking man, and objectivelly, I suppose it was true; but I didn't care, I didn't feel it, it meant nothing to me!! An attractive women could have draped herlself all over me and I would not have known what to do about it; I was a walking zombie disconnected from my inner feelings and from my own body.

Interestingly, when I finally wore fitting female clothes, everybody was surprised by how slim and thin I was (I have a very slight frame with a substantial amount of muscle on it). Nobody had seen my real body contour since I was about 20.

I'll admit that I used to be very jealous of every single TS who I felt looked more feminine  than me!!!!  Before my surgery, I would have been jealous of you! Seeing the effect of HRT and surgery on many others gave me hope that maybe that could be me; I was moving forward regardless of HRT results, but I had a heavy heart that I would be unpassable.

Yet, just 3 months into HRT I went full time!!  Now, after 10 months of "therapy", I feel much better about myself, that eternal longing for something more has calmed down; I walk with a smile on my lips and a bounce in my step.

[Maud]

Mawd,

I am critical and I now have all the vanity in the world while before I could have walked in rags with greasy hair and not cared what the hell people tought!! I took hormones in my 20's and had residual breasts from that time; I wore clothes 2 times to big too hide them, to hide myself! Even my pants were much too big, I had a 32inch waist but wore 36 inch pants that fell to my hips. Funny enough, In spite of all this neglect, everybody kept telling me I was a good looking man, and objectivelly, I suppose it was true; but I didn't care, I didn't feel it, it meant nothing to me!! An attractive women could have draped herlself all over me and I would not have known what to do about it; I was a walking zombie disconnected from my inner feelings and from my own body.

Interestingly, when I finally wore fitting female clothes, everybody was surprised by how slim and thin I was (I have a very slight frame with a substantial amount of muscle on it). Nobody had seen my real body contour since I was about 20.

I'll admit that I used to be very jealous of every single TS who I felt looked more feminine  than me!!!!  Before my surgery, I would have been jealous of you! Seeing the effect of HRT and surgery on many others gave me hope that maybe that could be me; I was moving forward regardless of HRT results, but I had a heavy heart that I would be unpassable.

Yet, just 3 months into HRT I went full time!!  Now, after 10 months of "therapy", I feel much better about myself, that eternal longing for something more has calmed down; I walk with a smile on my lips and a bounce in my step.

I kinda had the same thing with the clothes, though that pic you saw was from a period when I was acctually quite fat I remember one time the ftm kid at my school (yeah I know, lucky bastard got to transition at school and didn't get much attention for it) for some reason acctually felt my shape and was like "holy ->-bleeped-<- you're thin" I just wore massive baggy t shirts and jeans all the time.


Oh and I went FT six weeks into HRT , I went out as me one night with some friends passed flawlessly and didn't go back. I've not really had any trans related therapy though, I see someone once every four months (seen her twice) but no therapy really takes place seeing as the first time I saw her I was a reasonably happy functional girl already, I just filled her in on things and she now does my 'mones for me.

[Lisbeth]

No you reacted to your mood of the moment without taking into consideration what I actually said nor what the meaning and intent of the OP was (which was obvious to everyone but you apparently).
If you have an issue with me I suggest you take it up in PM and not in the public forums.

My "mood or the moment?"  I don't see how that is possible, since I spent the night deciding what to say and how to say it.  It was never intended as an indictment of you.  It was a general comment of principals.  As far as I know I've never had an issue with you.  I don't understand why you have an issue with me.  I think you need to chill.

[melissa90299]

I read this thread yesterday and, quite frankly, it gave me a headache, but I was rather depressed yesterday, I have bouts of Post Acute Withdrawal Syndrome, but reading the  FFS pros and con BS is tiresome. I don't think one can truly understand the benefits of FFS unless she has had the procedure.

My experience relates only to late transitioners.  I see and know a lot of TS women and almost all of the later transitioners would benefit from FFS. There is a lot of rancor because some women can't afford it and make rationalizations as to why they don't need. It's called denial which I know a lot about now being a recovering alcohol and addict. I think it is ludicrous to pontificate that "passing" doesn't matter and, to me, it's not about making  myself up like I am doing a glamour shot it's about putting on a t-shirt and jeans and no make-up and looking passable.

One thing though, one needs to be prepared for what one wishes, having to listen to comments from the men in the TL everytime I walk down the street gets old too. Sometimes, I feel like wearing a burka.

Anyway, I have always been a woman, the point of transitioning is about getting the outside to match the inside, isn't it?

[Jeannette]

On the one side, there is the simple fact that we all, TG and GG alike are subject to gender stereotypes.  So some of our expectations have been imposed on us from the outside, and those expectations involve placing the value of a woman soly in her physical beauty.  The degree to which we have internalized those stereotypical expectations, controls to some extent how much we can accept ourselves as we are and how much we compare ourselves to some impossible ideal.  Perhaps TGs have internalized those stereotypes more than GGs, but that's not to say that GGs are immune.

On the other side, it is easy for GGs to criticize TGs for being sensitive about their looks.  After all, you have never walked a mile in our shoes.  If I could think of a way to create the equivalent of a Black Like Me experience for GGs, I would.  But how can I make you understand what it is like to not pass?  The best I can say is to try to imagine not passing as your gender for a whole year, and try to imagine how it would make you feel.  If that really happened to you, then you would become conscious of your appearance.  See the thing is, you just are a girl and when people look at you, you don't have to worry that they are judging you.  We do.  Every day.  Day after day.  A life-time's worth of days.  I have no desire for BA or FFS, and I pass, period.  But I spend alot of time looking over my shoulder expecting that I don't.  Until you've had to live like that, it's best not to throw stones.

for some reason, your post made me sad.  I agree with you though.  Beautiful words.

[seldom]

I read this thread yesterday and, quite frankly, it gave me a headache, but I was rather depressed yesterday, I have bouts of Post Acute Withdrawal Syndrome, but reading the  FFS pros and con BS is tiresome. I don't think one can truly understand the benefits of FFS unless she has had the procedure.

My experience relates only to late transitioners.  I see and know a lot of TS women and almost all of the later transitioners would benefit from FFS. There is a lot of rancor because some women can't afford it and make rationalizations as to why they don't need. It's called denial which I know a lot about now being a recovering alcohol and addict. I think it is ludicrous to pontificate that "passing" doesn't matter and, to me, it's not about making  myself up like I am doing a glamour shot it's about putting on a t-shirt and jeans and no make-up and looking passable.

One thing though, one needs to be prepared for what one wishes, having to listen to comments from the men in the TL everytime I walk down the street gets old too. Sometimes, I feel like wearing a burka.

Anyway, I have always been a woman, the point of transitioning is about getting the outside to match the inside, isn't it?

Actually my issue is not with those who transition later in life and FFS is pretty much needed to be passable.  My issue with those younger TS who think they need FFS especially when they go beyond just being passable (they basically look like they were always female, and are in fact hypercritical) or those who get dramatic FFS when it is never needed because   HRT did its job.  FFS is a wonderful thing for older TS because it does allow them to live a normal life.  If you would have read my posts in detail you would understand my critique of FFS.  For those who transition younger (under 30), the dramatic surgery (40 K the works, Dr. O) seems to be done mostly by those who are hypercritical of their own appearance and are going after an ideal which is unhealthy.  These individuals often exchange a natural feminine beauty for something that does look artificial.  This is where it gets into the creepy cosmetic surgery territory and there are generally deeper problems other than TS going on.  My opinion comes not out of jealousy, largely because I am transitioning before T has done any damage to my face (its wrecked havoc on my hair line though).

I have absolutely no issue though with FFS for those who transition in their later years and it is done to correct the damage of Testosterone, and it is the only way to be passable.    My issue is with those who never needed it in the first place.  Beautiful women who can pass without issue. 

[cindianna_jones]

We have to step well beyond the mark, to move past the imperfections that we perceive, to be better than we otherwise would have to be. We have to be super feminine, we have to find the absolute best clothes that de emphasize our odd sizes.  We are afraid to go out into public unless we are confident that we totally pass.

We dote on every little imperfection. We worry what everyone else will think. We can't stand rejection.

We take it all to the extreme and want every possible procedure or gimmick that will help us better fit in.  We pay the scammers. We read too many online posts. We waste too much money on therapists... just so we can live the "normal" life we perceive.

Unfortunately, what we perceive is not natural. It is a combination of our fears, self doubt, and real rejection.  And for this reason, we over compensate.  We worry too much. We go too far.

TWC, I learned a long time ago to finally be me.  I am a tomboy.  It's the perfect mask!  No one ever expects a tomboy to be a ->-bleeped-<-. I enjoy being comfortable.  I enjoy doing things that are by many considered activities that most men never do, let alone women.  I am not terribly feminine but definitely not masculine.  I managed to pass on many of the surgeries available to us.  I still wish I'd gone for the trache shave though....  Sheesh... thanks to Jerry Springer... everybody now knows about that tell.

[Ms Bev]

........ I am not sure how it will be received.

How will it be received? 

Thank You!


Bev

[melissa90299]

I read this thread yesterday and, quite frankly, it gave me a headache, but I was rather depressed yesterday, I have bouts of Post Acute Withdrawal Syndrome, but reading the  FFS pros and con BS is tiresome. I don't think one can truly understand the benefits of FFS unless she has had the procedure.

My experience relates only to late transitioners.  I see and know a lot of TS women and almost all of the later transitioners would benefit from FFS. There is a lot of rancor because some women can't afford it and make rationalizations as to why they don't need. It's called denial which I know a lot about now being a recovering alcohol and addict. I think it is ludicrous to pontificate that "passing" doesn't matter and, to me, it's not about making  myself up like I am doing a glamour shot it's about putting on a t-shirt and jeans and no make-up and looking passable.

One thing though, one needs to be prepared for what one wishes, having to listen to comments from the men in the TL everytime I walk down the street gets old too. Sometimes, I feel like wearing a burka.

Anyway, I have always been a woman, the point of transitioning is about getting the outside to match the inside, isn't it?

Actually my issue is not with those who transition later in life and FFS is pretty much needed to be passable.  My issue with those younger TS who think they need FFS especially when they go beyond just being passable (they basically look like they were always female, and are in fact hypercritical) or those who get dramatic FFS when it is never needed because   HRT did its job.  FFS is a wonderful thing for older TS because it does allow them to live a normal life.  If you would have read my posts in detail you would understand my critique of FFS.  For those who transition younger (under 30), the dramatic surgery (40 K the works, Dr. O) seems to be done mostly by those who are hypercritical of their own appearance and are going after an ideal which is unhealthy.  These individuals often exchange a natural feminine beauty for something that does look artificial.  This is where it gets into the creepy cosmetic surgery territory and there are generally deeper problems other than TS going on.  My opinion comes not out of jealousy, largely because I am transitioning before T has done any damage to my face (its wrecked havoc on my hair line though).

I have absolutely no issue though with FFS for those who transition in their later years and it is done to correct the damage of Testosterone, and it is the only way to be passable.    My issue is with those who never needed it in the first place.  Beautiful women who can pass without issue. 

Doesn't T do most of it's damage by the age 25, bone structure wise? I have seen a lot of DR O's patients and haven't seen a really bad one yet. (unnatural) And the only reason I see so many is that I used to live two minutes from his office and my chiropractor has an office next door (who I was seeing twice a week for a long time)

I wonder how you have seen so many of many of Dr O's patients, enough to conclude that these woman don't need the surgery. (BTW I have also seen a lot of before's and haven't seen one who didn't need it)

Again, there is awful alot of denial on behalf of those on the anti-FFS side. I would have no idea whether or not that would apply to you as I haven't seen your face. Anyway, as a recovering alcoholic and addict, I am learning not to "take other people's inventory" which is what you are doing and what I am doing by pointing it out to you. (Still learning)

[cindianna_jones]

I think that a lot of times, the antagonists are ones who really want it but don't have the wherewithall to get it

I see this in my business all the time.  I offer some fairly advanced equipment.  I'll hear people say that "I don't need that." from a "purist" attitude.  In reality, if they could afford it, they'd have it.

In this, our context, we do whatever we can to improve ourselves.  I don't think that anyone condems anyone else for what they want. But the quesiton to each individual remains... do you need it?

If I could afford the trache shave... I'd go have it done that's for sure.  As far as FFS, I've lived my life for so long as I am, I'd hate to make significant changes.  I think that people would notice... and then start asking questions.  You see.. it isn't that I wouldn't want it.  I'm afraid.  Pure and simple.

Isn't that what pushes our lives around in this "secret" we live?  We live in fear.

Cindi

[Melissa]

Doesn't T do most of it's damage by the age 25, bone structure wise?

You decide.  I posted my latest pic as of last night on my profile.  I didn't start HRT until age 28, I've been in it for a little over 15 months and I've never had any kind of facial surgery.  Does my bone structure look completely masculine?

[togetherwecan]

Doesn't T do most of it's damage by the age 25, bone structure wise?

You decide.  I posted my latest pic as of last night on my profile.  I didn't start HRT until age 28, I've been in it for a little over 15 months and I've never had any kind of facial surgery.  Does my bone structure look completely masculine?

No Melissa, you do not.  The difference is your confidence level within yourself. I believe that.
And I think yer cuter the helly!

[Melissa]

And I think yer cuter the helly!

Awww, thank you.

[Rashelle]

You don't need FFS honey. You are soooooooo cute as you are.
Rashelle

[tinkerbell]

You don't need FFS honey. You are soooooooo cute as you are.
Rashelle

I agree Rashelle.  What is that girl thinking about?

tink