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Came out to wife, couldn't have gone much worse.

Started by Gemma_D, December 30, 2012, 03:11:11 AM

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Devlyn

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Misato

I wish you mega good luck!

You should have been given the opportunity to explain yourself, not vilified right out of the gate.  Those of us further along in the process especially should know better than to do that.

I think your path is familiar.  That's probably why this is all bugging me so much.  Maybe you don't need to transition, maybe you're some place else on the gender spectrum than I, but from my experience and that I've gleaned from others I feel compelled to implore you to recognize there's probably something real inside you here that needs to be dealt with professionally.

Again, mega good luck.  To you and all yours.
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spring0721

Gemma, as many have said this was poor timing on your part.  Does anyone expect you to live a lie? NO ...you can't just ultimately bury this part of you within or you'll continue to have break downs.but, I would suggest waiting..I remember for me that(after having a baby) was a HUGELY emotional time for me and then probably for at least 3 or 4 months after my son was born.  Your wife, while I'm sure you do love her, needs you to love her more than you love your self right now.  I'm not saying don't transition, I personally think it would be in the best interest of your wife & son to put this off for 6 months.  Give her time to recover from giving birth, post partum is a very REAL thing and this coming out of yours may just add to her emotional turmoil.  She's worried about you 'leaving her' because many women after giving birth have very low self esteem and feel a lot of dysphoria of their own.  There's a time to put yourself first, but this isn't it.  I know it's hard to wait, but your time will come.  You really need to focus on just getting through these next few months with infant sleep/eat schedules and her physical recovery from labor as well. I would like to say what Peky wrote earlier is very real, if your wife has even hinted about doing something drastic like hurting herself or the baby take action.  I know you say 'you know her and she never would' but I can tell you that after childbirth women sometimes have very irrational thoughts.  It's not their fault, it really is like they're a different person for a little while.  I am a very sane person, but after childbirth even I had some wacko thoughts...obviously I didn't act on them, but the things that go through a post pregnant womans mind can just really be off the wall, so please take it seriously. I wish you luck and will be hoping you, your wife and your precious son get through this!
People are people, treat everyone with the same respect and courtesy that you want to receive.
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josee

Gemma, I am glad you are still here. I completely understand where you were coming from and had a feeling it went something like that from your op. This is a support forum and to get slammed by a MOD right out of the gate without them knowing the full story, I don't know what to say about that (that won't get me banned).
 
I had the unfortunate timing of coming out fully to my wife at dinner on our 19th anniversary.
Like you I had been struggling with "it" for some time, she sensed something was wrong and asked me about it.

Were we supposed to lie and cover up for a while longer?
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Beth Andrea

Best wishes for you and your family...*hugs*

But, keep your account here...sounds like you may want to talk to someone about trans stuff, whether or not you go further in your journey. Please keep us in mind if you get to a difficult "place."

:)
...I think for most of us it is a futile effort to try and put this genie back in the bottle once she has tasted freedom...

--read in a Tessa James post 1/16/2017
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Kevin Peña

#45
A few points:

1. Timing could've been a lot better (I think we've established that).
2. By dictionary definition, transition is selfish. We're doing something to make ourselves feel better. That's selfish. Not to say it's bad, but it's selfish. So's telling someone not to transition. They're both selfish. I'm just being realistic.
3. Don't expect your wife to stay with you. She didn't sign into a marriage with a woman. Not to say it's impossible for her to stay, but she most likely won't.
4. Post partum depression is real. I would keep an eye on your wife in case she tries anything funny.
5. I'd seek counseling for both of you, although I think that you have different issues to work out.

Good luck. Sounds like you need it.
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MellowMoxxi

Quote from: JessicaH on December 30, 2012, 04:15:35 PM
I think we have all done things that we later realized could have been handled in a better way.  None of us asked for this F**ked up condition and we all deal with it differently depending on our education, social circles, intelligence and life experiences. Lots of trans-people know something is wrong but they can't really put the pieces together because pieces of the puzzle are missing or hidden due to lack of knowledge or denial.

The unwitting trans-person then tries to navigate through life doing what family, friends and society expects them to do. They move forward with the expectation of things working out like they do for most people but they don't realize that this alter ego of a person ,that has been created for self protection and meeting societies expectations, has a terminal condition. 

For some, the condition is  apparant as soon as they can grab a barbie and point to the "princess dress" and then others can't manage to keep up with the gender expectations and constraints and give up even trying while still a teen. Others make it further and try harder to be normal by following societal cues and expectations but at some point the "condition" intensifies. The condition has a "break-point and we have as about much choice in where that break-point is than if we had a cancerous tumor growing in our body. For some, that break-point comes with very bad timing for us and or others, or it may come after our wife leaves us (in one way or another) and some of us manage to hold out and just die before it gets us.

If you die of cancer while you have small children, does that make you a selfish person?  I don't think so. The biggest choice many of us have in all of this is how do we manage this condition between the point of where we get all the pieces together and come to the full realization of who and what we are and the the breaking point/ terminal point.  I have studied this condition for the last 2 years with an intensity that I have NEVER put into studying ANYTHING. It has been an interesting two years to say the least and I have thought about putting a gun to my head "thousands of times during that period. I've prayed to god to change me one way or another and I've cursed him for my very existence and asked him to please just end my cowardly life.

Sometime during that period, I silently said to myself "I'm a transsexual". I couldn't even say it out loud and I'm a very strong person mentally and physical (not so much physically now) and I never backed down from a fight or challenge. I have climbed mountain peeks, jumped out of planes, drug machine guns and people through miles of forest, deserts and wilderness and pushed myself way past the point that many people break. But..... I wasn't strong enough to fight this though. Over the next few days I was able to actually say it out loud without stuttering and then a few days later I could look in the mirror and say it.  What does all that mean? It means that if some of the smartest, strong-spirited, educated people in the world with the the most to loose can't overcome this, how can anyone else?

For me, I know my terminal point is at least a couple of years out. That means that if I do nothing and continue as "him" and pretend everything is fine, I will be a very angry, bitter shell of a person that will either put a bullet in my head to everyone's relief,  have a complete breakdown and loose the capacity to support myself or anyone else or transition without any preparations such as HRT, therapy, hair removal or anything else which will be MAGNITUDES harder for me and everyone else than if I take this window of opportunity (that you may call a "Choice") to prepare for the inevitable conclusion.

With that said, I can understand the feelings of shock and horror that some have had to the original post but I'm absolutely disgusted that anyone would respond in such a harsh and demeaning manner (especially without knowing a LOT more of the story) to someone who is obviously distressed by their own acts of blindly floundering through this and making mistakes that are most likely a result of her coming to her own breaking point without any or enough preparation.  It's a really heartbreaking post and stories like this are the biggest reason that transsexualism needs to be demystified and destigmafied so that people don't have to go through such a personal hell to even look in the mirror and say "I'm a transsexual" and get the help they need before hurting others or becoming a severely broken and damaged person that is the fate of so many trans-people.

Gemma, please read this article which may give you some more understanding and acceptance of yourself and it may be something helpful for you to share with others in you life.  I found it to be quite an eye opener even after I read countless other things. 

14 Stages of Transsexualism
http://web.uvic.ca/~ahdevor/14StagesBLOCK.pdf

That is such a great explanation Jessica. Looking forward to reading that paper after taking a little mental break needed from reading this thread.

@Gemma_D - Good luck to you and your family.
each day stepping through :-X :) :D >:( :( ??? :-\ :'( :embarrassed: | maybe one day truly :D

I think I'm about to go for it. I did it.
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Jamie D

Gemma - I understand your situation.  I guess I was lucky, in a way.  My dysphoria was not so great as to completely consume me.  At the time though, I thought they were sexual orientation issues - I had little or no concept of gender issues.  I married and fathered children, and lived in that role for decades. My eldest is now 26; my youngest 19.

I could deal with my undiagnosed gender issues during that time with some coping behaviors, and not a small amount of denial.  But here's the thing ... I did not not flee from my responsibilities.  We have several members here to have transitioned with small children in the home.  It complicates things, certainly.  It may break up your relationship, depending on how you wife reacts.  But it may not.

I would urge you to have your wife join the SO group here, or seek out some counseling.  I urge you to get/continue counseling as well.  Best of luck to you.

EDIT:  Let me also remind the commentors in this topic, and those who have reported posts, the OP (Gemma) asked for "brutal honesty."  You should not complain when it is given.
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Shawn Sunshine

I am not sure if transitioning is selfish in of itself, I have been told here by a few mods and staff that it is not selfish to be an authentic you. I am sorry things have worked out this way so far for you Gemma.
Shawn Sunshine Strickland The Strickalator

#SupergirlsForJustice
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Kevin Peña

Quote from: Pleasingly Plump Jamie D on December 30, 2012, 07:36:17 PM
EDIT:  Let me also remind the commentors in this topic, and those who have reported posts, the OP (Gemma) asked for "brutal honesty."  You should not complain when it is given.

Well, there's a difference between brutal honesty ("you're wrong, no if's, and's, or but's about it) and being insulting//callous//inappropriate. Just my two cents.

Quote from: Shawn Sunshine on December 30, 2012, 08:07:28 PM
I am not sure if transitioning is selfish in of itself

*Runs of to start new thread to discuss an interesting point*
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Misato

Quote from: DianaP on December 30, 2012, 08:12:33 PM
Well, there's a difference between brutal honesty ("you're wrong, no if's, and's, or but's about it) and being insulting//callous//inappropriate. Just my two cents.

* Misato33 does a matching 2 cent dontion.
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Ms. OBrien CVT

Take care, Gemma.  For both you and the family.

  
It does not take courage or bravery to change your gender.  It takes fear of living one more day in the wrong one.~me
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Jamie D

Quote from: DianaP on December 30, 2012, 08:12:33 PM
Well, there's a difference between brutal honesty ("you're wrong, no if's, and's, or but's about it) and being insulting//callous//inappropriate. Just my two cents.

*Runs of to start new thread to discuss an interesting point*

Well, Diana, Cindy's post was brutally frank anf honest.  I think that is exactly what the OP asked for.  And a number of other posters agreed with Cindy, though it was seeming out of character for her.

Sometimes we all need a pat on the back; other times we need a kick in the rear.  The kicks hurt more, I can tell you from experience.
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opheliaxen

Living your life as you isn't selfish.  It is baseline humanity.  As for your wife.  You two should go to couples therapy and have a professional calm things down a few notches.  Transitioning is nowhere near as exciting as she thinks it is.  Sure at first it will be different but eventually it all normalizes.

Also why does she think your dogs will get taken away?  That's a weird one.
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Annah

Quote from: Cindy James on December 30, 2012, 04:28:49 AM
I'm sorry.
I have to revisit this thread.
*I edited this because Cindy edited her original post*

Cindy James
Global Moderator

I was thinking similar things when i first read this original post.

Telling her when she first got pregnant, then again shortly after your son's birth....that's really really really poor timing.

I have to agree with your wife's thoughts on this one.

However, everyone pretty much made that clear and i don't want to continue to beat a dead horse with a stick.

But i do want to say some things:

Some feel that it's best to come out of the closet as it were. While I do agree with this statement, I also agree with the mentality than when someone does come out of the closet one needs to use tact, courtesy, planning and sympathy. Like telling one's wife on their wedding anniversary or telling their wife after they give birth is just poor judgement. That doesn't mean you shouldn't be true to yourself..but that type of action can be construed as very selfish...in a bad way.

For me...and this is simply my own personal walk and in no way a measuring rod of morality; but when I first had sex with my wife on my wedding night I realized it was a brutal mistake. I married her for religious pressure and other reasons...and yes I did love her. But when we made love I realized our love was not as lovers at all.

At the same time, I realized that the oath of marriage was an oath I took seriously. I knew I was a girl before I took the oath of marriage ...it is along the lines of "I made my bed now I must sleep in it."

We had children and I had every intention remaining a man. For me it was for the sake of my family. This was my choice.

Then my wife's bi polar and schizophrenia grew stronger and in her religious beliefs she thought God would heal her. God didn't. I came home one day and they were gone.

She left. The oath was broken by her and I transitioned.

As I said, this is my own personal journey and mine alone.

With that said, I would never be able to understand how someone would have this conversation with a woman who was pregnant...and then shortly after giving birth.

If you thought this strongly...why did you have a baby? Or why did you tell her when you did? It doesn't make any sense to me.

I know people have given Cindy a lot of flack for her outburst but she was honest. If i was your wife I probably would not have called you an ->-bleeped-<-....i probably would have said and done much, much worse.

Nevertheless, I do wish you well and I pray that your wife can be comforted in this
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Cindy

No matter  my personal opinion I was wrong in reacting the way I did.

I apologise for allowing my anger to overwhelm me.

I control it but sometimes it flares.

I aplogise
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Dahlia

Quote from: EmmaMcAllister on December 30, 2012, 03:06:15 PM
Should you wait until your child is a toddler? A teenager? An adult?

Just come out BEFORE marrying an unsuspecting wife AND conceiving children with her.

Leave  your future wife a choice.
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HthrRsln

Dear Gemma,

My heart just breaks for you, your wife, and the new baby. I think most of us knows there are times when we reach a breaking point with regard to our dysphoria, a point that takes us beyond our ability to choose rationally, to select a better timing for hard decisions, and some "unspeakable" things, once spoken, cannot ever really be taken back.

My thoughts as you described this were of my own journey. For better or worse, I first wanted to transition in my mid twenties before I met my wife, but that was so many years ago there was no internet and I didn't know where to turn for information. Completely unaware of any sort of FFS capability, or much understanding even of what HRT could accomplish, I resigned myself that transition was not possible for me, that I could never pass, and I tried mightily to repress my feelings. Desperately lonely, and completely broken hearted, I found another needy person and we constructed a "love" on this unsure footing. Soon after we were married I discovered that I could not repress my feelings, and came out to my wife. She was compassionate, and tried to be understanding, but in the end, she could not accept this from me and I somehow went back into the closet to try to save the marriage (I am not particularly recommending this, but it is what I did). I continued to cross dress frequently and fantasize almost constantly, but I did my very best to hide my feelings for thirty years. Finally with two grown children in their twenties, I reached a breaking point where I was about to walk in front of a commuter train, but fortunately found the courage to call local gender therapists till I got someone on the phone, literally sitting in my car less than a hundred yards from the train tracks. I finally decided I could either write my family a transition letter or a suicide note. I have now come out to my wife and one of my children. My wife moved out but we are still friends. My son loves and accepts me for who I am.

I totally understand what could drive you to take ill-considered actions. We do not choose the time and place that these things happen in our lives. We do the best we can to play the hand we are dealt.

You did not choose to be trans any more than your wife chose to marry a trans person, or your baby chose even to be born, but here you are, the three of you in the crux of this terrible / wonderful thing we call life. I dare say this is going to require the greatest depths of love, devotion, compassion, and understanding from both you and your wife. I suspect both you and your wife recognize that your actions must be considered in terms of how best to care for your helpless innocent child that is depending on you, and to preserve as much as possible of the relationship which conceived him. Professionals may prove extremely valuable as you try to sort this out, but in the end it is likely to require greater depths of character from both of you than any other experience either of you have ever lived.

Cling hard to every joy you find that they may sustain you through the difficult times, which will surely come. Love your wife as completely as you can. The hormonal storm that ravages a new mother's body through pregnancy and childbirth is difficult to believe, she will need your love and support, just as you will need her's to see you through dysphoria. No one has more at stake than the two of you. I am sure every member of this board wishes you, all three, every blessing and success that is possible. I pray that your child will grow up confident of the love of his parents.

Sincerely,

- Heather
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HelenW

I read once that the selfishness of transitioning is the same as the selfishness of eating - we help ourselves to survive by doing it.  I agree.  I think being selfish when you have a viable choice to do otherwise is a problem but when all the options are bad then it's hardly selfish to choose the one that adds to physical, mental and emotional survival.

Don't let other people charge you with being selfish when the consequences of acquiescing to their wishes causes you serious harm.
FKA: Emelye

Pronouns: she/her

My rarely updated blog: http://emelyes-kitchen.blogspot.com

Southwestern New York trans support: http://www.southerntiertrans.org/
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Sarah Louise

I made the commitment not to transition until the kids were through college.

I did tell my wife about myself before we married, she accepted things then, over the years she supported me, then later when I actually wanted to transition she changed her mind and was not as supportive.

But I was the one who decided to marry her, to have kids, etc. (there are so many different reasons we do things, some good reasons, some Bad reasons), I decided to wait until the kids were grown, I have transitioned now, luckily (I guess) my wife and I came to an understanding and are still together.
Nameless here for evermore!;  Merely this, and nothing more;
Tis the wind and nothing more!;  Quoth the Raven, "Nevermore!!"
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