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Yeson voice feminization surgery

Started by Jennygirl, April 22, 2013, 06:09:10 PM

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abbyt89

Wait did they not give you your patient medical record before you left? They gave me a folder with a letter from the surgeon, the results of all my tests, after-care instructions, and even a little USB thingy with video of my vocal folds pre-op.

If you didn't get that let me know and I can scan mine - it has all the information about your voice recovery.

I didn't have botox and I was instructed to take the medication (Klonopin - who knew that would somehow help your voice?) starting from one week from my surgery date. I'm still taking it - I was given a four month supply of it.

You can start the voice exercises at around 8 weeks post-op.
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Kiwi4Eva

Oh, yes they did...!

But to someone like me all that info is a bit mind boggling.

Except this bit...


Medical Certificate:

3.  Past History

SRS (+) FFS (+)

4.  Clinical Findings

Her chief complaints were low and deep voice.  He has had intermittent voice break, however she showed normal speech rhythm (etc)

Now, if you were me.  What part of that portion of the medical certificate would you be happy with?
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abbyt89

In your little folder did you get two separate instruction sheets?

One should be titled "Required Instructions after Voice Feminization Surgery" and it says:

1. For the prevention of complication and sanitary recovery of surgical region, you should not be using your voice for 7 days. Try to limit using your voice for up to 3 weeks.
2. Avoid using loud voice and whispering for up to 2 months after the operation.
3. Singing is allowed 2 to 6 months after the operation.
4. Avoid caffeinated drinks such as coffee, tea, soda, and spicy food for approximately 4 to 8 weeks. Avoid greasy and salty foods.
5. You must quit smoking and drinking for at least 3 months because any congestion or damage on the surgical area may occur.
6. Avoid lifting any heavy items and having weight training for up to 3 weeks after the surgery. Avoid swimming, playing golf or tennis, rock climbing, etc. Jogging and walking are allowed.
7. Be careful not to catch a cold.
8. Avoid clearing you throat and when coughing, just open up your mouth wide and let the air go out without making any sound.
9. Drink lots of water, about 8 cups per day.
10. Before taking any medication, see your medical specialist and receive a consultation.

They also gave me a sheet titled "Required Instructions after Botox Injection Treatment". It says:

1. You should limit your conversations and limit your voice for three weeks during the hoarseness period.
2. You may have pains or discomfort in your throat for 2-7 days.
3. Do not drink alcohol. If you drink, hoarseness will occur.
4. When you drink water, lightly bow your head down and slowly swallow water so that it wouldn't get your throat stuffy.
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Kiwi4Eva

Yes, yes...I got all those.

However, have not had any issues with swallowing water (that's after the botox I think) I just drink it normally.  :)
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anjaq

Quote from: Carrie Liz on October 28, 2013, 03:07:48 PM
Sheesh... for a voice surgery that supposedly doesn't alter your resonance, it sure does still make a HUGE difference in the fundamental tone of one's voice. It's like all of the deeper throaty growls and the maleish vocal fry vanish, and it sounds female even when you're doing them.

Thanks, Abby. I was seriously hoping that a recording like that would surface somewhere, so that I could compare the "girl voice" pre-op versus post-op. Pretty darned good difference, if you ask me. (Gets more and more tempted to start saving money for this...)
Yes I was waiting for such a recording as well. It is really a huge difference - how? IDK. I totally am amazed evenif I think the after-recordings seem to be more muffled (bad mic? voice not yet healed enough?). I will keep that monthly money transfer going to my savings account. Which is nuts because I could have it on insurance if I would do it inland but I know if I cannot fix my voice otherwise, I want to go to a place that I feel is doing good work and not stupid German doctors who dont even show their patients recordings during consultation or reply to emails asking about infos

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sarahb

Amazing difference Abby! Wow, just amazing! It's crazy how much it changes week after week during the first few months. It's like a different voice every time you post a new recording...getting higher and higher and more natural as time goes on.

So you don't even have to try or think about it with those last recordings? It just comes out that way as you speak, with no effort? Sheesh, I'm on cloud nine right now thinking that in a few weeks I'll be just starting to be able to say a couple words and will have a voice like yours!
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abbyt89

Quote from: SarahR on October 28, 2013, 08:33:42 PM
Amazing difference Abby! Wow, just amazing! It's crazy how much it changes week after week during the first few months. It's like a different voice every time you post a new recording...getting higher and higher and more natural as time goes on.

So you don't even have to try or think about it with those last recordings? It just comes out that way as you speak, with no effort? Sheesh, I'm on cloud nine right now thinking that in a few weeks I'll be just starting to be able to say a couple words and will have a voice like yours!

Thank you :) And nope, I'm not trying at all in those recordings. When I do try to raise my pitch it ends up being like 220-225hz.

And I bet you're getting so excited! Ahhh I remember being in your shoes just a few months ago and can't believe how far my voice has come since then. Before you know it you'll be a few months post-op yourself. :)
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Jennygirl

Yes yes yes!! Very excited for you Sarah!!! It's going to be so awesome!

Can I just say how amazing it is to see all of you having this surgery?! I'm so STOKED about it!!!

My rainbow readings these days are coming out at 223hz with no effort. Actually to me, it feels slightly low. When I concentrate on it a little, I'm getting exactly 245hz every time. With effort going DOWN, I am now at 213hz. I never thought in a million years that would feel low.

Abby, I think you and I are indeed on a similar track right now. I can't believe it, but today I went up yet another semitone doing the voice exercises. That puts me at G#5 / 830hz :D :D
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anjaq

Oh this sounds all too good to be real...

Quote from: abbyt89 on October 28, 2013, 08:46:25 PM
Thank you :) And nope, I'm not trying at all in those recordings. When I do try to raise my pitch it ends up being like 220-225hz.
Oh that is so cool. No effort at all? Sheesh. Thinking that I could if I go there maybe get rid of this effort that I basically thought about every single time I opened my mouth in the past 15 years - can you imagine what weight would be lifted off me if this would really work for me like that? I dont know if it will or can, but I am getting my hopes up when I read all of this.
What I found interesting was that the recordings with the "femme voice" before and the regular or lowered voice after are sounding different but not THAT different. What I mean is that if you regularly do the "femme voice" before and then after the surgery you just relax more and end up with a similar pitch that later goes up, thats perfect in terms of people slowly getting used to that change and maybe not ask too much. A friend of us did a voice change procedure however and she was really high pitched afterwards immediately. As she never did a "femme voice" before, it was quite a huge discontinuity there.
So I guess now what remains to be seen is how you all will do with volume and fullness long term (no putting the mic right next to the mouth anymore to cheat ;) LOL ).

Oh and just in case we did not say that enough: MANY THANKS to you far all these reports.  :laugh:

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Kaylee

I'm seriously considering having this done at some point in the near future (as soon as I can save the funds basically), all the results I've heard seem amazing!!!

I've worked out so far that I'll need about £5000-£5500 for surgery and flights depending on the FX rate at the time.  It shouldn't take too long to scrape together (yipee for Christmas bonuses, though I may need to sell some of my massive collection of Transformers :(). 

I was wondering what expenses are like once over in Seoul? 
Are hotels expensive, does it cost much to get about?
Do you need any sort of follow up appointment while/after healing? 
I've seen that some people have a botox injection after, what does this do?

Sorry if these questions have already been answered, but I don't have the time to read through 35+ pages of a thread!
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anjaq

Hehe, Kaylee, so they "infected" you , too. Just saying, its totally worth reading all these pages because they also contain the recovery stories and some additonal questions. And really - if you spend 5000 on this, whats a few hours of reading ;) - plus I just bookmark the thread to look for the good hotels and practical tipps in it again if I end up needing them. As I read it total expenses with surgery, hotel and flight and all are like $10000-$12000. I guess one should see it as a vacation as well - sightseeing and all that. As long as it is not too painful in the first days one might actually see something interesting. I wonder if it even pays off to fly in the area, do a vacation nearby and combine that, but I guess these expenses would be just too much. I think I could muster up the money in about 1.5-2 years, maybe sooner if I accept taking up a loan... thats rather ok. I think I will know if I need or want this in a few months after trying voice rehab training again, by then I would be at about 1/3 or so of the savings. And I bet it takes some waiting before one can get an appointment as well? Well - thinking of it, I may get very impatient if I make the decision and then have to wait another year ;) - but I need to plan this well. I cannot have this as long as I am doing lectures. So there will be very limited timeframes where I can do this as I probably cannot work 100% for at least 3 months, more like 4-5 months after it since parts of the work include to talk to students in a lecture room for an hour or so. I guess this is advisable only like 4 months post op... maybe longer? It needs the ability to speak for like 90 minutes at a decent volume. When do you think this is possible for sure, Jenny/Abby?

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Kiwi4Eva

Quote from: Kaylee on October 29, 2013, 07:27:33 AM
I'm seriously considering having this done at some point in the near future (as soon as I can save the funds basically), all the results I've heard seem amazing!!!


I was wondering what expenses are like once over in Seoul? 
Are hotels expensive, does it cost much to get about?
Do you need any sort of follow up appointment while/after healing? 
I've seen that some people have a botox injection after, what does this do?

Sorry if these questions have already been answered, but I don't have the time to read through 35+ pages of a thread!

Before we left I checked out the hotels (Seoul is huge) and we settled on an apartment through Airbnb - just google it.  An apartment, but in our case they had a building with many different apartments/choices.  For us, this was the most affordable at around $85 N.Z. per night.  You need to be there for a minimum of 9 Days but really you should stay 2 weeks.  There is a follow up with Dr Kim 7 days later.  1 day to arrive, the following day for tests, the following surgery, and then the following 7 days for follow up.

The botox injection is given after you've had surgery at the follow-up point, if your going to have it.  This is an additional $400 U.S.  I understand it is used for those of us who have tremor in our vocal chords - you'll know after he does the voice examinations on day 2.  The day after you arrive.

Taxis are wildly cheap - only 10% of the cost of what they are here.  But only take the ORANGE cabs.  The others (there are millions) don't have the same reputation, and all the orange cabs have a translation service.  We never spent more than $14 and that was for a 40 minute taxi fare!

As I think you are in pounds, you could budget for no more than $70 pounds max, per day.  And that's eating out 2 or 3 times a day, and I'm not talking Pizza Hut, but nice food, or at least seemingly up-market food outlets/restaraunts.  In saying that I'm quoting for two people.

We stayed in Gangnam.  It takes maybe 10 minutes by taxi to get to Yeson from there, and you could walk it in 13 minutes.  Be prepared to be stared at and stared through, because you are not Korean.

Seoul is huge - the biggest city I have ever been in, so you do need to have a little bit of inner compass.

I don't smoke but cigarettes are $2.70 a packet of 20.  Here they are $20

But a two litre bottle of water is $15!

There is heaps to do in Seoul.  Museums, Palaces, River Cruises, Going to the DMZ (but warning - choose a reputable tour, some are not and will rip you off)  but, you should go!

Nice if you could take someone with you...very few people speak english.  This was our biggest barrier!

But for what the surgery does, it's a short time span for such a huge result.

Go for it!
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abbyt89

Quote from: Kaylee on October 29, 2013, 07:27:33 AM
I'm seriously considering having this done at some point in the near future (as soon as I can save the funds basically), all the results I've heard seem amazing!!!

I've worked out so far that I'll need about £5000-£5500 for surgery and flights depending on the FX rate at the time.  It shouldn't take too long to scrape together (yipee for Christmas bonuses, though I may need to sell some of my massive collection of Transformers :(). 

I was wondering what expenses are like once over in Seoul? 
Are hotels expensive, does it cost much to get about?
Do you need any sort of follow up appointment while/after healing? 
I've seen that some people have a botox injection after, what does this do?

Sorry if these questions have already been answered, but I don't have the time to read through 35+ pages of a thread!

Hi Kaylee, I think I can answer some of your questions:

Expenses: Seoul overall is an expensive city, especially being in Gangnam. Most day to day things were at least as expensive as cities in the U.S. But I had no problem finding good places to eat dinner for <$15-$20 and not including lodging you can easily work with $40-$50 a day.

Hotels/Getting Around: As Kiwi said you can always use AirBnB to rent somebody's apartment. This will typically be cheaper than a hotel with more space but none of the amenities that come with a hotel. However, the hotels weren't as expensive as I thought they would be in Gangnam. I stayed in a suite with kitchen and washer/dryer for <$150 a night at a 4 star hotel. There were plenty of nice looking but cheaper hotels in the area for <$100. As far as getting around, their metro is really clean and efficient. I used it a lot for 10 days and I think I spent less than $15-$20 the whole time. Taxi's are also cheap. My hotel was about 3km from Yeson and even with heavy traffic the fare was never more than ~$8.

Follow-up: You have a one week follow-up appointment during your stay. This is why your trip has to be at least ~10 days long. They recommend you see a laryngologist within the first year of your surgery but they didn't stress this to me as being important. Most Koreans that have the surgery just go back to Yeson since a second follow up within a year is included in the surgery cost.

Botox: If you have a vocal tremor they may recommend Botox. The reason Dr. Kim gave me was that even a slight tremor can be sort of "magnified" once the vocal folds are shortened. In my case my existing tremor was very minor so I was just prescribed a medication to help with it. I haven't noticed any issues with a vocal tremor and didn't notice any before surgery either.

Edit: And yeah, if you do decide to go through with the surgery it's definitely worth reading the whole thread. A lot of great information!

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anjaq

I have another question - what is the deal with the vocal tremor - can you feel or notice it beforehand and what is the problem with it - if it is botoxed, it will only go away for some time and then come back, right? Will it have a negative effect then later on?

And another one - do you or Jenny consider going to Yeson for the followup? What is done at the followup - anything important or anything like some corrections that may be needed? If it is just a checkup with no procedures, I guess there is no need to go to Yeson, but a checkup is usually only done if there is a chance that some thigns will be noticed at that time that require intervention - in that case I guess Yeson would be the right place to find out if that is so and what to do (and do it)? It probably would be a financial issue - another flight, 2 hotel nights at least etc - so its the question if that would be worth considereing or not. Does he give instructions to other doctors in your own country as to what to check for at that followup?

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Kaylee

Thanks for the info guys, really appreciate it.

Definitely gonna go for it I think.  I can normally pass quite well nowadays (I hope anyway, I had a friend that I'd not seen in a while try and introduce themselves the other day!) but get given away as soon as I open my mouth :(

I have quite a deep voice naturally, which is exacerbated by a thick Teesside/Yorkshire accent, not a lot of vocal control, always feel a bit silly trying to do voice practice at home and always forget to try and maintain it when I'm with friends (or when a little bit tipsy!), it'd be good to not have the option of slipping into a gruff male voice.

Time to get saving I suppose!
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Paige0000

Alright so after doing some emailing with Jessie I've decided to definitely pursue this surgery (will get a trachea shave too, though only the notch so as not to risk affecting my surgery). I plan on getting it done jan or Feb next year so I have a bit of planning to do (Getting a Passport, booking accommodations, flights etc). Now a bit of an obstacle is that I'll need a parents birth certificate to qualify for a passport in Australia. Have to think about obtaining this as I doubt my parents will be compliant to give it to me. Hmm.
Be yourself regardless of what other may think of you. Tis your life not theirs. :)
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anjaq

Kaylee - I understand that totally. I just saw the first money trickle in to my savings account ;) - Though I am not sure if you have not a lot of vocal control if the surgery will really do what you hope? As I understood it, it only increases average pitch basically by cutting off the lower ranges. You still need to train to speak inthe new range and you still need to control your voice for resonances (the "gruffy" part of the voice). Isnt that so? This is why I want to do proper voice training first to be able to get a good voice "by willpower and training" alone and only want to do the surgery if I find I cannot maintain it, loose it in some situations, find it too much of an effort etc. And I think this will be so. But I somehow expect that this would help me to later control that new voice as well as it still has to be controlled as I understand it, but that this should be a lot easier then. Please correct or affirm me there, Jenny and Abby?

On the "homefront" I get a lot of "flak" (is that how you say it in american military speech? ;) ) for considering VFS. Two of my closest friends are supportive if this is what I feel that I need to do (even though they say they will miss my voice as it supposedly is "attractive, sonorous and calming"). Others just think it is a bad idea and even the two say that I am risking something there - to get pitch up too high as a result or to get breathy (as this was the result of two friends of them who had the Y-suture). I tried to get into local TG support groups online but they are like 99% bombarding me with warnings there. Some claim that Dr Thomas in Portland would be the only one who can do a good result - I read on his procedure and it is massively invasive. But most just say that 99% of TS women made it with training, so why should I be different. I dont know. Maybe I am, maybe I am not, maybe for some of them its not important, maybe some of them just dont care if they are seen as TS - I have no idea why I as one of a very few TS out there in the world want to do VFS and not just be content with doing voice training. But its in my head, so lets see where it goes. What I did not get was - I pointed them to the yeson youtube channel to check the recordings, I also linked to posts here that had the long term recordings in them. It did not convince them - they claimed that the results were ok but not great and that with voice training they could do better - I dont get it - I find the recodings here nothing short but amazing. Yes, some voice training results are totally amazing too, but I dont think that invalidates the option discussed here. I think this may just be a certain bias there. Interestingly the same people vehemently are in facour of FFS and suggested 5 different procedures there for me, shocking me to bits with it. 

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barbie

Quote from: Kiwi4Eva on October 29, 2013, 03:25:50 PM
Taxis are wildly cheap - only 10% of the cost of what they are here.  But only take the ORANGE cabs.  The others (there are millions) don't have the same reputation, and all the orange cabs have a translation service.  We never spent more than $14 and that was for a 40 minute taxi fare!

As I think you are in pounds, you could budget for no more than $70 pounds max, per day.  And that's eating out 2 or 3 times a day, and I'm not talking Pizza Hut, but nice food, or at least seemingly up-market food outlets/restaraunts.  In saying that I'm quoting for two people.

We stayed in Gangnam.  It takes maybe 10 minutes by taxi to get to Yeson from there, and you could walk it in 13 minutes.  Be prepared to be stared at and stared through, because you are not Korean.

Seoul is huge - the biggest city I have ever been in, so you do need to have a little bit of inner compass.

I don't smoke but cigarettes are $2.70 a packet of 20.  Here they are $20

But a two litre bottle of water is $15!

Visiting Seoul is not so much challenging.

I am also tired of being stared here everyday. Some people study my face  more than 1 min. This is the same in foreign countries. Recently I visited Germany, Slovenia, Finland, Russia, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Japan and Canada. The only places where people did not stare at me so much were Japan and Canada.

Young Koreans are generally more fluent in English, and workers in hotels can help you in translation.

For ordinary tax, if you pronounce the destination in Korean clearly, then most taxi drivers will understand it and take you there. Or you can show the driver a map or a memo on the destination written in Korean, which workers in hotels can prepare for you. Drivers can not cheat you, because the fee is displayed in the meter.

Or, you have a phone or others can make a call for you, you can call a taxi and they will come within a few minutes. The prices is nearly the same.
http://www.korea4expats.com/article-call-reserve-taxi-seoul.html
I usually call a taxi, rather than waiting in the street.

Transportation cost within Korea is far cheaper than other countries, because the government severely regulates the fees. For example, from Seoul to Jeju island by plane, taking about 1 hour, it costs < US$100, and you can take one every 5 mins. From Seoul to Busan, by the express train, taking about 2.5 hours for ca. 400 km = 250 mile, it costs about US$50, and you can take it every 15 minutes. You can travel to other cities or places in Korea with far cheaper budget.

For comparison, in Canada, they asked ca. US$400 for just a 20 min. trip from Vancouver to Nanaimo by the small plane. It was cancelled from the dense fog, and I took a ferry from Nanaimo to Vancouver at ca. US$15. And, I paid Canada $90 to the Vancouver airport by the taxi, including the tip.

In Seoul, I can have nice breakfast or lunch at a minimum of ca. US$ 3, but mostly US$ 7-8.

Water bottles are not not so much expensive. They cost about US$ 1 at convenient stores (at my home town, it costs about US$ 0.5).

Hotels in Seoul are mostly expensive. I can search and find for affordable hotels < US$50, but I would not recommend these hotels to you. Most hotels in Seoul are old, except those in Gangnam. In Gangnam, the minimum cost is about US$80 per night. This is nearly the same as in New York Manhattan. But the hotel prices in Seoul are less expensive than Helsinki or Saint Petersburg, Russia, I am sure. When I was in a Marriott hotel at Okinawa, Japan, I paid ca. US$300 per night, even though it was winter, not a high-demand season. And, two weeks ago in Nanaimo, Canada, I paid US$ 75 per night, although it was the cheapest one in the area.

Cigarette is cheaper than other countries, but beer and wine are more expensive in Seoul, because of absurdly higher tax on alcohol products. I like Korean traditional rice wine, but it is very difficult to find nice Makeolli bottles in Seoul: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makgeolli  It is cheaper and above all very nice for your health.

barbie~~
Just do it.
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Paige0000

Oh I was wondering is payment paid in advance for surgery or is the bill sent to you post op?
Be yourself regardless of what other may think of you. Tis your life not theirs. :)
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Kiwi4Eva

Quote from: Paige0000 on November 05, 2013, 12:58:36 AM
Oh I was wondering is payment paid in advance for surgery or is the bill sent to you post op?

Are you serious?

Your bill will be required to be paid about 3 weeks in advance (as mine was) and you may even be asked to pay again (as I was) before I pointed out I had paid my bill in full.

I would be very surprised if you were ever given the opportunity to pay off your account, although I was for a procedure in my own country, however the surgeon was not aware of my "status" and treated me with the respect most other people in society enjoy.  I did pay off my bill...
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