Came out to wife, couldn't have gone much worse.

[Sara Thomas]

Well... not much sense in beating yourself, or being beat, over what's been done - can't take it back; and it's a waste of time and resources...

Reckon from here you'll just have to search for a way to make the path forward as painless as possible for all involved...

I wish you, and your family, clear minds and steady hearts.

Sadie out.

[Emily Aster]

I kept trying to see both sides here and the more I read that first post, the less I can do that. A mother that would commit suicide with an infant has got some issues, but it sounds like you suddenly realized you might be trans and immediately came out with it. Most people don't do that, especially not to a woman that's 3 months pregnant. Sounds like you told her on a whim without seeking professional guidance first. No sense worrying about the past now, but definitely take the time to see a therapist before making anymore rash decisions.

[peky]

She wishes our son wasn't born
She feels like taking him and driving off a cliff

First, this ^^ two sentences -if accurately quoted- should be taken very seriously. I strongly suggest you take steps to get some family psychotherapy. Second, I would advice you tell somebody about this threats, like a social worker, pediatrician, OBGYN, clergy. IT IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY AS THE FATHER TO PROTECT YOUR BABY!

It is possible that your disclosures combined with a post-partum depression may be at work here.

It is not unheard that pregnancy and delivery tend to exacerbate the dysphoria of TG/TS fathers.

Based on what you posted I would not think you acted maliciously, so i would not characterize you as a "bad" person. In a a highly emotional situation you failed to exercise a bit of common sense. This kind of of bad timing due to immaturity and inexperience happens to all of us, so do not beat up yourself, seek a way to fix up the situation.

I hope you do not get ban because you do need some help and advice at this juncture.

At this point I would advice you put your child and spouse well being first; approach her with love, apologize for your thoughtlessness. Seek therapy, and wait for a more propitious time and place.


Courage!

[Gemma_D]

Thanks everyone, I appreciate your concern. We're all fine and working through things, I rushed the first post and probably didn't put things across properly, anyway it's not worth going into much more. We are all going to be ok.

I actually want to thank Cindy in particular, I really did need that kick in the arse.

[Misato]

Now that I'm awake, and since I got myself so deeply involved in this already:

I can't promise I won't decide to leave her for a man

I'd say this line needs a lot of attention too, given how recently you've had a child together. Edit: exclude the "for a man" part.  Focus on "I can't promise I won't decide to leave her" and how that sounds to her.

Get help Gemma_D, for the sake of your child because it seems like both your wife and you really need it.  I regret you got name called when you reached out here, by a moderator no less, that still bothers me now that I'm awake.  I see you're cool with it now that I've previewed my post.  I still don't feel good about it and I am concerned you'll leave this taking away, I'm going to call it a naïve lesson.

I'm going to try and bury this and that'll be the end of it.

Over the long haul, odds are burying will not be a viable solution.  I suspect this because I tried that.  I also was impulsive for a very long time and that let me do things I now very much regret.  That's why I felt like I had to jump in on this thread in the first place.

But after recognizing I've been impulsive (Big thank you to my therapist for that) I've learned to think, and plan, and my life and my transition have improved markedly for it.  So the potential most egregious sin here Gemma_D, is if you didn't learn anything from this or you just quit or bury, and didn't try to find some healing.  Indeed, I'd say everything here is worth going into much, much, more detail about. Not all with us, but with a therapist, at the very least just to be on the safe side for everyone involved.

[Elsa]

I don't think anyone in their sane mind would disagree with Cindy on this.

But the timing of it is extremely bad, your wife is going through hell right now. Having a baby is not an easy task, giving birth to a child is not easy and in all cases extremely painfull and her body is going bonkers. So yeah, she was without a doubt terrified that her partner might leave her or worse just after the child is born, and it would not be possible for her in her present condition to be looking at you being TG in a rational manner.
And from her statements that you've quoted it seems she feels that she is tied you via her child and she really is desperate which any mother who's just gone through pregnancy would be.

I know am probably pointing out the obvious thing that a lot of people may have brought up.

Whether you may realise it or not you both need serious counselling on how to handle this and you BOTH need to visit a therapist. Things like a potential suicide could be a very real possibility for both wife and child, and if she has said that she wants to end both their lives then it's a very real possibility.

Personally I would die rather that let my kid suffer. And there are a lot of things you need to consider from now on and you need to start taking things seriously.
And please don't beat yourself up over this but for the sake of your wife and child - and yourself - be there for them.

[mintra]

Yeah, this is really sad and unfortunate. I'm sorry but I have my whole sympathy for the wife and the innocent baby here. I hope you get help from professional counseling and I wish you the best of luck with your family issue.

[Chaos]

Guess my timing was bad when i came out to my family friends on facebook and caused my mother to disown me.Wasnt on a whim or just out of the blue,it was something i dealt with ALL of my life and i was tired of hiding.If you look into the future and you say *now what if one would have waited for the perfect time.what would be the outcome?* for some of us,there is no perfect time because the longer we wait,the more we die inside.For some of us,huge life changes can kick us in the face with reality.do you agree? for example.you propose to someone and of course your nervous about it but its not until your standing up there and you realize *...ok things have really just changed* and many frankly pass out or throw up,and even worse-some run away and leave the other standing at the alter.Yes its sad but its true.she could have held it in but also think,what if that was all bottled up inside-even with a baby on the way? I am taking no sides but pointing out ALL aspects of how a person deals since we are all diffrent.So in my opinion,the timing should not be an issue but how the timing was dealt with and the outcome.Because in all reality,there is NEVER a perfect time for one to come out.EVER and if one claims there is then they have never dealt with the prosecution it brings.Oh sure one can *try* and ease the pain by coming in slowly,maybe even doing it in a loving manner and educating those around them but the reality is,it depends on the person your coming out to.nothing else.One who is open minded can accept it well while another -no matter how easy,loving or education you give- will always be cold,heartless and push you away.take my mother for example-she was the first i came out to,i tried to educate her on everything by giving her the information,she refused it bluntly and coldly,rebuked me,damned me and demanded i *fix it* or allow *her to fix it* and when she thought it was gone,she went back to her normal ways,until she found it wasnt.she then *when i offered the information agian and let her know nothing has changed about me otherwise and im still her child* she coldly acted like she didnt know me at all and walked away.So for me in this and my opinion,depending how she came out-the reactions she got was uncalled for and cold,regardless if the woman was pregnant or not.of course you also have to think *what is really bad timing?* I can give a few examples to this.1) standing at the alter with your soon to be wife/husband and saying *oh btw this is my coming out and in a few years ill be mr/mrs soon* 2) while having sex and trying to have a baby *hun im coming out to you and i hope its ok* and MANY more i can name.and even then,depending on how it was dealt with-is what matters.standing at the alter,and saying it out loud so the whole place can hear-yes is wrong,bad timing and in bad taste BUT if out of guilt you pull them to the side and say in private *i have to do this* then the reaction of the person determines.for many people they hide it even years before they get with that someone special and once they fall deep in love,it makes it even harder as they want that person to love them for who they really are-not a fake image.this is my personal opinion and to the OP-yes realize there is a way things can be handled and ways they can not but if you felt that you couldnt keep hiding,knowing a baby was coming and for me,idk if i could myself-not come out,knowing my life was about to change to such a high degree,then do not feel bad.only YOU know the motives behind why you did it then and do not beat yourself up for her reaction.just know that you have friends here.

<3

[EmmaMcAllister]

I'm shocked and appalled by Cindy's comments. Should we be free to tell people when they've made a mistake? Of course, but calling someone despicable is awful and wholly unbecoming of a staff member. Just because you made better decisions in your life does not give you the moral right to cast stones.

Gemma, you were being naive and unrealistic if you thought your wife would take this well, but don't let anyone here demonize you for going through a period of self-denial. MOST trans individuals try to repress and lead a normal life, you're not an exception. It's sad that it came to this, but you should not be vilified for getting married or conceiving. Your timing sucks, yes, but there really wouldn't be an ideal time anyway. Should you wait until your child is a toddler? A teenager? An adult? There's no way to avoid hurting your family, but that doesn't mean you should let yourself suffer with gender dysphoria. Do what you need to do to make sure your wife is emotionally and mentally stable, but don't pretend you're something you're not just to please others.

Shame on the negative people. Where's your empathy?

[DriftingCrow]

Welcome to the board Gemma. There's people on here who's come out after years of marriage yet managed to stay together, or peacefully went their separate ways, so don't feel too disheartened right now. I agree with people above who say that you and your wife should seek counseling, either together or separately. Coming out while pregnant may not have been the best timing, but what's done is done and it's time to try to repair fences. There is a part on this forum dedicated to significant others, maybe your wife would be willing to talk to some of the people on that board? It would be nice if you two could manage to stay together somehow so you both can enjoy your baby's young years together and manage to help each other out for awhile.

I hope things work out.

[MellowMoxxi]

Your timing sucks, but you have my support Gemma. Please get help for yourself and your family, and do what is best for your child first.

Also remember that the best thing may not be the clearest to see, or the easiest to do, but must be done. You and your wife need to both be there for your child, in some form.

[muffinpants]

Personally, I do not think it is a selfish thing to transition.. I think it is selfish of the others who tell people they shouldn't. It is YOUR life. You only get one and it is horrible for people to try to tell you how to live it. Honestly, I don't understand why it should affect someones loved ones, friends, or family, because it is not a big deal. People go through changes their whole life, why is this one so different? Now for Gemma's situation, obviously not a good time to do it, but I think I can understand why. I don't think anyone comes out 'on a whim'. I'm sure it was eating away at her and she just couldn't handle it anymore. To say you don't know if you would stay with your wife, obviously that is quite awful. If my gf had come out to me with those words, I wouldn't have wanted her to transition either! I want her to live the way she wants, but I adore her beyond words and it would devastate me to lose that in my life (male or female, it doesn't matter!). I can understand why your wife is freaking out, with having just had a baby and opening a new chapter in her life, you've just scrambled it all up. Your biggest mistake was prolly telling her you don't know if you'd leave her. Other than that comment, I can't see why she would care what you chose to do with your body, as long as you are devoted to her and your family. This is a mess you've gotten yourself into, but it doesn't mean you're a bad person or shouldn't transition. These are choices you're gonna have to live with and make the best of. Good luck!

[HelenW]

Gemma, your timing may have been poor but what's done is done and all you can do is make the best of things.  I came out to my wife quite badly as well.  She was by turns furious, depressed, ambivalent and hostile for the next months.  She still has issues now and then.  I know this because we didn't split up.

Give your spouse time to digest this news.  Don't sweep it under the rug and don't keep constantly bringing it up.  Provide her with education, information that she can use to make sense of what has happened.  If you find a therapist it might be a good idea if she could see one too, and not necessarily the same one.

Above all else give her time and patience, even though patience is the last thing you want to practice.  Indeed, get a qualified therapist, even if she won't go, so you can receive good assistance in dealing with your issues.  it's an unfortunate fact that most committed relationships do not survive a gender transition but that doesn't mean all will fail.  Plan for the worst and hope for the best.

I've always felt that the wives and husbands of trans people who married before transition are the biggest losers from the process.  Trans people do lose a lot - their entire lives sometimes - but they get an authentic life in return.  Their spouses, however, don;t get much of any reward.

Be patient, be kind (although that is hard a lot of the time), and above all else make sure you don't completely sacrifice your self in service of her needs.  It won;t work anyway and neither of you will be happy if you try.

hugs & smiles
Emelye

[Shawn Sunshine]

You picked a bad time to tell her, now from her perspective it looks like you don't love her and the baby, you need to get some help for your family fast, and please do not just run off and forget you have a child now. It doesn't work that way. You are a parent and you will need to deal with that 1st.

[Beth Andrea]

I don't see how some of you form your ideas...Yes, the timing was "bad", but as she said, "I couldn't cope."

We all know that one of the many problems with transitioning is depression, and that can go all the way to some form of self-harm...yet without knowing the extent of "I couldn't cope", you dare to suggest that Gemma should stay silent?

What I see here is a lack of empathy from the wife; her only saving grace is that she was pregnant at the time. But, if Gemma had cancer and was going to die in a few months...should she consider "timing" to be an issue? Best to let Mrs. Gemma know about significant, life-changing events as soon as possible, yes?

I don't see Gemma's issue as being "lack of timing", it's lack of encouragement and support to the new mom; specifically reassuring her that she will be with her and the baby regardless, and if that's not possible (due to the mother's rejection of Gemma), then whole-heartedly giving of financial support to both of them to the best of her ability. This is not something one can say just once or twice, but it must be said, and said often...and put into action as well.

I do agree on counseling for both of them, it sounds like there's an ongoing communication issue going on, as well as the current drama.

Gemma, please stay here and seek whatever knowledge or...*snort*...wisdom may be found...but also please seek out a counselor (non-religious; they tend to be hostile to transpeople) for everyone's sake on your side of the keyboard.

[JessicaH]

I think we have all done things that we later realized could have been handled in a better way.  None of us asked for this F**ked up condition and we all deal with it differently depending on our education, social circles, intelligence and life experiences. Lots of trans-people know something is wrong but they can't really put the pieces together because pieces of the puzzle are missing or hidden due to lack of knowledge or denial.

The unwitting trans-person then tries to navigate through life doing what family, friends and society expects them to do. They move forward with the expectation of things working out like they do for most people but they don't realize that this alter ego of a person ,that has been created for self protection and meeting societies expectations, has a terminal condition. 

For some, the condition is  apparant as soon as they can grab a barbie and point to the "princess dress" and then others can't manage to keep up with the gender expectations and constraints and give up even trying while still a teen. Others make it further and try harder to be normal by following societal cues and expectations but at some point the "condition" intensifies. The condition has a "break-point and we have as about much choice in where that break-point is than if we had a cancerous tumor growing in our body. For some, that break-point comes with very bad timing for us and or others, or it may come after our wife leaves us (in one way or another) and some of us manage to hold out and just die before it gets us.

If you die of cancer while you have small children, does that make you a selfish person?  I don't think so. The biggest choice many of us have in all of this is how do we manage this condition between the point of where we get all the pieces together and come to the full realization of who and what we are and the the breaking point/ terminal point.  I have studied this condition for the last 2 years with an intensity that I have NEVER put into studying ANYTHING. It has been an interesting two years to say the least and I have thought about putting a gun to my head "thousands of times during that period. I've prayed to god to change me one way or another and I've cursed him for my very existence and asked him to please just end my cowardly life.

Sometime during that period, I silently said to myself "I'm a transsexual". I couldn't even say it out loud and I'm a very strong person mentally and physical (not so much physically now) and I never backed down from a fight or challenge. I have climbed mountain peeks, jumped out of planes, drug machine guns and people through miles of forest, deserts and wilderness and pushed myself way past the point that many people break. But..... I wasn't strong enough to fight this though. Over the next few days I was able to actually say it out loud without stuttering and then a few days later I could look in the mirror and say it.  What does all that mean? It means that if some of the smartest, strong-spirited, educated people in the world with the the most to loose can't overcome this, how can anyone else?

For me, I know my terminal point is at least a couple of years out. That means that if I do nothing and continue as "him" and pretend everything is fine, I will be a very angry, bitter shell of a person that will either put a bullet in my head to everyone's relief,  have a complete breakdown and loose the capacity to support myself or anyone else or transition without any preparations such as HRT, therapy, hair removal or anything else which will be MAGNITUDES harder for me and everyone else than if I take this window of opportunity (that you may call a "Choice") to prepare for the inevitable conclusion.

With that said, I can understand the feelings of shock and horror that some have had to the original post but I'm absolutely disgusted that anyone would respond in such a harsh and demeaning manner (especially without knowing a LOT more of the story) to someone who is obviously distressed by their own acts of blindly floundering through this and making mistakes that are most likely a result of her coming to her own breaking point without any or enough preparation.  It's a really heartbreaking post and stories like this are the biggest reason that transsexualism needs to be demystified and destigmafied so that people don't have to go through such a personal hell to even look in the mirror and say "I'm a transsexual" and get the help they need before hurting others or becoming a severely broken and damaged person that is the fate of so many trans-people.

Gemma, please read this article which may give you some more understanding and acceptance of yourself and it may be something helpful for you to share with others in you life.  I found it to be quite an eye opener even after I read countless other things. 

14 Stages of Transsexualism
http://web.uvic.ca/~ahdevor/14StagesBLOCK.pdf

[Emily Aster]

Maybe my usage of the phrase "on a whim" was a bit too much in my first post. The content of the original post seemed like there was enough information to determine that there was no prior struggle with this issue. That 8 months ago, she realized she was trans and immediately told her wife, then continued to bring it up over the next 8 months. When most spend years struggling with it before coming to the conclusion of being trans and telling their loved ones finally, the rate at which she apparently told her wife seemed extremely fast to me. I apologize if it was too much, but at least the rest of my post was supportive.

[Misato]

What I see here is a lack of empathy from the wife; her only saving grace is that she was pregnant at the time. But, if Gemma had cancer and was going to die in a few months...should she consider "timing" to be an issue? Best to let Mrs. Gemma know about significant, life-changing events as soon as possible, yes?

Gender Dysphoria isn't cancer.  And I get what you're driving at Beth, I do.  I, we here, all know how it eats at a soul like a tumor, but it's not a real physical tumor that will kill you and is beyond any of your restraint.  Darn it, the impulsive thing I regret is telling my SO I was a crossdresser (cause at the time I thought that's where I peaked) right after her grandpa died.  I'm talking within 24 hours of him dying of Mad Cow so you can imagine how well that was going already.  I regret that.  My timing sucked.  We survived so far, but coming out then and WRONGLY was really stupid on my part.  I could have waited seven days.  I could have waited, and paid-- nothing.  Cindy, I don't need you coming down on me for my long past actions by the way.  I know my mistakes, and I have my regrets that I live with.

I maintain, the wrong lesson is at high risk of being learned by Gemma_D here because of the words of a moderator and some general members.  Anger & name calling, was not the right response.  The perspective of:

With that said, I can understand the feelings of shock and horror that some have had to the original post but I'm absolutely disgusted that anyone would respond in such a harsh and demeaning manner (especially without knowing a LOT more of the story) to someone who is obviously distressed by their own acts of blindly floundering through this and making mistakes that are most likely a result of her coming to her own breaking point without any or enough preparation.

strikes me as a more appropriate place to base a reply from.

[Anatta]

Well I came out fully to my wife yesterday, she's known about this as long as I have (8 months).

I told her first while she was pregnant because I was troubled but didn't think it would go anywhere, then it came up again 2 weeks before our son was born and again when he was about 6 weeks old. I keep trying to bury it but it hasn't worked. I know my timing is awful but each time it felt like I couldn't cope.

Before our son was born it seemed we may have been able to make it work, now she doesn't want to know. Here's the highlights of our talk:

I'm selfish
I don't love her and our son enough to stop this, if it was her just looking at his face would be enough.
My son will be beaten up every day at school because we live in an intolerant place.
I'll lose my job
She'll lose all her family and friends
She'll have to be a single mam in a council house
Our dogs will have to go in a shelter
She wishes our son wasn't born
She feels like taking him and driving off a cliff
I've dragged this on to try and manipulate her
I'm doing this as a subconscious attempt to get back at my mother who has been very difficult during our 10 year relationship (married for 3)
I can't promise I won't decide to leave her for a man

She never once mentioned how I feel or cope.. But I'm selfish.

Now after all that I've said I'll go to a therapist but she doesn't think she can trust me. She basically expects me to go to a therapist so I can find a way to get back to normal.

I don't know what to do, I desperately want to make this work, and if we have to split I would hope to be friends, I feel like the worst person in the world.

Am I being horrible here, brutal honesty please!

Kia Ora Gemma,

Simple answer "NO"  It's done now ! No more worrying over 'spilt milk', you can't pour it back...All you can do is clean it up as best as you can...

BTW " Let those 'without' sin cast the first stone!"

Metta Zenda

[Gemma_D]

Thank you for the supportive comments everyone. I'd like to clear a few things up.

My initial post was rushed and I wasn't in a good place while it was written. There are a lot of points that were glossed over that made both of us look worse.

I initially 'came out' in a moment of confusion, attempting to be open and communicative. I had just started having confusing feelings and thought it best to talk it through, I thought they would just pass. Obviously that failed. I never married or had a child to 'fix me' as I didn't know there was anything to fix.

The second time, I had a bit of a breakdown while in the bath, pulled myself together enough to get out. My wife noticed something was wrong and asked me what, I said it was nothing (I'm a lousy liar) and she asked over and over, obviously worried. This continued until the next morning when  I gave up trying to convince her and spat it out. It was hard afterwards but we reached an acceptance and she was super supportive, as long as it was kept behind closed doors.

When our son was born it felt like a taboo again, and I purged. We aren't great communicators as we're always worried about upsetting each other so I bottled things up rather than talking. Eventually it got too much and we had a 'coming out' similar to the previous one.

Since then it's been hanging over us, and I've agonised over the hurt I've caused her and would cause in future to her and our son. If it wasn't for them this would have been an easy decision but I can't bring myself to hurt them like that. We have had the odd fight where we almost split and I wanted to give up and just leave and start transitioning but always chose to stay and fight for us. I have thought about this every day for 8 months, never managing to accept or completely reject it, driving myself mad and becoming distant from my family, which was unfair.

I have been selfish in that I wanted to do what I thought I needed to, and try to keep our family together. I naively thought that with enough time we could make it work.

I didn't want to do anything before Christmas, but thought that the break before I go back to work after would give us a good block of time to talk, knowing it would be rough but that we should have time to try and talk it out. I couldn't bring myself to do it though, but I was so on edge we had another 'dragging out' session.

This is stupid of me and I know it.

Her saying about killing herself and our son was idle talk said in despair, she would never. Ever.

I promised I wouldn't leave her for anyone, she felt I couldn't make that promise. That obviously wasn't clear in what I wrote earlier.

I understood all of her worries, I just didn't necessarily agree with them all, but they are her worries and so they matter to me. Some of them I definitely did share.

We have been talking now and are in a good place, it's early days but I genuinely believe we can find a balance that we are both happy with. This is *not* me burying everything. It's also not a transition.

Once again, I just want to say I was in a terrible place when I posted, and I rushed it. I was hurting and yes I was being incredibly selfish. I'm not proud of it. If nothing else hopefully this can show people what not to do.

I will probably check in on this thread because I care more than I should about what people think of me. I don't think I'll be posting again though. I hopefully won't need to.

Wish us luck?