Salem College transgender student wants to stay on all-female campus as man

[Elspeth]

I I think this guy completely didnt think of what he was doing if he was still hoping to be part of the womens only world stuff.

Forgive me, but considering the article contains no real or clear info about this guy's situation, we really don't know anything about why he chose Salem College, or just how much he has thought about this. From one of the comments from a student who seems to know him in person, I suspect he has thought about this far more than some of us are assuming.

I know for myself that overthinking the social consequences are one of the reasons I've taken so long and done so much damage to myself by delaying transition. It would be unfair of me to judge what someone else has chosen, especially based on a badly written and fairly obviously distorted story, one that gets even more distorted, the further it gets condensed down from the original, largely second- or third-hand account.

[Jayr]

My opinion;
If you're a man, you shouldn't be allowed in an all women college or any place that's for women only for that matter. The end.
Doesn't matter how traumatic transition is or what your financial situation is. He should have thought of that before hand.
And I find it extremely disrespectful for the ladies attending that school.

[kelly_aus]

If he identifies as a man, he is one - and therefore should not be attending a women's college.

The question of where he is in his transition is immaterial.

[Elspeth]

My opinion;
If you're a man, you shouldn't be allowed in an all women college or any place that's for women only for that matter. The end.
Doesn't matter how traumatic transition is or what your financial situation is. He should have thought of that before hand.
And I find it extremely disrespectful for the ladies attending that school.

You're welcome to your opinion, but if you would read the NYT article that was linked in this thread, or check out the dialogue that's going on at some of these women's colleges, you will find that not everyone there shares your viewpoint. Personally, I would have avoided them myself, and my trans son has never expressed an interest in a women's college, but having read about the ongoing dialogues at some of them, I am coming to realize that radfem absolutist positions are not actually much supported at some of these schools, and that Salem College is one of those that is not taking a cut-and-dried essentialist viewpoint on this.

I'm going to add a second link to the NYT article, for ease of reference, and since it got kind of lost back on page one.

[Jayr]

I'm sorry but I don't have time to waste reading all that.

Men shouldn't be in an all-women's college. Common sense.

I'm gonna leave it at that.

If he identifies as a man, he is one - and therefore should not be attending a women's college.

The question of where he is in his transition is immaterial.

+1

[suzifrommd]

Men shouldn't be in an all-women's college. Common sense.

Isn't this similar to the argument we've been hearing from transphobes? "People with penises are men. Common sense. People with vaginas are women. Common sense."

Except common sense sometimes isn't true. Rather than making a blanket declaration wouldn't it be more compassionate to look at the particular circumstances, to look at the relative harm either way?

[cynthialee]

You're welcome to your opinion, but if you would read the NYT article that was linked in this thread, or check out the dialogue that's going on at some of these women's colleges, you will find that not everyone there shares your viewpoint. Personally, I would have avoided them myself, and my trans son has never expressed an interest in a women's college, but having read about the ongoing dialogues at some of them, I am coming to realize that radfem absolutist positions are not actually much supported at some of these schools, and that Salem College is one of those that is not taking a cut-and-dried essentialist viewpoint on this.

I'm going to add a second link to the NYT article, for ease of reference, and since it got kind of lost back on page one.

So we should change our opinions because some one we do not know disagrees with us?

A man should not be in a womens university.

[Elspeth]

A man should not be in a womens university.

Not even if the college or university welcomes him and supports him, in part because of his experience of coerced socialization as a woman?

[LilDevilOfPrada]

Not even if the college or university welcomes him and supports him, in part because of his experience of coerced socialization as a woman?

I dont see why he should be given a special treatment, no cis-man would be allowed to enter so why should he? And on that note I am done with the thread because hes a man he must accept it simple and done.

[Elspeth]

I dont see why he should be given a special treatment, no cis-man would be allowed to enter so why should he? And on that note I am done with the thread because hes a man he must accept it simple and done.

From what anyone can tell, he's not getting special treatment, he's being treated as an individual who was admitted to the school in accordance with its own policies. And the situation seems to be one that's being handled with sensitivity and respect to his privacy and fairly unique circumstances, at least where Salem College administration are concerned.

If the college itself is not asking him to leave, how is your opinion on this (or mine, for than matter) even relevant? It's too unclear to me based on one badly written story to even feel I have enough facts to form an opinion on what he should or shouldn't do, and really, the outcome is between him and the college, not the general blogosphere.

[aleon515]

Maybe some of you guys are post transition and so on. I think that would be hard on the other women. But we don't know this guy. So it is hard to judge the situation. What if you have a guy, very early transition (the idea that he had bottom surgery was bull-pucky), no T, maybe starting to dress, use male pronouns, in therapy. What do you think? This is not someone actually living as male in society. For all we know the guy might be genderqueer but more comfortable being seen by male. And perhaps a bit of a protected background, we don't know.

See a guy is a guy and a girl is a girl, well to me that's all very binary thinking. And the other kids are going to resent it. Actually the other kids do NOT. I don't like to read the comments but I did. The other kids are supportive. I think the *alumni* are the ones who have more problems, but alumni don't like *any* changes anyway. They normally get bummed out if you change mascots (say Indians to Jets or something).

BTW, I saw a youtube "movie". I think it was Transgeneration. Anyway there was a guy attending Smith. He was very early transition. Also Smith (like some of these schools) has a long history of lots of activism in various areas. So he actually fit in in some ways.
It seems like some schools even have a history of being supportive of this type of thing. Such a school might go more out of it's way than a regular college. So he might be seen as male more.


I don't know that *I* would be comfortable there, of course it's been a long time since I was 18, and thats' another thing, his age. Some 18s are a lot younger than others.
BTW, I think where he is in his transition is not irrelevant, it's almost everything.


--Jay

[Jamie D]

The problem with this transitioned student is not with attending the college.  They make it clear that men do attend classes there.

The problem is with the housing arrangements.   All of the dorms are female.  The rights of his potential roommates need to be considered too.  I recall (barely - it was so long ago!) that some semesters I commuted, some semesters I lived in campus housing, and some years I lived off campus.  If this transman lives off campus, there should be no issue.

[Simon]

The problem with this transitioned student is not with attending the college.  They make it clear that men do attend classes there.

Just to clarify (this story has been on my local news), at Salem College a man must be over 23 years of age AND attend classes in a separate building. I'm not sure but I think the classes they let men attend are also very limited to just a few courses.

[Jamie D]

Just to clarify (this story has been on my local news), at Salem College a man must be over 23 years of age AND attend classes in a separate building. I'm not sure but I think the classes they let men attend are also very limited to just a few courses.

Yes.  I believe Simon was referring to this paragraph:

Founded in 1772 by Moravians, Salem College is a four-year liberal-arts school for women. It has enrollment of 1,100 students, including men who are 23 and older who take undergraduate courses at the Fleer Center for Adult Education. However, only female students are allowed to live on campus, according to the school's website.

[Barbara Ella]

I feel it comes down to their admission policy.  I doubt if they have a cointinuation policy so to speak. this person did not violate any admission policy, and concomitant with admission is an implied contract that allows graduation based on academic performance, not gender.  The school is handling this properly, and not reacting as a black and white solution.  Right now, IMHO, this person probably is legally entitled to complete his studies.  Good for him.  Not everything must be absolute.

Barbara