Using the men's room

[CursedFireDean]

I saw a documentary and one of the FTMs said he was beaten when he used the men's room in a bar. I can't remember the name of the documentary....

But, I think people just need to use some common sense and realize there's a risk to everything you do.

I saw that documentary too... I think it was the national geographic one?

[DriftingCrow]

I saw that documentary too... I think it was the national geographic one?

Maybe it was nat geo, but i know it had the same girl that was featured in Red Without Blue.

[aleon515]

Is there a documented case of a girl or transguy being beaten for using the men room?

I'm curious as to how that kind of information would be documented. Would it be said that there was a woman (sic) in a men's room and she (sic) got what she deserved? A non or partially passing transguy would be considered "female". I'm guessing we are more invisible as a minority.

--Jay

[Nygeel]

Is there a documented case of a girl or transguy being beaten for using the men room?

There's no case exactly but I know two people who were beaten up for using the men's.

[Frank]

I saw a documentary and one of the FTMs said he was beaten when he used the men's room in a bar. I can't remember the name of the documentary....

Excuse me, just going to slide in and point out that it was in a bar. You know, lowered inhibitions and whatlike?

[Cindy]

I haven't joined this thread as yet.

Couple of points from my view, nice post from the OP to raise awareness in my opinion.

TGs getting bashed in men's toilets?  Well bashings in men's toilets are so common that they don't raise an eyebrow, Guys are always bashing each other in the toilets, a very common pub fighting place. I'm not denying in anyway that transmen haven't been bashed but males seem to have a bashing gene anyway, it's linked to IQ and alcohol tolerance level.

Cindy

[aleon515]

TGs getting bashed in men's toilets?  Well bashings in men's toilets are so common that they don't raise an eyebrow, Guys are always bashing each other in the toilets, a very common pub fighting place. I'm not denying in anyway that transmen haven't been bashed but males seem to have a bashing gene anyway, it's linked to IQ and alcohol tolerance level.

Cindy

Well there's probably something to this. The other thing, when transwoman are beat up in bathrooms it is many times by women. That would certainly get attention, since women aren't normally associated with violence.

Don't think my IQ is lower because I'm a guy though. Don't know about alcohol tolerance, but guys are sometimes expected to drink more than women, even if their tolerance isn't so high. Except for younger women, women are rarely expected to drink. I think, living as a (pretend) woman, it has been some 20 years since I had to explain or otherwise defend or laugh away anybody asking me why I don't drink. I'm guessing that may change.

--Jay

[Cindy]

Well there's probably something to this. The other thing, when transwoman are beat up in bathrooms it is many times by women. That would certainly get attention, since women aren't normally associated with violence.

Don't think my IQ is lower because I'm a guy though. Don't know about alcohol tolerance, but guys are sometimes expected to drink more than women, even if their tolerance isn't so high. Except for younger women, women are rarely expected to drink. I think, living as a (pretend) woman, it has been some 20 years since I had to explain or otherwise defend or laugh away anybody asking me why I don't drink. I'm guessing that may change.

--Jay

Ohh boy.

You may be in for a surprise when you start mixing with guys FT.

I didn't mean ANYTHING about guys IQs or alcohol tolerance in general. To be clear, in the situation I was referring to many guys have a culture of drinking etc in their social areas, some get drunk and no problems, some get aggressively drunk. The mixture of booze lowered inhibitions, aggression from T (normal) and the drinking nature and stuff that goes on in pubs can lead to violence. It is random, dumb, stupid and happens.

My comment about IQ was 'in passing' because usually the 'dumber' the person the more likely they are to be violent when drunk.

It is a very well known thing and a thing guys deal with. Guys can get violent, particularly when drinking. It has nothing to do with TG, it's guy stuff. And yes fights often start in the toilet but it has NOTHING to do with TG etc, guys get aggressive and  particularly in clubs/pubs etc where there are lots of youg guys stuff happens.

My comment has NOTHING to do with your own behaviour.

I'll leave it there.

C

[kelly_aus]

Ohh boy.

You may be in for a surprise when you start mixing with guys FT.

I didn't mean ANYTHING about guys IQs or alcohol tolerance in general. To be clear, in the situation I was referring to many guys have a culture of drinking etc in their social areas, some get drunk and no problems, some get aggressively drunk. The mixture of booze lowered inhibitions, aggression from T (normal) and the drinking nature and stuff that goes on in pubs can lead to violence. It is random, dumb, stupid and happens.

My comment about IQ was 'in passing' because usually the 'dumber' the person the more likely they are to be violent when drunk.

It is a very well known thing and a thing guys deal with. Guys can get violent, particularly when drinking. It has nothing to do with TG, it's guy stuff. And yes fights often start in the toilet but it has NOTHING to do with TG etc, guys get aggressive and  particularly in clubs/pubs etc where there are lots of youg guys stuff happens.

My comment has NOTHING to do with your own behaviour.

I'll leave it there.

C

Cindy speaks the truth..

Back before transition, I got beat up in the bathroom of a bar a few times. Always by some very drunk and aggressive moron for some imagined slight.

[DriftingCrow]

I would imagine that most FTMs wouldn't report it to the police, just going on the same train of thought as to why many women (especially pre-rape shield law) didn't report rapes to the police. I don't think I'd want to have to explain to a cop that I am bio-female, and would just stumble on home or to an ER and deal with my wounds.

[Nygeel]

Cindy, mean what you say and say what you mean.

[Shantel]

I haven't joined this thread as yet.

Couple of points from my view, nice post from the OP to raise awareness in my opinion.

TGs getting bashed in men's toilets?  Well bashings in men's toilets are so common that they don't raise an eyebrow, Guys are always bashing each other in the toilets, a very common pub fighting place. I'm not denying in anyway that transmen haven't been bashed but males seem to have a bashing gene anyway, it's linked to IQ and alcohol tolerance level.

Cindy

From my experience dealing with a lot of blokes that were members of the 1st Royal Australian Regiment I can assure you that getting drunk and bashing people is more of a cultural curiosity which I observed during a drinking session between a bunch of Aussie's and some "Yanks" when an Aussie said "F*** LBJ", an American reciprocated with "F*** the Queen" It wasn't pretty! Had it been an all American drink-a-thon we would have all agreed and laughed, that would have been the end of it but the Aussies just love to mix it up and any excuse will do.

[Nero]

I didn't use the men's room much until I was passing. For me it wasn't fear of 'trouble' as much as embarrassment. Nobody ever said anything, but I felt embarrassed being seen going in when I looked female.

As far as the comments on the OP's posts, Shantel is encouraging guys who might need a push old school. I'm not saying she couldn't have been gentler, but there seems to be a socialization gap here. There's some oversensitivity on this board in general.

[John Smith]

I started using the men's room when I changed name and went full time, which was pre-T and without passing. I could do this because I live in an area where no one is likely to make a fuss. Now, as for guys finding girls in the men's room amusing, this is true. There is however the risk that guys close to their neanderthal roots might be threatened by what they perceive as "a chick trying to be a guy". So know your surroundings.

As for the rest that unfolded in this thread:
<deleted>  Ah screw it, pizza's done.

[spacerace]

All of the starbucks I've ever been to have single occupancy separate male and female restrooms, so if anyone is  looking for a place to try it out slowly and non-nonchalantly just for the feel of it, not a bad place to go next time you feel like spending 4 dollars for a coffee.

[Nygeel]

All of the starbucks I've ever been to have single occupancy separate male and female restrooms, so if anyone is  looking for a place to try it out slowly and non-nonchalantly just for the feel of it, not a bad place to go next time you feel like spending 4 dollars for a coffee.

In NYC starbucks has gender neutral bathrooms only. And they don't make a fuss if you don't buy anything.

[aleon515]

All of the starbucks I've ever been to have single occupancy separate male and female restrooms, so if anyone is  looking for a place to try it out slowly and non-nonchalantly just for the feel of it, not a bad place to go next time you feel like spending 4 dollars for a coffee.

I'm actually accepted as male at this local coffee place (been called "man" and so on). I use the men's single occupancy (just as clean as the women's actually). I don't think they'd care if I didn't buy anything.

Ok Cindy. I'll accept that. I don't think it is quite so simple as I think there have been incidents with partially passing ftms. I think you'd have a hard time provign it as there are so many incidents of generally thuggery in men's rooms (esp in bars). I'd guess it to be the most unsafe place to try anything new. I also think that a certain level of male thuggery is condoned in at least some societies. Where if a woman beats up someone it is huge national news. Women thuggery is not condoned. Chalk it up partially for equal rights to thuggery?

LH, I think there is something there. A lot of guys are stealth so even bringing stuff up.


--Jay

[Liminal Stranger]

In NYC starbucks has gender neutral bathrooms only. And they don't make a fuss if you don't buy anything.

Quoted for truth. It's nice to be able to just walk in, do my business, and walk out without someone behind the counter saying "HEY YOU! BUY SOMETHING NOW!" and releasing the guard dogs.

I want to do that in school but too many people know me there and I really don't feel like setting off anyone who might not be bright enough to be understanding if I ever explained.

[anibioman]

I certainly don't mean any disrespect, but I don't think this kind of a thread is entirely appropriate.  Just my opinion, but I feel like I would be a little put off if I was reading your post as a member of its target audience.

as part of its target audience im not in the slight bit offended. It may be because i agree with the OP's point men dont care just walk in like you own the place and dont worry about it.

[spacerace]

Maybe it was nat geo, but i know it had the same girl that was featured in Red Without Blue.

I just watched this  after seeing it mentioned in this thread.  And yeah  - one of the transguys highlighted gets assaulted pretty bad in a restroom one night at a bar. He said he used to not go in the restroom at this bar because he was afraid, and the first time he tried it he was accosted.

Not that this means anyone should be scared or anything in most circumstances, just that it does apparently happen to trans guys too unfortunately, so we should always be aware of our surroundings.