Quote from: Bexi on February 14, 2013, 07:19:43 AM
If I don't necessarily like something, or the way it goes about its business, or the people that propose to stand for its movement, or the way it tries to get its point across, that does not mean I negate its views; it doesn't mean I think that what they are doing is wrong. It doesn't mean I absolutely endorse the views that it is trying to fight.
Seriously, you're better than that. The view that not agreeing with something must mean you're against everything they stand for is bordering on schizophrenia, a "If you're not with me, you're against me" mentality.
eesh. danger zone.
ok. so here's the deal with the Not Agreeing With Feminists things.
when someone—diana in this case—says that she doesn't like feminists for the exact reason of "making people feel like bad guys", her statement is commutated to me, since i'm among them, at least in some form of anarcha-transfeminism. while this places me a hell of a ways from most capital-f Mainstream Feminists, you're running into your own problem in reverse. you find your julie burchills and your suzanne moores and decide that The Feminist Voice is those two women. of course, if they were *actually* feminists, they wouldn't be hemorrhaging that kind of disgusting rhetoric, but again, it's easy for the white and the straight and the cis among the catastrophically massive umbrella of feminisms to speak over trans women, to trample women of color, to ignore disability activists, to indulge in some casual heterosexism, all to further what they perceive to be The Greater Point. which is misguided, because intersections play into EVERYTHING, but, well, again, it's hard to expect a lot from people steeped in this kind of kyriarchy.
if we're going to distill feminism into a school of thought, so we can adequately appraise the core concept that binds all feminists together, it's freedom from patriarchy. whether that takes on the flag of revolutionary liberation or legislated equality or whatever, everyone who calls themself a feminist is lending their hand to support that one cause.
so when people make the claim of Not Liking Feminists, the mass noun of Feminists stands in for the movement of Feminism, and quite quickly you see where that leads you. it's hard to say that one doesn't like feminists but likes feminism, because what is a movement without those under its banner? what is a community without its members? an attack on feminists, as a plural, is an attack on feminism. now, take potshots at the cissexist douchelords of the uk press all you want because they deserve it! ridicule the transphobic self-styled attack dogs under the guise of claimants of feminism, who dare to call their retrograde positions "radical". go for it!
but don't go for feminists. feminists, feminism, and more specifically its delicate splinter transfeminism, is the only movement with even the slightest degree of regard for those oppressed under multiple axes. threaten feminism, and you threaten my right to exist as a transfeminist. big-f Feminism may be its own can of worms, but so long as transfeminists grow out of feminists, so long as transfeminists feed from the same wellspring of urtexts, the bell hookses and the judith butlers and even the simone de beauvoirs, there's still an affiliation, and there's still a common threat of the kyriarchy against both feminism and transfeminism.
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Life isn't in black and white. You must choose one or the other. Its a myriad of possibilities, and opinions. Of choices, and beliefs. Of all different types and extents. So to say if you don't believe in something as fully as others may do, does not make you endorse the polar opposite and the very attitudes that you struggle against day to day.
trust me, it makes me uneasy to defend Feminism because i know the harm a movement like that is capable of in the hands of those with the most privilege. after all, reproductive justice doesn't mean a whole lot if it's only being extended to wealthy cis women. but again, it's the radix from which so many other movements have come, and to topple Feminism with accusations of transphobia is simply to point out how screwed up society is that transphobia shows up EVERYWHERE.
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Breaking news - a lot of feminists don't like us either.
yeah, breaking news, people fighting one oppression forget that others exist a lot of the time. which doesn't mean we should leap into the arms of men's rights activists and see how THEY would treat trans women. i shudder to even think about it.
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In the UK, we had an understandable furore over the opinion of the writer Suzanne Moore, and a defense piece by her friend Julie Burchill, a self-styled militant-feminist.
In a national newspaper, a throwaway comment (about how ordinary women are expected to have "...the body of a brazilian transsexual") she wrote prompted accusations of trans-phobia, which in started a "twitter war" and an all out trans-phobic rant (some snippets by SM - "Transphobia is your term. I have issues with trans anything actually", SM - "I dont prioritise this ->-bleeped-<-ing lopping bits of your body over all else that is happening to women Intersectional enough for you?").
But fear not! Her friend, militant feminist Julie Burchill came to her defence and in turn spawned a vitriolic article about us "bed-wetters in bad wigs", that we "don't know the meaning of suffering" and that - after these provoked heated criticism -saying she has been "monstered by chicks with dicks" and similarly dismissive and offensive terms.
Now I apologize if anyone is offended by any of these terms - however the point remains that what some on the Left thinks about us is remarkably similar to what those on the Right think.
see above. these two are anecdotes, and however representative they may be of the leadership of Feminist communities, you'd do well to recognize that these are not the Defining Characteristics Of Feminism. they're opinions held by people who claim the word feminism.
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Its not just the white supremacist patriarchy that is dismissive and down-right hostile to the transgender community.
it's not just the white supremacist patriarchy, you're right. it's ESPECIALLY the white supremacist patriarchy. if you haven't already, check out the names and the faces on tdor. trans women of color overwhelm the list. tell me that these three aren't working in sick synchrony.
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They do, and I applaud them for it, but they don't necessarily do it for transgender women, but women in general. If the victim in person happens to be trans*, its often sheer coincidence.
Feminists - on the most part - do not go out of their way to recognize our right to exist. In fact, some even denigrate our perseverance to become women, since we give up that trump card every likes to hate on, male privilege, for female privilege.
yes, yes, the power structure of Feminist organizations is problematic. that's duly acknowledged, and i understand that critique. unfortunately, it does nothing to loosen the yoke to which all feminisms are tied to that point of origin. the environmental justice activists, the womanists, the reproductive justice activists, the anti-racists, the transfeminists, they all have common traditions. and to see them culled for the failures of Feminism seems patently absurd.
sort of like the idea of "female privilege". um, what? yikes. twisty from
ibtp would have some interesting things to say about that. that there's a good refresher of how subjugation of women happens in such a way that the idea of female privilege gets blown rather handily to shreds.
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Hell, even some normal women deny our right to be female because we were unlucky enough to be born in the wrong body and it was only through of loss of privilege that we can look through the window of - but never join in - female privilege.
""""normal"""" women?
eep.
bex, i gotta say, that's sorta an impasse. i dunno how you feel about yourself but i feel pretty normal.
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Ok, so not liking the card we've been dealt or the way the feminist movement, I assume you are a supporter of, gets victimized gets you angry? Hell, it gets me angry too, but the movement you seem so quick to defend is similarly dismissive of us, when in fact, we should be striving for a common goal.
i think anger is a pretty fitting and appropriate response to a lot of things that happen to women, cis or trans.
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For most feminists, we still do not belong with them. We are a side show. We are not deserving a place at their table. We are an aberration aligned to their movement only because of a shared antipathy.
all the more reason for strong transfeminist voices, wouldn't you say? taking potshots at Feminism won't do anything to improve the way trans women are treated therein. (taking potshots at Feminism is, however, *fun*, as long as there is a realization that it's in the service of transfeminism, not some retrograde oppression agnosticism that draws an equivalence to the racist ideas of "colorblindness"!)
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I am 'out' and whilst I don't carry a large placard with "Transperson here" on the streets, everyone who knows me knows I am trans. As you said, it is noting to hide, nothing to be embarrassed or ashamed about. I am me, and you know what, I enjoy being me.
But, as I said in an earlier reply, I don't want pat on the head, a "wow you're so brave" or people to genuflect infront of me and praise me for transitioning. I didn't transition for any of that.
By not choosing to do so, am I negating and ignoring what previous trans-people have done? The paths they pioneered by being 'out' in tougher, more prejudiced times? Of course not.
I am immensely grateful for what they have done. Without it, our community would be a much smaller, harder, cynical, ostracized place. But, am I deserving, or indeed warranted, the congratulations that should be offered to them for the sheer coincidence of being transgendered?
Don't be silly. I ask, neither expect that praise.
i guess what i'm objecting to is not deflection of praise, because that kind of praise is obnoxious and sort of offensive, like, here i am just putting through life and someone has to come tell me how brave i am, like, what, i didn't go to the moon without a space suit on or anything. i guess it's just due deference, just because trans people ain't ever gettin' an ounce of RESPECT. and respect doesn't have to be an overwrought tearjerker of a confession of how brave y'all are.
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Underneath it all, beneath the façade and the "out"-ness, the feminist movements, the privileges - I AM SELFISH. I didn't transition to become someone whom encourages others to accept who they are. I didn't transition with a desire to take part and support the feminist movement.
The only person I transitioned for is me.
Edited - for spelling
that's the ultimate point for most of us, i think! that we do it for ourselves. but i dunno, i feel like i at least have some responsibility for posterity's sake to make things better. part of my push for these things is for my OWN safety, but also for anyone else who happens to be going down the same path. it's a lonely world out there sometimes, y'know? for me as a dyke it's already pretty spare, but being trans really is the bizarre blue-raspberry vodka soaked maraschino cherry on top of an intricate, hazardous jenga puzzle brownie sundae. i wouldn't want to make someone build that dessert again without some directions, that's for sure. which is i guess why i'm here. to offer my recipe.
