Yeson voice feminization surgery

[Alaia]

OMG, can I just say wow!

Jenny, I just read through the whole thread and I'm amazed with how much your voice has improved. I too had listened to many of the examples on Dr. Thomas' site and while some sounded great, the ones that didn't turned me completely off to the idea of getting VFS. Looking at how well you turned out and with the success rates at Yeson, it has certainly changed my mind!

I am curious though, now that you've had time to recover from surgery and are doing vocal exercises, do you find it easier to reach the upper notes in your range? And can you hit them without sounding too falsetto? Right now I top out around a C5 and can go a bit higher (~680 Hz), but it really strains me when I do and sounds squeaky. It would be awesome if VFS made it easier to hit those high notes and make them sound feminine too.

Eh, maybe just wishful thinking on my part.

[Jennygirl]

OMG, can I just say wow!

Jenny, I just read through the whole thread and I'm amazed with how much your voice has improved. I too had listened to many of the examples on Dr. Thomas' site and while some sounded great, the ones that didn't turned me completely off to the idea of getting VFS. Looking at how well you turned out and with the success rates at Yeson, it has certainly changed my mind!

I am curious though, now that you've had time to recover from surgery and are doing vocal exercises, do you find it easier to reach the upper notes in your range? And can you hit them without sounding too falsetto? Right now I top out around a C5 and can go a bit higher (~680 Hz), but it really strains me when I do and sounds squeaky. It would be awesome if VFS made it easier to hit those high notes and make them sound feminine too.

Eh, maybe just wishful thinking on my part.

Thanks and I'm glad it helped out

I've actually been a little worried about the upper upper range for a while- even before I had the surgery with Yeson I maxed out at C5 (that was the absolute highest noise I could make and very quietly). I forgot to test how high I could go prior to my trach shave with Dr O... but I think it's possible that it slightly limited the very very top range of my voice to a C5 even though I had no noticeable symptoms of voice issues at all.

Anyway currently, I top out at exactly the same point. The very highest pitch I can make is 508hz and that is at super low volume and stretching it. At volume I top out at 465hz - A#4. That isn't bad at all for a normal speaking voice, but no can do on the girly shrieks or squeals yet. That is one thing I have been looking forward to most. Because if I can do that, it means I can sing in a female range, too. So far, no change unfortunately. I just emailed Yeson asking Jessie about it. My guess is she's going to say exactly what I already think - either it's been permanently limited from the tracheal shave or my voice will continue to raise up and up as I do the voice exercises and heal more... I am hoping for the latter!

Hey Ella, what is the highest pitch you can make if you don't mind me asking? I am curious if yours is any higher or if it's changed at all from the surgery.

I just remembered! My grandma did a recording of when I was 10 years old singing soprano in a duet with my Mom. This is the highest my voice ever really was, and it stayed that way until I was nearly in highschool (I was a late bloomer )

Also a warning, my grandma's recording device sounds a little distorted so turn the speakers down!


F5's (~700hz) like it's nothing. I reaallly hope to get that back!

[Lena from Kiev]

OMG, can I just say wow!

Jenny, I just read through the whole thread and I'm amazed with how much your voice has improved. I too had listened to many of the examples on Dr. Thomas' site and while some sounded great, the ones that didn't turned me completely off to the idea of getting VFS. Looking at how well you turned out and with the success rates at Yeson, it has certainly changed my mind!

Jenny sounds good because she learnt how to change resonance. Did you?
Yeson don't explain how to change resonance. They tell to do some exercises, but that isn't what helped Jenny. She learnt how to shorten vocal tract by straining right muscles. Did you? If no then this surgery will not help you to sound female. High-pitched - yes. Female - no. Pitch change is not the one and only measure of success.

[Jennygirl]

Jenny sounds good because she learnt how to change resonance. Did you?
Yeson don't explain how to change resonance. They tell to do some exercises, but that isn't what helped Jenny. She learnt how to shorten vocal tract by straining right muscles. Did you? If no then this surgery will not help you to sound female. High-pitched - yes. Female - no. Pitch change is not the one and only measure of success.

Thanks Lena

And you are right. They do tell you that vocal training is an essential part alongside the surgery. I was aware of that going into it, as well. And yes, I did learn how to change my resonance. Every week I notice I am getting better with it, too, as I learn new ways of expressing my new voice and gaining the real world experience that I missed out on during the entirety of my pre-op voice fem training.

[Carrie Liz]

Sigh... before my voice changed, I used to be able to make it up all the way to a C6, or 1046.50 hz. I've been wishing that there was a way to restore my soprano voice like forever... and seriously, letting my voice change is one of the biggest regrets that I have in my entire life. (I had this soprano range until I was 15 years old, and then POOF, one day it was gone.) I've been trying to force my voice to be able to make it back up into that range ever since I lost it in the first place. But alas, I don't think that's ever going to happen. In 12 years of trying, I've only managed to get like two notes back. The highest I can make it comfortably now at normal volume is D5, at 587 hz, and I can make it up to the F5 at 698 if I really force it out.

If there really is a way for it to get back up to that range with any surgery, you can count me in. (But I doubt it...)

[Jennygirl]

Sigh... before my voice changed, I used to be able to make it up all the way to a C6, or 1046.50 hz. I've been wishing that there was a way to restore my soprano voice like forever... and seriously, letting my voice change is one of the biggest regrets that I have in my entire life. (I had this soprano range until I was 15 years old, and then POOF, one day it was gone.) I've been trying to force my voice to be able to make it back up into that range ever since I lost it in the first place. But alas, I don't think that's ever going to happen. In 12 years of trying, I've only managed to get like two notes back. The highest I can make it comfortably now at normal volume is D5, at 587 hz, and I can make it up to the F5 at 698 if I really force it out.

If there really is a way for it to get back up to that range with any surgery, you can count me in. (But I doubt it...)

Thanks for posting those statistics on your range Carrie! It's helpful to know. You still have a much higher max range than I currently do! I have my fingers crossed that I get the opposite of that "POOF" effect, but in all reality I am just so darned happy with the results of this surgery that it is all water under the bridge- even currently without the squeaks and squeals and super high soprano notes

My main concern was: does my voice pass? Yes, it does. I went from outing myself every time I had a conversation with someone to effortlessly passing as a female. That, to me, was priceless any way I look at it. The rest is bells and whistles. I am not a professional squealer so I am quite happy where I am already

[peky]

My main concern was: does my voice pass? Yes, it does. I went from outing myself every time I had a conversation with someone to effortlessly passing as a female.

I have tried everything is out there in the internet, I even hired a voice coach...bottom line..nothing worked...and every time I open my mouth I out myself

So, Jennygirl, I was a so impressed with your voice change that I will be making an appointment with Dr. Kim as soon as possible. I am not hoping for a change as dramtic as yours but even a small change in my voice would be considered a victory

Thank you for the lead and for sharing your story...xxoo

Peky

BTW...the Pie Jesu is so beautiful on so many accounts...
\

[Lena from Kiev]

I have tried everything is out there in the internet

Did you read http://groups.yahoo.com/group/voicets/message/9179 ?

[Alaia]

Jenny sounds good because she learnt how to change resonance. Did you?
Yeson don't explain how to change resonance. They tell to do some exercises, but that isn't what helped Jenny. She learnt how to shorten vocal tract by straining right muscles. Did you? If no then this surgery will not help you to sound female. High-pitched - yes. Female - no. Pitch change is not the one and only measure of success.

Ok, why do I feel like I'm having my throat jumped down when I only posted to express how impressed I was at Jenny's experience and to ask her a few questions about it?

But in response, I'm well aware that Jenny has done lots of work to change resonance. I'm also aware that this surgery is intended to modify pitch and not resonance. However, it may have an indirect impact on resonance. Her vocal cords weren't just shortened, they were thinned as well. This may have made some notes that used to only be in her falsetto range available to her modal register. It also may have made it easier to hit some of the higher notes in her modal register without straining too much. Now I'm just starting to learn to develop my female voice, so I'm certainly no expert. But in my own experience I can make my voice sound feminine so long as I'm not straining too much or in falsetto.

So if the surgery can change the point at which one's voice feels strained or when you have to switch to falsetto, which in turn may make it easier to sound feminine, then I'd like to know. That is what I was trying to get at with my questions.

[Lena from Kiev]

Her vocal cords weren't just shortened, they were thinned as well.

Thickness of vocal folds also affects pitch, not resonance. Resonance depends on VTL - length of vocal tract - the tube from vocal folds to lips. VTL depends on larynx position. Here I explained why and how to elevate larynx. It's not about hard work, it's about "getting it". Get it first, use it for few months, then decide whether the surgery is necessary.

BTW, does Yason warn that after this surgery, before next surgeries (if any) you must warn anesthesiologists that you need thin (child's) intubation tube gingerly inserted along posterior pharynx wall?

[Jennygirl]

But in response, I'm well aware that Jenny has done lots of work to change resonance. I'm also aware that this surgery is intended to modify pitch and not resonance. However, it may have an indirect impact on resonance. Her vocal cords weren't just shortened, they were thinned as well. This may have made some notes that used to only be in her falsetto range available to her modal register. It also may have made it easier to hit some of the higher notes in her modal register without straining too much. Now I'm just starting to learn to develop my female voice, so I'm certainly no expert. But in my own experience I can make my voice sound feminine so long as I'm not straining too much or in falsetto.

So if the surgery can change the point at which one's voice feels strained or when you have to switch to falsetto, which in turn may make it easier to sound feminine, then I'd like to know. That is what I was trying to get at with my questions.

Yes absolutely! I did use to strain slightly keeping my voice at anything above 200hz. That has become what is now my natural range which is probably the greatest thing about this surgery.

I definitely have a new modal comfort zone. There is absolutely no strain whatsoever.

As far as the intubation question, no they did not warn me. But if I do have any surgeries I would be VERY adamant about them knowing that I have a smaller opening down there- similar to a female.

And thanks for your post peky- I am glad this thread has helped you!

[Lena from Kiev]

if I do have any surgeries I would be VERY adamant about them knowing that I have a smaller opening down there- similar to a female.

No, not similar to female. Usual women haven't an obstacle attached to anterior (frontal) wall of larynx. Their vocal folds (when relaxed) don't catch the intubation tube. Your anterior parts of vocal folds protrude inside larynx even when relaxed, the photo you posted is of relaxed state. Imagine an anesthesiologist blindly pushing a rigid plastic tube from the top when you are already unconscious.

[Jennygirl]

No, not similar to female. Usual women haven't an obstacle attached to anterior (frontal) wall of larynx. Their vocal folds (when relaxed) don't catch the intubation tube. Your anterior parts of vocal folds protrude inside larynx even when relaxed, the photo you posted is of relaxed state. Imagine an anesthesiologist blindly pushing a rigid plastic tube from the top when you are already unconscious.

Ohhh.. that makes sense. Basically you mean where the surgical area is? The part that they sutured together?

[Lena from Kiev]

you mean where the surgical area is? The part that they sutured together?

Yes. It's an unexpected obstacle for an intubation tube. The anesthesiologist must be careful to slide the tube around that obstacle (along the posterior pharynx and larynx wall) instead of blindly pushing the tube down.

Note and explain to each anesthesiologist that on the photo anterior (frontal) end is at the bottom.

[Alaia]

Yes absolutely! I did use to strain slightly keeping my voice at anything above 200hz. That has become what is now my natural range which is probably the greatest thing about this surgery.

I definitely have a new modal comfort zone. There is absolutely no strain whatsoever.

Thanks Jenny, that's exactly what I was interested in knowing. Getting something like this done is probably way down the road for me, but I like to consider my options well in advance. In the meantime I'll be focusing on what I can do now like voice training.

[Jamie D]

Ohhh.. that makes sense. Basically you mean where the surgical area is? The part that they sutured together?

You could always wear a MedAlert bracelet or necklace.  I have one because of my previous heart surgeries and other medical conditions, but if the doctors miss the railroad tracks on my chest, they should not be doctors.

Oh, and Jenny - 1994 - so cute. 

[abbyt89]

Yay I booked my flight and hotel for my surgery! I am having it done on August 13th, less than a month!

I'm so excited!

[Jennygirl]

Yay I booked my flight and hotel for my surgery! I am having it done on August 13th, less than a month!

I'm so excited!

Wowowow!! Congrats!

I remember the feeling like I was yesterday

[Jennygirl]

I just got a response back from Jessie on the upper range thing.

Dr. Kim said that the max range definitely does move upward ( yay! ) but it could take up to a year to finally settle and be fully realized. My normal speaking range has already shifted by about 70-75hz comfortably which has made the largest improvement to my normal speaking voice... that was basically immediate.

It's been 61 days out of 365 for me, so I guess I should have some patience!

Also I definitely notice I talk lower when I am at work trying to speak with a more distinguished professional voice... it goes down into its low register around 180-185hz (still not bad at all for a female range). When my voice feels warmed up though, I have no problem holding 215hz. I find that starting in the mid afternoon is when it starts to creep upward. By the time I get home (or whenever I'm on the phone) it's full val mode

[Jennygirl]

I have big news... upper squeak register has been DISCOVERED!

I was testing if the voice exercises had improved my upper range when all of a sudden I slightly relaxed my vocal cords and at the same time kind of tightened up the airway... Up I went to 842hz! Then 920hz! 1086hz! Squeak squeak!

Okay it's not usable at all right now but I am excited to "tame" it!!! One of my cats keeps giving me the "WTF" stare like I'm some kind of weirdo! LOL

Haha, I'm getting him every time. He's seriously weirded out. This is great.