Yeson voice feminization surgery

[abbyt89]

For the first 7 days you aren't allowed to talk at all. After that you can say a few words a day for another few weeks. For me my voice was weak to the point that I ended up just resting my voice pretty much 100% of the time until about 4 weeks post op.

And Kiwi, I wouldn't worry about anything. It took a while for me for my voice quality to really start to come back. I'd say it wasn't until around 6 weeks post-op that my voice quality had returned enough to where I could have a long conversation without my voice quality dropping or my throat getting dry and scratchy.

[Jennygirl]

For the first 7 days you aren't allowed to talk at all. After that you can say a few words a day for another few weeks. For me my voice was weak to the point that I ended up just resting my voice pretty much 100% of the time until about 4 weeks post op.

And Kiwi, I wouldn't worry about anything. It took a while for me for my voice quality to really start to come back. I'd say it wasn't until around 6 weeks post-op that my voice quality had returned enough to where I could have a long conversation without my voice quality dropping or my throat getting dry and scratchy.

Yeah pretty much the same for me. 1 month before I started talking at all, then 2 months before I had any conversation ability (voice still would give out somewhat after long conversations), and around 3 months before I had enough power in my voice not to have to lean in while talking to people with any background noise. It wasn't until 4 months that I really had much power to speak up and my voice was starting to feel more normal to me. It takes a while to heal!

Also Kiwi you had the botox injection, so that keeps your vocal cords loose for a good while. At 3 weeks post op you have absolutely nothing to worry about. The little 10 word recording I did way early on (at around 2-3 weeks) was with the computer mic right next to my mouth

Also NO whispering!! It will delay your recovery bigtime from what I read all over the internets.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/08/health/08really.html

[Jennygirl]

Also I will add it wasn't until about 5 months that my yelling voice started to go up in pitch.

I wouldn't even recommend trying to yell until you are at least 3 months out. Don't force anything

[anjaq]

I wonder one thing - why are they at Yesons doing the "official" pre/post op videos and recordings after 2 months? It seems to me that after 2 months the voice is barely healed enough to be used at all and still sounds weak and strained a bit. Would it not be better to also do a 4 or 6 months interview or recording? I have shown some of the recordings from Yeson (well actually only the ones of Maja, Jenny and Abby, I found the other ones not very good mainly because the people in them spoke weird pre- and postop) and they kind of told me I should stay away from it becuase the voices sound so weak and strained and I had to explain that this is still not healed... but could not really show them via the Yeson youtube channels how things sound like as a final result.

[Jennygirl]

I asked Jessie the same thing, and it's the same answer- very hard to follow up with people after so long.

It's crazy how much of a difference a little bit of background noise makes with a voice not fully healed. After about 3 months I finally no longer felt restrained in those scenarios. But for my recordings pre 3 months, there was absolutely no background noise so I was able to speak quietly and comfortably within my volume range at the time.

And as I've said before, I don't think any professional voice practitioner would EVER recommend that you have any sort of surgery to modify your vocal cords unless you had a defect that was not solvable through practice. Honestly unless you want to be given a weird look, convincing a voice therapist of its benefits would be a fruitless effort. Even when I met with a voice feminization therapist in LA after my surgery, I could sense that on the inside she was kind of scoffing at me or something like I had cheated or taken the easy road. She was still helpful in that one lesson, but it didn't feel like a good mesh for how much she charged and I decided to stop going. I'm not going to pay $200 a session to feel a strange vibe. Flash forward a month when I had another session with my gender therapist - her jaw hit the floor when she heard me and flooded me with questions about the surgery. Quite a different response!

[Jennygirl]

I guess all I'm saying is that only you yourself can decide whether this surgery is right for you. Seeking approval from voice practitioners is likely going to get you nowhere no matter how many good examples you can present to them. They might even go so far as to turn you off from the idea thinking they are protecting you.

In my case I had told my gender therapist beforehand about Yeson and she asked me not to do it. Well, obviously I did it anyway, and now she sees what a huge benefit for me it's been across the board.

[anjaq]

Yes I can imagine that a voice therapistwould not ever want to suggest a surgery or approve of it. A voice clinic might consider it at least an option though for them it would probably also be a last resort effort. In that case I was trying to get information again on the Berlin surgeon via german language TG groups and I am starting to get the "usual" comments about how I should try voice training first (and then they give all those nice recordings how great their voices are now after training - and it really can be totally great, it seems) and that all voice surgery is leading to weak or constrained voices and that - and if I try to show them that it can be good results, saldy the Yeson recordings are too short post op to really be convincing. I got one contact who will go to Berlin soon though, so thats an upside - chance to get a report of a first hand experience.

[Paige]

I guess all I'm saying is that only you yourself can decide whether this surgery is right for you. Seeking approval from voice practitioners is likely going to get you nowhere no matter how many good examples you can present to them. They might even go so far as to turn you off from the idea thinking they are protecting you.

In my case I had told my gender therapist beforehand about Yeson and she asked me not to do it. Well, obviously I did it anyway, and now she sees what a huge benefit for me it's been across the board.

I guess this is all to be expected, for years voice surgery has had such a bad name, it's going to take some time for it to turn around.   I would also guess that there's a prejudice against foreign medical procedures that will need to be overcome.    With that said I bet more and more will follow Jenny and Abby, and eventually people will start to notice.  Perhaps some voice surgeons in North America will figure out that this is the way to do it and start doing the procedure here? 

[Carrie Liz]

So, does full voice volume and power eventually come back with the Yeson procedure? Or is the voice always a bit quieter? I guess I hadn't really thought about the full connotations of the weakened volume until those last few posts.

[Paige]

So, does full voice volume and power eventually come back with the Yeson procedure? Or is the voice always a bit quieter? I guess I hadn't really thought about the full connotations of the weakened volume until those last few posts.

This actually reminds me of a question that popped into my head the other day.  Can you scream and if not will you be able to in the future without damaging anything?

[abbyt89]

This actually reminds me of a question that popped into my head the other day.  Can you scream and if not will you be able to in the future without damaging anything?

Yes, you can scream when your voice is healed to a certain point but it's stressful so like singing I plan on avoiding it until I'm at least 6 months post-op.

As for the volume thing, that actually isn't an issue at all with my voice. I don't think it's any quieter than my voice was pre-op and I can talk loudly without any issue. I actually speak at a higher pitch when I speak louder too.

[Jennygirl]

Perhaps some voice surgeons in North America will figure out that this is the way to do it and start doing the procedure here?

For the benefit of others, I hope you are right! I have a feeling that Yeson will be the best for a while though. They already have a huge headstart on performing it and perfecting it.

So, does full voice volume and power eventually come back with the Yeson procedure? Or is the voice always a bit quieter? I guess I hadn't really thought about the full connotations of the weakened volume until those last few posts.

As of now it feels to me like my voice is full power. At higher frequencies, I feel like I have more power than I used to- at the very least the same. It still seems to be improving every week- I'm still not done recovering yet.

This actually reminds me of a question that popped into my head the other day.  Can you scream and if not will you be able to in the future without damaging anything?

Yes I have screamed many times. And while I may not be pouring the full brunt of my airways into it, it is very loud. I lead bikerides around Los Angeles and have to scream directions loud enough for people to know where and when to turn. So far I have had absolutely no problem projecting my voice even over a loud soundsystem that sits right behind me

A little update on my recovery...

I think this past week has been one of the biggest so far. There is a new range or register coming in that is becoming much more easy to access. I did a little research on it and it looks like it's known as the "whistle" register and is also known as the flageolet register. Earlier in the thread I was referring to it as the "squeak" register, lol. However now I am able to take it down to lower pitches and it feels very much like head voice used to as a male. As I go up, it becomes bright and edgy. The whistle register is an extension of head register, they are intertwined.

Tonight I was once again able to hit a G5 / 784hz doing my down/up/down sirens. I am VERY happy about this!!! Once I'm done with my exercises is when I try out that new register. It seems to get better almost with every day. Today, the bottom range of the upper register ranged from E5 all the way up to... G6 / 1,568hz! I actually sang a scale going all the way up to G6 and down with full control staying in that register. Anything below E5 / 660hz and it begins to break up. I think it's such a good sign of things to come from this surgery!!! I am becoming more and more confident that after another 6 or so months of recovery I will be able to sing alto. After 2 years I have almost no doubt!

Well that's about it, I hope my tales of recovery are helpful to those of you thinking about having this surgery. So far it looks like every single one of the claims they make are turning out to be true for me.

Also where are you, kathyp?? I've been so eager to here how your recovery is going!

[Kiwi4Eva]

I have to share something...apart from my teeth ending up in my stomach and wearing an orange sized bruise on my shoulder...my support person, a kindred spirit of some 40 years, came with me.  Her job was to sit back and enjoy the ride and be my voice for me.  She didn't.  I don't know why, I really don't.  I know she hated Seoul and the way people stared at us.  She was homesick (so was I) but in spite of her all-expenses paid trip my friend of 40 years attempted to kill herself in the Palace Grounds in Seoul.  I was taking my medication with a drink at the tourist shop when she walked off.  Imagine the scenario if you can.  I wasn't too concerned so carried on to the display of the King and his guards, fully expecting to see her in the crowd of thousands.  After 4 hours and looking for her, I had no choice but to go to the information centre and between writing on a pad and crying, trying to explain my friend had disappeared.

Four hours later the police and palace security came and told me they thought they had found her.  They asked me to come with them as she was hysterical and wouldn't let anyone near her.

Oh Shiiiit!.

Before this happened I was pleading with her not to make me talk.  But she seemed fascinated with what had happened to me and yes there was some psychiatric stuff going on obviously.

She had confided in me about how her partner of 25 years had been abusing her.  She is 64, and will never get those years back.  She has Hep C too so she knows the chances of getting procedures are pretty unlikely.

Jessie asked her if she would like to have her Adam's Apple (Shaved I suppose) and this would cost $2500 U.S.  I think she just came out and asked her.  And my friend doesn't do anything to hide it or wear clothes to hide how emaciated she has become.

She had a sex change (many years ago) and ended up with this guy...In spite of me seeing her every day I never knew the extent of what he was doing to her, but I did know they had been able to own three homes because she was on a benefit.  In our country you aren't allowed to be on a benefit if you have a partner.  Because of her benefit she never changed her legal status from male to female.  I was quite shocked...

I have learned a lot from my journey to Chonburi, from many of the ladies here, and from my friends situation. 

We're all different.

My choices aren't necessarily going to be yours.  And I have no right to expect anyone else to make the choices I have.

Some people like their Adam's Apples.  They like to look different. 

She performed in shows and was very good at it.

Her performance in Seoul was a mix of her psychiatric issues and shame & jealousy.  Shame because she tried to kill herself (and planned it before we left!) and I have photographed it - I was terrified.  Suddenly I had to mother her, and there was no support for me.  I was also very worried that Korean mental health would get hold of her and how would I get her released.  It was a nightmare.

We flew home 1st Class (got upgraded) and it was on the long journey where she ate everything and behaved normally that I realized my friend really had died in Seoul.

Her partner (and 2 other men) were there to chaperone her from the airport and she never said goodbye.

So I was worried that maybe I had done damage to my voice, because I hadn't been able to rest it till I got home, not really.

Hopefully I am wrong.  She did have me laughing in Seoul.  Without a voice...you know, you can do it through your neck.  And I had a very high pitched laugh.

My throat no longer feels like sandpaper and it is getting a lot of rest (no stress)

Maybe I am wrong, but it did seem a little like the only way I could destroy the procedure would be if I yelled and tore the sutures (I have 2) I have never done that.

I don't feel good sharing this but it's true.

Please ladies, don't accept 2nd best in a relationship, you only have the one life and you deserve better.  My friends partner used her for her benefit (and helped her to commit benefit fraud) it's a sad story of abuse, and we all need to be extra careful to ensure we don't let people take advantage of us because of our vulnerability.  Because of who we are...

[Jennygirl]

Wooooooowwwww Kiwi that is ssssoooooo intense. I had no idea. I can't even imagine what that would be like. I would be freaked out of my mind especially being in a foreign country where I don't know the language and cannot even talk! Agh. I'm so sorry to hear about that

When you say you weren't able to rest it until you got home, do you mean that you were talking or whispering a lot while in Seoul? I sincerely hope not, that cannot be good. Either way if you had your 1 week post op check up and Dr. Kim said you were healing well, I'm sure you'll be fine. It's hugely important not to talk or whisper at all within the first week though

Lady you need to make sure to take it easy on that voice! Rest rest rest water water water!

So sorry to hear about your friend and your trip, too. I seriously cannot even imagine.

[sarahb]

Kiwi, that's such a tragic story. I'm sorry your friend put you through that (and planned it beforehand!?!) when she knew you wouldn't be able to talk and needed support yourself. I just hope that now that you have the time you need to fully rest your voice that you won't have any problems achieving the voice you want! As Jenny said, lots of water and lots of rest!

I do hope your friend realizes that she needs to be a little more selfish and not accept a life of abuse just to be with someone. I'm glad you shared this story so that maybe it'll help someone else who may be going through a similar situation.

[abbyt89]

Jenny - Wow it's crazy the improvement you've been seeing lately! It's like you've uncovered this second wind it's so exciting!

Kiwi, I am so sorry about the whole experience! I honestly don't know how you kept yourself together through it all - I know I wouldn't have been able to. It's good that your throat doesn't feel scratchy anymore and I hope that now you are able to let your voice heal a bit better.

Alright so I have exactly two audio clips of my "feminine" voice prior to surgery.

The first recording was me reading a little paragraph from the back of a book and the pitch was at about 187hz. My old female voice was super nasally but it was the only way for me to keep my pitch up enough. The voice didn't pass at all and that was where I was at after like 4 months of voice therapy. So I re-recorded it this morning. I tried my best to keep it at around 187hz which at this point requires me to actively focus on lowering my pitch - that's why it's much quieter. But anyway you can hear how much of a difference there is between the voices even though they are pretty much at the same pitch. I also recorded it at my normal speaking voice as of today which came in at 208hz.

All three of the recordings can be heard in a row here: https://soundcloud.com/abbyev89/before-after-audrey-hepburn

And the second recording was me at Yeson. I was asked to read the rainbow passage at an elevated pitch. For me, this was about 172hz. That was the highest I could comfortably speak it and needless to say it wasn't very feminine. So again I re-recorded it this morning, trying to match 172hz. It was really hard, the best I could do was like 175hz. I also did a recording of me reading it normally which came in at about 205hz.

You can here all of those in a row here: https://soundcloud.com/abbyev89/rainbow-passage-before-and

[Jennygirl]

Sounding so great Abby!

Seems like you are taking off on the recovery, I bet if we could see a graph you'd be surpassing me when I was at your length of post-op time

[Carrie Liz]

Jenny - Wow it's crazy the improvement you've been seeing lately! It's like you've uncovered this second wind it's so exciting!

Kiwi, I am so sorry about the whole experience! I honestly don't know how you kept yourself together through it all - I know I wouldn't have been able to. It's good that your throat doesn't feel scratchy anymore and I hope that now you are able to let your voice heal a bit better.

Alright so I have exactly two audio clips of my "feminine" voice prior to surgery.

The first recording was me reading a little paragraph from the back of a book and the pitch was at about 187hz. My old female voice was super nasally but it was the only way for me to keep my pitch up enough. The voice didn't pass at all and that was where I was at after like 4 months of voice therapy. So I re-recorded it this morning. I tried my best to keep it at around 187hz which at this point requires me to actively focus on lowering my pitch - that's why it's much quieter. But anyway you can hear how much of a difference there is between the voices even though they are pretty much at the same pitch. I also recorded it at my normal speaking voice as of today which came in at 208hz.

All three of the recordings can be heard in a row here: https://soundcloud.com/abbyev89/before-after-audrey-hepburn

And the second recording was me at Yeson. I was asked to read the rainbow passage at an elevated pitch. For me, this was about 172hz. That was the highest I could comfortably speak it and needless to say it wasn't very feminine. So again I re-recorded it this morning, trying to match 172hz. It was really hard, the best I could do was like 175hz. I also did a recording of me reading it normally which came in at about 205hz.

You can here all of those in a row here: https://soundcloud.com/abbyev89/rainbow-passage-before-and

Sheesh... for a voice surgery that supposedly doesn't alter your resonance, it sure does still make a HUGE difference in the fundamental tone of one's voice. It's like all of the deeper throaty growls and the maleish vocal fry vanish, and it sounds female even when you're doing them.

Thanks, Abby. I was seriously hoping that a recording like that would surface somewhere, so that I could compare the "girl voice" pre-op versus post-op. Pretty darned good difference, if you ask me. (Gets more and more tempted to start saving money for this...)

[abbyt89]

Sounding so great Abby!

Seems like you are taking off on the recovery, I bet if we could see a graph you'd be surpassing me when I was at your length of post-op time

Thanks!

I'm not really sure where the recent jump is coming from. I was originally thinking it was the vocal exercises and getting more used to my voice and not the voice really healing all that much. But when I did these recordings this morning and realized how difficult it was to talk at 170hz it made me think that maybe physiologically there have been some changes. It wasn't too long ago where 170hz was my normal speaking voice.

You know everyone's bodies heal so differently so I'm wondering if maybe you and I are sort of at the same stage in the healing process since you've seen a pretty big bump recently too. I've seen such a big increase from my normal speaking voice that I really don't think there's much more room for me to go up.

Sheesh... for a voice surgery that supposedly doesn't alter your resonance, it sure does still make a HUGE difference in the fundamental tone of one's voice. It's like all of the deeper throaty growls and the maleish vocal fry vanish, and it sounds female even when you're doing them.

Thanks, Abby. I was seriously hoping that a recording like that would surface somewhere, so that I could compare the "girl voice" pre-op versus post-op. Pretty darned good difference, if you ask me. (Gets more and more tempted to start saving money for this...)

It really has made a difference in my resonance...part of the surgery is also thinning the vocal folds if I'm remembering correctly (Jenny can confirm). That would explain some of the change in the resonance even though size-wise all the resonating chambers haven't changed. But a lot of it could also be a psychological thing. Like having a more feminine pitch might make me subconsciously work on the resonance more. I obviously can't say for sure how much of it may be psychological, but what I do know is that my voice is completely effortless which is all that really matters to me. 

[Kiwi4Eva]

Just a couple of questions ladies...

Are you still taking the pills (for after botox wears off - 1 a night - he has given me 90)  When did you start them?  I have been told to after 3 months when the botox "wears off"

You all talk as if you know your voice range in Hz.  I haven't got a clue, but do know before it was 146.40 (Mean Frequency Yeson called it) and when did you start the voice exercises they gave us?

Sorry for all the questions but I never received the email they promised me (probably glad to see the end of me LOL)