Tomboys and girlyboys

[AlexD]

A very common theme amongst transgendered folk is how they were non-conforming as children -- FtMs were tomboys, MtFs were girly, etc., and how this was one of the first clues that they weren't like the other kids.

Trouble is, I wasn't a very tomboyish kid. I liked my dolls, I had a pink bedroom by choice, and I never played with the boys. For as long as I've been suspecting I was trans, this fact has troubled me: how can I be truly trans if I was just so darn cis as a child? But the other day, someone asked me a very interesting question. I was in a chatroom and discussing favourite video games as a kid, and I mentioned how one of my games was this silly Barbie fashion designer thing. His response? "lol, so were you, like... the opposite of a tomboy?"

...Yes. Yes I was! It has never occured to me to remember that not all tomboys grow up to be transmen, and not all girly boys grow up to be transwomen. I wasn't a cis girl -- I was just a sissy boy!

[Medusa]

It is not that simple

I was girly boy, wear cute things (until was beaten because of it) and want long polished nails, but I also cry when I was called a girl by foreign adults 
And I play with train models, love mechanical and electronic kit, but also like sewing and embroidery and want to make clothes for my cuddly toys

So what then 

[anya921]

I was not a Girly Girl.  I loved out door activities and playing legos. But I also liked hopscotch and play houses and shaped my eyebrows since 8th grade and always had long nails.  There are lot of likewise experiences shared here

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,133332.0.html

[milktea]

for my people the 80s is pretty much unisex. we all play mario bros, 5 stones, skipping rope, etc...in fact i didn't think there were any difference between the sexes until like...12...

[AlexD]

It is not that simple

I was girly boy, wear cute things (until was beaten because of it) and want long polished nails, but I also cry when I was called a girl by foreign adults 
And I play with train models, love mechanical and electronic kit, but also like sewing and embroidery and want to make clothes for my cuddly toys

So what then 

Hah, is anything trans ever simple?

I can certainly think of examples of boyish things I did as a kid, but so can every female-bodied person, trans or not. We all did a mix of both. I suppose the question for trans folk is less "how much did I conform to my desired gender's behaviour?" and more "how does this behaviour reflect who I am?"

[big kim]

Growing up in the 60s and 70s I was neither a girly boy or a tomboy.I did boy stuff like fishing and model making and riding my bike which all kids did.In my next to last year at senior school  in one of my many scrapes with the teachers the headmaster told me I was a Nancy boy,the next day the deputy headmaster told me I was a yob.They were both right!

[Adam (birkin)]

As I see it, gender roles have nothing to do with our sex. And how we feel about our sex. I wasn't overly "girly" or overly "boyish" as a kid, I just was. I'm trans because I'm uncomfortable with my body.

[Padma]

As far as gender-typical behaviour goes, I was neither, and I'm still neither (if we're going with the binary metaphor) - but I was always female, just not anatomically - a tomboy in a man's body. For me there's an obvious big difference between "We're you a girl?" and just "Did you like doing things other girls liked doing?"

[Anna]

It's part of the narrative but I wonder how much of it is just part of normal growing up.  I can think of lots of things that I can use to say to myself "I've always felt I should have been a girl" but I can also look at my life and just think "typical boy with a bit more curiosity than some". So much stuff can just be put down to gender sterotypes.  I prefer to strip away anything from these narratives that might be regarded a socially constructed gender stereotype and try to think what is going on in my head? Why is it happening?  The best I can think of is it feels like someone has taken mac parts and mixed them up with a PC motherboard & stuck it in a PC box. A casual observer might expect what they see to act like a PC but that isn't how the machine itself works. It's a pretty naff analogy but it seems to cover what I feel. The other one is a space probe that crashed a few years ago because it was receiving information in metric measurements but processing them in imperial.  THEN I consider the gender aspects and I think "Aha! I'm transgender."  For me it's the only explanation that links every action thought, feeling & incongruous perception. Of course the psychiatrist may disagree. I sort of hope he does & has some magic pill because if it's what I think then there is no way they can ever make me whole one way or the other. 

[AlexD]

I guess if anything you should feel lucky you were able to fit in as a child and not be made fun of for the things you like

Heh, I wasn't that lucky. I didn't fit in at all; the other kids of both genders thought I was a freak and tormented me relentlessly. :p

As far as gender-typical behaviour goes, I was neither, and I'm still neither (if we're going with the binary metaphor) - but I was always female, just not anatomically - a tomboy in a man's body. For me there's an obvious big difference between "We're you a girl?" and just "Did you like doing things other girls liked doing?"

This is where I have trouble -- sometimes I'm just not sure I can tell the difference. I understand that there is one, and that most normal trans folk feel it deeply, but... I guess I feel like my feelings of being male require external proof before I can believe they're real.

[Nero]

I played with whatever I was given. Luckily my parents didn't see gender in toys. I did play with so called more masculine stuff more often though. I think there are a lot of kids who don't have a clear preference. I mean, they're toys. Also, a more 'passive' personality of either gender will just go along with whatever their friends like.

It's all well and good to examine your past. I know therapists often require this. And sometimes it can be a good indicator of your identity from birth. But it can lead to thinking traps. I mean, how many of the most tomboyish girls ended up straight housewives, you know? If it were all about masculine/feminine behavior as a child, practically no one would be cis.

[AlexD]

I played with whatever I was given. Luckily my parents didn't see gender in toys. I did play with so called more masculine stuff more often though. I think there are a lot of kids who don't have a clear preference. I mean, they're toys. Also, a more 'passive' personality of either gender will just go along with whatever their friends like.

It's all well and good to examine your past. I know therapists often require this. And sometimes it can be a good indicator of your identity from birth. But it can lead to thinking traps. I mean, how many of the most tomboyish girls ended up straight housewives, you know? If it were all about masculine/feminine behavior as a child, practically no one would be cis.

Yeah. The whole point of this thread was an attempt to solidify the thought "if some tomboy girls grow up to be cis housewives, then I can be a sort-of girlish kid who grew up to be a man", but maybe I don't really believe it after all. It's obviously true, but... bah. There's always a but. I liked being a little girl. Now that I'm a "woman" I don't know why I hate being one so much.

[Kevin Peña]

Well, if anything, I am neither.

I use swords, longbows, throwing knives, and huge Spartan-esque shields. I also ride a bike on mountain trails and do strength-based exercise.

Then again, my favorite article of clothing is a dress, I love dramas like Desperate Housewives and Drop Dead Diva, I do yoga, I wax my legs, I have a stuffed animal collection, and I do lots of other girly things.

...hmm. 

[Nero]

I liked being a little girl.

Well now, that's a bit different. When did you first notice you didn't like it?

[AlexD]

Well now, that's a bit different. When did you first notice you didn't like it?

Yeah, it is a bit different, isn't it? Sometimes I can't tell if I'm just a cisgirl who wants to be special or not.

[Nero]

Well, whatever your gender turns out to be, it's good that you're here and examining it. Self-reflection is always good (says the guy who just revealed how much of a jerk he is in his blog  ).
May I ask what you enjoyed about being a little girl and what you don't like about being a woman now?

[AlexD]

Well, whatever your gender turns out to be, it's good that you're here and examining it. Self-reflection is always good (says the guy who just revealed how much of a jerk he is in his blog  ).
May I ask what you enjoyed about being a little girl and what you don't like about being a woman now?

Bah. I do too much self-reflection, if you ask me. I'm currently in therapy for depression learning how not to introspect on upsetting things so much.

I have a distinct childhood memory of thinking to myself that I was glad I was a girl, because girl's toys were nicer than boy's toys. I remember being pleased as puberty started changing my body into a woman's. But the novelty wore off quickly. I think what really pleased me was turning into an adult, because being a woman was distressing. I wasn't into the sort of things women were supposed to be into -- boys, prettifying myself, shopping, gossip, whatever. I couldn't relate to women. I hated periods so much that I became angry at my body and tried to cut one of my breasts off. I couldn't imagine sex without a penis.

I don't know if I even feel a "gender identity" anymore. Maybe I did as a child, but I don't feel female now. And if I'm honest, I don't feel male, either, but I know that I don't want to be female. All I see is my body and a set of behavioural rules, and I hate them both. If my only other option is a male body and male rules, then that's better than what I have now. Is that misogynistic? Perhaps it is. Perhaps I'd be better off dead than some freak that's neither cis or trans.

[Nero]

Well, you don't have to be either or. Maybe you're androgyne or genderqueer.

[AlexD]

Feh. Genderqueer only lives in the minds of the genderqueer. Everywhere else, the binary rules. I just want to fit in, somehow.

And I don't believe in "being yourself". I tried that for 25 years and it ended with me going into therapy because I was suicidal with self-loathing. I need to change if I ever want to be happy.

[~RoadToTrista~]

I didn't conform with my sex as a kid, but it doesn't seem like it has to do with anything, I never put a link to it. Maybe it does? Idk.