RLE...Is it really that important ?

[Agent_J]

I honestly cannot say much since I have little contact with others in the region. I do know that I am not the only one to suffer the surgery letter issue; a dear friend nearly lost her surgery date due to the delays (the only reason I didn't was that I worked on securing my letters 10.5 months ahead of surgery, having some schedule limitations on when I could have it.)

[Anatta]

I honestly cannot say much since I have little contact with others in the region. I do know that I am not the only one to suffer the surgery letter issue; a dear friend nearly lost her surgery date due to the delays (the only reason I didn't was that I worked on securing my letters 10.5 months ahead of surgery, having some schedule limitations on when I could have it.)

Kia Ora Agent_J,

I wish you all the best with your post-op counselling...I hope you can find a therapist who 'knows' what they are doing...

Metta Zenda

[Agent_J]

Thank you; as do I. To date, I have seen 6 different therapists in the last few years, and all fell into one of two categories: either they supported gatekeeping or they clung to a belief that the ever-increasing restrictions I faced were necessary to ensure people didn't make mistakes and transition when they shouldn't.

[Anatta]

Thank you; as do I. To date, I have seen 6 different therapists in the last few years, and all fell into one of two categories: either they supported gatekeeping or they clung to a belief that the ever-increasing restrictions I faced were necessary to ensure people didn't make mistakes and transition when they shouldn't.

Kia Ora Agent_J,

The therapists you saw sound an awful lot like this guy John Randell who worked a Charring Cross Gender Clinic 

Metta Zenda

[lizubeth]

I talked my therapist down from six months to three months.

But I still find it kind of unnecessary hell while in highschool :/
Not sure if I want to start or not yet or wait till I finish.

[Anatta]

I talked my therapist down from six months to three months.

But I still find it kind of unnecessary hell while in highschool :/
Not sure if I want to start or not yet or wait till I finish.

Kia Ora Lisbeth,

After seeing your photo in another thread, I'm sure you will breeze through the three months RLE with out HRT...Just be yourself and perhaps just dress a little more androgynous when at school...

However if you are really unsure, then perhaps just wait until you finish school, but in the mean time you still dress androgynously-this may help to easy the anxiety...Besides you're still quite young so 'biologically' another year or so won't make much difference...

Metta Zenda

[warlockmaker]

It is archiac and one of society's rules which can be so cruel. I plan to have the RLE but not before FFS. Society can be cruel for those who dont look feminine and can cause stress and anxieties. I also think it depends on the maturity of the individual - its an irreversable decision and I can understand the need when you are under a certain age. Being a female is mental first and the physical side is only secondary point. Its so contrversial and its different from one person to another.

[Chloe]

But you know nobody gets to be born a woman, or a man for that matter. Mothers give birth to girls and boys and both have to go through a lengthy process of socialization and living to become acceptable as men and women.

That's how the world works. Please. Think about it.

What?? I 'ave thought about it . . . Tell me, Do You Fear Males and are you a Hilary Clinton Democrat??? lol

If "the world" had it's way it seems All Men Would Be Woman !!!! I do think / agree part of the problem with "femininity" today is the so-called "support groups" for women have changed RADICALLY and it's more about economic/political EQUALITY/POWER than it is about a woman's true domain which is "children & family".

And as the new, real "gatekeepers" of everything "trans" the RLE has become nothing more than a deliberate exercise in modern day usual male shaming.

Please, one cannot talk about "roles" which are, nigh We Should Be CHANGING (and not "social cis" anybody)!!!

[Northern Jane]

I have been around for an awfully long time (nearly  40 years post-op) and I find the idea of RLE without hormones detestable!!!! It is like throwing someone who doesn't know how to swim into the deep end while holding an anchor.

I started hormones in my early teens, whenever I could beg, borrow, or steal them and with a little help from Mother Nature I found it easier to pass as a girl than a guy by my mid teens. I would NEVER have had the courage to present as 'my true self' otherwise!

Some (very few) changes caused by hormones are totally irreversible and it only makes sense to "start in the shallow end". If you decide to get out, the damage is minimal. If you stay, you learn to swim as you go. BUT, learning to swim IS important before you jump in with the anchor!

[Chloe]

I have been around for an awfully long time (nearly  40 years post-op) and I find the idea of RLE without hormones detestable!!!!

LOL NJ yer one of "the older ones" who's truly, really "trans" apparently the rest of us just weren't authentic, serious enough about it AT ALL! ! Finding "self-meds" back then was certainly no easy matter and correct if wrong but transition was a very lonely, harrowing process indeed and notions of "RLE"s, let alone prospects of family,  just made it all that more terrifying !!! 

Found the following on my blog dated 2007 unsure from who but somewhat relevant / telling in terms of times differences . . .

. . . . it is a very arrogant argument the proponents of which I have learned to totally ignore and to not even bother trying to respond to. I do not seek out the opinions and advice of the kids down the block or at work so why on earth should I worry about what they are concerned about here?

If the truth be known (since you saw fit to bring this up) I submit that quite the reverse is actually true as I for one seriously question the authenticity of a lot of the younger "information age" TS's that we see emerging today. The addiction of the Internet & the power of suggestion that it can hold at an albeit already most difficult, very impressionable age can be a great influence indeed and for somebody to perhaps suggest that we were somehow either very slow or mistaken and transitioning later in life for no other valid reason other than it is "the popular thing to do" is in my opinion both ludicrous and yet quite telling.

In other words RLE might indeed be more important today than it was proported to be back then?

I see the difference today is a lot of kids don't have intact, two parent families and rebellion from "norms" and "disrespect" for "elders" is almost standard operating procedure with  most of the family parents today being solely women.

And given albeit what 'lil experience - all positive - I've had with "shrinks, endo's and doctors" in general I think the biggest "gatekeepers" we have today Are Members Right Here @ Susans !!!

[Northern Jane]

LOL NJ yer one of "the older ones" who's truly, really "trans" apparently the rest of us just weren't authentic, serious enough about it AT ALL

I certainly never intended any disrespect! It is a  tough row to hoe no matter when you face it. I simply HAD to find a way to survive.

[Anatta]

Kia Ora,

Thanks for your 'thoughtful' comments so far...It important to explore ones feelings on certain topics that affect many trans-folk...(Even for those of us for whom the contents is no longer relevant )

I've added a poll...In respect that some members may want to express their feelings(in some way) on this somewhat 'controversial' topic, but have no wish/desire to comment on the thread ...

I think it's important to remember, we all have a right to our opinions and by expressing them (when commenting on this thread) we also acknowledge that our point of view(be it somewhat controversial or not) may be challenged in a 'respectful' matter...

Metta Zenda

[Agent_J]

I noticed and answered the poll. Personally, I don't see the connection of RLE to surgery, in no small part due to my own experiences and the inherently power dynamic/imbalance, both of having it extended significantly and then still regretting SRS because of how the authorities who controlled my access to surgery used (and abused) their power - in such a way that the therapy and medical conversations that could have helped me greatly, including to be happy with surgery, were impossibly without me paying the price of forever losing access to surgery.

[Anatta]

Kia Ora Agent,

Your personal situation is somewhat unique so the whole idea of the RLE in your case was (to say the least) impractical-  not ideal and I sympathise with your plight(the unpleasant experiences you have had to endure that have lead to where you are now)...However what's done is done, this is the reality you must now overcome and start to build a more positive foundation on which to build/plan your life...

"Ones past shapes ones "present" (Where you are in life 'right' now) and ones present shapes ones future!" One can't change the past nor can one know what the future holds, but one can make preparations in the present (where one is at right 'now' ) to shape ones future in a more positive way...

This involves one of my favourite sayings "If you change the way you look at things-The things you look at change !"


The present moment is full of opportunities so don't pollute it by continually dragging up the past -

I hope that you can find the help you need to help you let the past go!

Metta Zenda

[Agent_J]

Are you asserting that I have no right to provide answers about such questions based on my experience? While the specifics of my experience are unique, the issues of having a gatekeeper control the permission to proceed are far more widely applicable, including that, as many I know have stated, the entire process had negative consequences.

My position is that I oppose any approach but Informed Consent.

[BunnyBee]

For SRS, yes I believe so. Just to weed out people that it isn't right for.  Nothing does people who legitimately need that surgery more damage than people with SRS regret.  Public perception-wise, it's really bad.  You or I may be totally sane and be perfectly safe having that done without any hoops to jump through, but I don't want to trust everybody on Earth with that freedom, cause there be some real loopy peeps out there.

HRT on the other hand, I think fewer hoops would be nice.  It just isn't nearly so permanent and can give immediate emotional relief for some peeps, along with helping people with having a smoother, less dangerous transition.  I think that could save lives tbh.

[Agent_J]

For SRS, yes I believe so. Just to weed out people that it isn't right for.  Nothing does people who legitimately need that surgery more damage than people with SRS regret.  Public perception-wise, it's really bad.

This is exactly why I have such a hard time talking about what I currently experience - severe SRS regret after having completed 2+ years of RLE. I know that speaking about it carries the risk of harming those for whom it is right.

[calico]

I think based on others comments and experience's that the system is not perfect by any means, even after RLE and all the gate-keeping etc people can still have regret, however that can sometime be due to incorrect method of therapy, or mal-practice of doctors in general and their loose interpretation of guideline's.
I personally don't understand the whole RLE experience, mostly because I went at it do or die, meaning that I was going to be the proper gender or I was going to not exist anymore (suicide). I accepted the possibility of people being negative, loosing family and friends and even starting over from 0 because I viewed it as preferable to death or worse living as male, when srs took place similier decision was made, and I had surgery but what was right or worked for me should not be used as an example or as a "proof" to proper treatment and therefore shouldn't be forced on someone because what worked for me may not be ideal or work for someone else.
If anything, treatment should be tier based that is start with the less permanent treatment and go from there, hormones/RLE, than surgeries is so desired, again at the option and choice of the individual and not the doctor or therapist.

[Anatta]

Are you asserting that I have no right to provide answers about such questions based on my experience? While the specifics of my experience are unique, the issues of having a gatekeeper control the permission to proceed are far more widely applicable, including that, as many I know have stated, the entire process had negative consequences.

My position is that I oppose any approach but Informed Consent.

Kia Ora Agent,

No not at all...Just saying due to the incompetent nature of the mental and medical health 'professionals' you had to deal with, instead of a "Better quality of life and mental well being" (which is suppose to come after gender affirming surgery "G.A.S"), you (so it would seem) judging by your posts are  living a nightmare...

BTW I feel that it's important for the pre-opers to hear from those post-opers who have regrets, it's a reality check and the opportunity to possibly learn from their (these who now have regrets) mistakes...

Did you mention before that you would have been happy staying non-op ?

Metta Zenda

[BunnyBee]

This is exactly why I have such a hard time talking about what I currently experience - severe SRS regret after having completed 2+ years of RLE. I know that speaking about it carries the risk of harming those for whom it is right.

Wow that is tough.  Sorry to hear that