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What's so bad about only wanting certain things?

Started by insideontheoutside, February 14, 2013, 02:40:18 PM

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insideontheoutside

There's been discussion surrounding this sort of thing on here but I can't recall a direct, specific thread about it. I'm talking about only wanting certain body/appearance changes.

Is it because it goes against the grain? If established treatment protocols have sort-of been set up, does someone wanting only certain things out of treatment throw a monkey wrench it in for anyone else? I thought the whole point of any treatment in trans* cases was to get the person to a place where they feel comfortable in their own skin and can face society like that and live as full and "normal" of a life as possible?

To me, there's also a dichotomy between what you can individually accept/cope with/feel good about/be comfortable with and what society can. And it's up to the individual to decide how important it is that society accept them like they accept themselves.

It seems to me that for most trans* people, that "being accepted by society as your actual gender" is paramount. If it isn't, then you're often just labeled as genderqueer or androgynous or something else. Honestly, I find it a bit unsettling how strict some viewpoints are on this and I wonder why?

Take the non-trans* person ... most people have at least one or more things they would like to change about themselves. Maybe it's something simple like they want to lose weight or gain more muscle. But there's also people who want things like breast or penis enlargement. At the end of the day, a lot of them want those sorts of things to feel more comfortable with themselves and to have other people in society see a certain thing. So why then, is it okay for a non-trans person to only want a bigger unit, but if that's all a trans* person wants that's no okay for many people?

I can admit that's one of the things I want. There's a few other things too. I could try hormones again (gel, not injections) in an attempt to gain some of those things that would make me more comfortable, but there's a lot of things I don't want (beyond health risks or otherwise "bad" side effects). Being even more hairy than I am would be a total bummer (especially if I don't plan on ever getting top surgery). Losing hair would seriously be a bummer that I've have trouble dealing with on multiple levels (considering I'm not transitioning). Sure, those are what most would consider vanity things but if they're things that would make me less comfortable, they become roadblocks. That and health issues are the major reasons why I have not tried any other form of hormone treatment since the last time I did. Furthermore, if I did, I would only try it for a short time and my levels would be monitored like a hawk the entire time. These things really seem to rub some people the wrong way ... but why? I'm the type of person that's not very keen on just "accepting what is, is" for some things. It's taken me years and a lot of trial and error to even come close to "accepting" issues I have with my body. The few things that have worked though make me feel amazing. It's like a weight just lifts off.

I usually cite certain reasons for not actually transitioning, but at my core, I feel, "why SHOULD I need to transition? I'm just me." My gender doesn't often come up in day to day life. Sure, other people who know me know me a certain way but I don't put on an act either. While I don't introduce myself with, "Hi I'm so'n'so oh and by the way I'm transsexual and don't have the standard issue female body" (that's part of my private life anyway), that doesn't also mean that I'm not just being myself around other people, regardless of how they choose to "see"me. I know my appearance makes some people wonder, but that's really something I don't mind. Plenty of people have an issue with not being seen specifically as one gender or the other. But I've pretty much lived my whole life like that.

The only things that have really changed for me in the past few years is the number of people I'm close to who I felt comfortable enough to tell. All of the people I have told have been very accepting, which is great. I try not to have regrets that I should have told more people in my life earlier on. It is what it is now and that is one thing I can accept. If I feel like I can confide that in someone and they can keep it to themselves, then I consider it.

Basically a lot of this is me thinking out loud. I've been dealing with a lot of dysphoria the last year and actually had one tiny breakthrough this week on feeling better about it. But I'm still considering options and alternate ways to bring about more acceptance of my body and no matter how I slice it, I still only want certain things. Still don't think that makes me any less male.

Feel free to add your thoughts ...
"Let's conspire to ignite all the souls that would die just to feel alive."
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spacerace

I think there's nothing wrong at all with wanting certain things, as long you as you realize it's a package deal, and you can't pick and choose.

The problem comes when people don't realize this and think they can control what happens, and then they get disappointed when things don't work out that way. Then, they end up worse off  because they've transitioned and are still completely unhappy.  It's heart breaking to hear trans guys depressed with themselves when T didn't work out exactly the way they wanted.

You can't pick and choose the order or manifestation of what T brings, but you can certainly say, "Well, I want these things".  Just realize there is a good chance it's not going to work out how you want it.  Of course, you can say, "I will stop immediately when I see something I don't want", which is fine as long as you realize that might need to happen, and it would mean you don't get the changes you do want.

Gel seems to bring changes slower, so if you are trying to take it slow and see what happens, it could be a good option as you've decided. But still, you can't plan any part of this at all, unfortunately.

There are of course people who will say that if you don't want all the changes you're not trans enough, or some variation there of.  That's their opinion, but everyone picks their own path and no one should judge another person's choices. You seem to know what you want for yourself, so good luck with whatever you decide to do.
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Simon

I remember you mentioning this a bit before in the "Unrealistic Expectations of T" thread. Do know that thread had nothing to do with someone in your situation. You KNOW what can happen and since there are some aspects you don't want you're having to weigh the pros vs cons. That thread was started out geared towards those who blindly jump into HRT without really thinking things through.

The trans community is very visual based. I think even more so than the cis world. We get so used to critiquing ourselves and even helping others critique themselves. Most guys (even those who say they don't identify binary) do just want to blend into society. Testosterone is the answer to that dilemma for most.

There is nothing wrong with only wanting certain aspects that T can bring. Then again, you know that the wanted aspects aren't guaranteed and the unwanted ones aren't certain to stay away. It's all in what you want and what you could live with (or take the time and expense to revert) if unwanted changes do occur.

I think the backlash comes when people just do it without thinking of consequences and then being unsatisfied that a year on injections they look like a cis male. It's just kinda "what did you expect"? To be honest, I couldn't care less who does or doesn't get on hormones. Doesn't effect me either way. As long as the person has done their research and know what to expect.

One thing I did notice that you mentioned, hair. I'm almost two months in and the numero uno thing that has happened has been hair. There is a lot more and it's thicker. Even if you have a low range hair can still happen. I grew a full beard with levels in the low 300 range (but at that level my voice never fully dropped). Just a heads up.
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insideontheoutside

I see what you're both saying about people who rush into things or realizing it's a "package deal" vs truly thinking you can pick and choose. I do of course realize the "risks" involved and what can potentially happen along with anything I'd like to happen. More than likely it just will never work out and I'll be stuck and back to basically where I am now trying to find some way to accept things I can't seem to change. Which is a bit depressing.
"Let's conspire to ignite all the souls that would die just to feel alive."
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Mosaic dude

Quote"why SHOULD I need to transition? I'm just me." My gender doesn't often come up in day to day life. Sure, other people who know me know me a certain way but I don't put on an act either.

I totally identify with this.  I prefer to live my life as who I am.  I'm still trying to figure out what that means and I guess I always will be.  Sure, people make assumptions, and I don't hold that against them because they can only go on what they see.  My view on transitioning is that I don't want to climb out of one box only to wind up stuck in another, if that makes sense.  If I let that happen to me then it's pointless for me to transition.  For me the most important thing is being happy and healthy.
Living in interesting times since 1985.
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insideontheoutside

Quote from: Mosaic dude on February 14, 2013, 04:11:19 PM
I totally identify with this.  I prefer to live my life as who I am.  I'm still trying to figure out what that means and I guess I always will be.  Sure, people make assumptions, and I don't hold that against them because they can only go on what they see.  My view on transitioning is that I don't want to climb out of one box only to wind up stuck in another, if that makes sense.  If I let that happen to me then it's pointless for me to transition.  For me the most important thing is being happy and healthy.

Yeah makes total sense to me (the box example). I'm trying for being happy and healthy as well.
"Let's conspire to ignite all the souls that would die just to feel alive."
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Kevin Peña

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spacerace

Quote from: insideontheoutside on February 14, 2013, 04:10:09 PM
I see what you're both saying about people who rush into things or realizing it's a "package deal" vs truly thinking you can pick and choose. I do of course realize the "risks" involved and what can potentially happen along with anything I'd like to happen. More than likely it just will never work out and I'll be stuck and back to basically where I am now trying to find some way to accept things I can't seem to change. Which is a bit depressing.

I wasn't trying to get you down about starting hormones. I think it is great you've possibly decided to make a change that could end up making you happier.

Quote from: Mosaic dude on February 14, 2013, 04:11:19 PM
My view on transitioning is that I don't want to climb out of one box only to wind up stuck in another, if that makes sense.  If I let that happen to me then it's pointless for me to transition.  For me the most important thing is being happy and healthy.

I feel this way as well. Still, if there's two boxes, I'll certainly pick the male one -  especially because I want absolutely nothing to do with being female. 
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DriftingCrow

I see nothing wrong with wanting only certain effects. It's just like Simon said, people need to do their research beforehand and also realize no matter what you're not going to be happy about something on your body.

Kind of random, but if you don't want certain hair, could you get laser hair removal? I have no idea how much that would cost (I'd imagine for most people the cost would factor into whether or not to continue hormones or not), maybe some of the ladies could answer that.
ਮਨਿ ਜੀਤੈ ਜਗੁ ਜੀਤੁ
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Kevin Peña

Quote from: LearnedHand on February 14, 2013, 05:35:28 PM
Kind of random, but if you don't want certain hair, could you get laser hair removal? I have no idea how much that would cost (I'd imagine for most people the cost would factor into whether or not to continue hormones or not), maybe some of the ladies could answer that.

Laser works better on those with light skin. I don't know its cost, but electrolysis is charged by the hour. You'd be lucky to get $50/hour.   :(
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peky

Nothing wrong about wanting certain things....

As far as what you need to get over your GID, it is my opinion that is not much a matter of what you want but what you need....and to agravet my conservative friends, I will even suggest that it is you G-d given rigth, and that it is the resposability of the goverment to provide you with what you need to put an stop to the suffering brough up by GID
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aleon515

From an informal poll on susan's somewhere. Quite a number of people who were androgynes were considering hormones. Of course, I think some of us were NOT androgyne, but there are quite a few who do take hormones and even get surgery. I heard of butch lesbian taking T and just takes enough to effect how she feels and not too much in changes.

I think the thing someone here told me awhile ago, there really is not such a thing as low T only slow T. You will eventually change however much you could change though theoretically you could manage this by stopping and starting. I realize this might be controversial. But if you do weight bearing exercise and take enough calcium, well you need that for bone health as you aren't going to get enough hormones.


--Jay
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insideontheoutside

On the laser hair removal thing that is pricy and it's not like you just go in a couple times and you've got no hair. Usually many sessions are required before it's a permanent thing.

I just have to weigh bad side effects vs good side effects. Honestly I'd change so little about my body ... Basically just more size downstairs, slightly deeper voice, a little bit more facial hair. If I was open to surgery I'd loose the moobs too. Technically 3 of the 4 could potentially happen with a short run of T. I heard effects can be a bit different if you go on T and you're older as well but I don't know if that's an actual thing or just an observation from older guys who have just started.
"Let's conspire to ignite all the souls that would die just to feel alive."
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insideontheoutside

Quote from: girl you look fierce on February 15, 2013, 01:08:03 AM
Of course there's nothing wrong with trying to choose the changes you want... it's just, nobody's forcing you to transition....

Either way, they make synthetic T and medicate it for people who want T effects, and they make transition laws and protections for people who want to change to a male gender role and all that implies.  You don't have to say you're a man just because you want bigger genitals, and maybe another question is why do you need to be a man just because you want one or two changes.

I think sometimes people feel like you're not taking the label of "male" seriously if you don't really want a common experience that men share.

There's male and then there's male to all of society too. I've always been male. I can't actually change that because it's all I've known. That's just how my brain is wired. I don't have a very common experience that a lot of other men can share though.
"Let's conspire to ignite all the souls that would die just to feel alive."
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spacerace

Quote from: insideontheoutside on February 15, 2013, 01:19:21 AM
There's male and then there's male to all of society too. I've always been male. I can't actually change that because it's all I've known. That's just how my brain is wired. I don't have a very common experience that a lot of other men can share though.

I think it is really good that people share their unique experiences with how they feel about their gender and their own goals about transition, like what you have done in this thread. There is a certainly a dominant trans narrative and course of action that gets perpetuated, when in reality each one of us has our own feelings and situations. When someone shares their own story, it can maybe make people feel more comfortable about their own narratives.
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aleon515

One thing I heard before I knew myself to be ftm was that there are 3 early and non-reversible changes (body hair increase-- not facial that's later; genital growth; and voice change). If you are good with those, you are basically ok to do this, even if you are non-binary. (Other things being equal of course.)

--Jay
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Nero

Quote from: aleon515 on February 15, 2013, 01:45:56 PM
One thing I heard before I knew myself to be ftm was that there are 3 early and non-reversible changes (body hair increase-- not facial that's later; genital growth; and voice change). If you are good with those, you are basically ok to do this, even if you are non-binary. (Other things being equal of course.)

--Jay

True. However, some people get facial hair growth early. I can't recall exactly the time frame, but it wasn't long before my beard filled out. I would have needed electrolysis early on if I changed my mind.

On a related note:
I don't think genital growth or body hair would prevent living as a woman. But if you end up with a bass voice, it would be difficult. My voice didn't get too deep. I could maybe still live as a woman with it if I could undo everything else. But I've heard guys for whom this isn't the case.

Honestly, we ftms/transmasculine folk don't get the HRT 'trial period' mtfs do. And that sucks. Because it's supposed to be a good evaluation tool.
Nero was the Forum Admin here at Susan's Place for several years up to the time of his death.
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aleon515

Trial period, well most of us are started on low dose. I will be.

--Jay
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Nero

Quote from: aleon515 on February 15, 2013, 03:22:48 PM
Trial period, well most of us are started on low dose. I will be.

--Jay

I was too. Just saying. Probably you won't get extreme effects, but you never know. It's all down to genetics.
Nero was the Forum Admin here at Susan's Place for several years up to the time of his death.
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insideontheoutside

Quote from: spacerace on February 15, 2013, 07:49:37 AM
I think it is really good that people share their unique experiences with how they feel about their gender and their own goals about transition, like what you have done in this thread. There is a certainly a dominant trans narrative and course of action that gets perpetuated, when in reality each one of us has our own feelings and situations. When someone shares their own story, it can maybe make people feel more comfortable about their own narratives.

Thanks :)

Quote from: Not-so Fat Admin on February 15, 2013, 02:15:57 PM
On a related note:
I don't think genital growth or body hair would prevent living as a woman. But if you end up with a bass voice, it would be difficult. My voice didn't get too deep. I could maybe still live as a woman with it if I could undo everything else. But I've heard guys for whom this isn't the case.
I've already got genital growth probably comparable to a guy who's been on T for a number of years. But that's just how I am naturally. If it could bigger though that would be great (and I'm really not a size queen but if I just had a little more I think it would give me a total ego boost). My voice right now I've had some people say is "teenage male" to lower range of female.

Of course in my case being "misgendered" as a dude would be fine with me (and would make me secretly smile because it'd actually be correct, unbeknownst to most people). As long as my ID pics still looked like me I'd probably be fine in most situations. I already go out of my way to find unisex bathrooms when out and about, but I don't have a problem using the women's (some women have had a problem with me, depending on how I'm looking). For the most part, me looking how I do or even a bit more male wouldn't have a huge effect on the outside world, just make me that much more comfortable in my own skin.
"Let's conspire to ignite all the souls that would die just to feel alive."
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