Yeson voice feminization surgery

[sarahb]

Sorry for posting more recordings - I know it's a lot!! But I've been doing a lot of work with my voice today and have two different voices at a pretty big difference in pitch (~20hz) and I'm curious what you think sounds better.

Message: http://vocaroo.com/i/s1HM6f6XAov2

Voice 1 (205hz): http://vocaroo.com/i/s0JzL23LqAVz

Voice 2 (185hz): http://vocaroo.com/i/s1PwDIsek91Z

To be honest, I think the biggest change I notice in all three of these recordings is your change in inflection, which I think has made all three of these recording sound better than any of your other ones. Your previous recordings would have good resonance and pitch, but the inflection would seem a little exaggerated at times. In these recordings they are more natural sounding. Also, I don't hear a guy in any of these recordings so I wouldn't even be worrying about that, lol. I would say focus most of your time on honing in on a natural inflection like you have here and you'll likely be able to choose either pitch and it'll sound perfect.

Really, Abby, it's sounding great as you're perfecting each area of your voice! Keep these recordings coming, I'm loving it :-)

[Shantel]

Sorry for posting more recordings - I know it's a lot!! But I've been doing a lot of work with my voice today and have two different voices at a pretty big difference in pitch (~20hz) and I'm curious what you think sounds better.

Message: http://vocaroo.com/i/s1HM6f6XAov2

Voice 1 (205hz): http://vocaroo.com/i/s0JzL23LqAVz

Voice 2 (185hz): http://vocaroo.com/i/s1PwDIsek91Z

Abby,
    I like them all but the last one sounds more natural and perhaps if it is more natural sounding to you and feels easier and more natural for you to speak in that tone then that is obviously where you should be. There is nothing male in any of the recordings and I do prefer the last one.

[abbyt89]

@Kiwi: Yeah, that's what I'm trying to do lol, it's not really working too well. It's just the kind of person I am, I tend to obsess over things. But like I said in my recording I'm trying to stop worrying about the actual pitch of my voice. I am still doing my vocal exercises every day but I stopped keeping track of all the readings that I do.

@Sarah: Thanks, these recordings are definitely most in line with how I talk in real life so it's good to hear that the inflection and such is great. And yeah, that's my main focus now - just kind of refining my voice.

@Shan: Thanks I think I prefer the lower pitch as long as it doesn't sound more male or anything because I just feel like it fits me better I guess? I dunno, but going into the voice surgery the one thing I wanted to avoid was something that was way too high.

[Shantel]

@Shan: Thanks I think I prefer the lower pitch as long as it doesn't sound more male or anything because I just feel like it fits me better I guess? I dunno, but going into the voice surgery the one thing I wanted to avoid was something that was way too high.

Good plan, that's the way I would go too, it sounds remarkably female so go with it. Maybe is you were a little 5' 2" thing with a tweety bird boney little chest the higher pitch would be fine, but it would seem unnatural coming out of you given what I've seen of you in that lovely full length photo you put up awhile back.

[anjaq]

I think the 185 Hz recording is great - and I think if you can do this more or less effortless, this is the best way to go. After all why would you want to go though all the stress about having a VFS if afterwards you still are putting too much effort into maintaining an even higher pitch. At least fo me the main goal of this whole thing if I would do it would be to not give a bleep anymore about pitch and just focus on sounding clear (meaning no odd resonances that do not fit).
I also think that all of these recordings sound very female - not overly feminine, but thats not the goal - the goal was to sound female and that is working out fine - Interestingly I think that for some reason even if you drop down to some chest resonance, it still does sound female and I wonder how this is working really -is Yeson doing something more than just working on the pitch - some magic that he does not tell anyone

[Shantel]

I wonder how this is working really -is Yeson doing something more than just working on the pitch - some magic that he does not tell anyone

Perhaps you're up for a trip to Korea soon Anjaq?

[Jennygirl]

After what Dr. Kim said to me, it is my understanding that you still have to train the voice to access the higher pitches. Without any training, the natural tendency is to keep it at the low range (still sounds female though)

For most of us, I think the low range will be enough. But you can always train it higher to take full advantage.

I do kind of a mix... It's situational. Having access to the higher pitches (especially for speaking up!) seems like a good idea.

That's one thing I need to practice more... speaking up. Sometimes when I speak loudly it still sounds a bit on the male side of androgynous or almost like my voice is getting tired. I presume it's all because of how long it takes the vocal cords to adjust and re-tighten. It's certainly getting better at times. I noticed that if I have more than one alcoholic beverage, the next morning is kind of a sh** show when it comes to pitch. Sooo hard to access those higher frequencies. In November I cut back my alcohol intake drastically and I've been much happier with my voice as a result.

[sarahb]

I can definitely see it taking practice to reach the higher frequencies as it would be so unfamiliar.

[anjaq]

After what Dr. Kim said to me, it is my understanding that you still have to train the voice to access the higher pitches. Without any training, the natural tendency is to keep it at the low range (still sounds female though)

Interesting. Well I would have assumed that you can access the higher pitches with voice training alone as well (without surgery)? I guess using higher pitches situationally yes that is probably something to do, but I think to have some way to not drop too much is also good. From what I heard with you, even the lowest range is still female, right?

That's one thing I need to practice more... speaking up. Sometimes when I speak loudly it still sounds a bit on the male side of androgynous or almost like my voice is getting tired. I presume it's all because of how long it takes the vocal cords to adjust and re-tighten.

Oh ok - thats not great then - on the male side really just from speaking up? How come? Is it about resonance or does your pitch drop at these situations as well? It will be interesting to know how things will be when you are fully healed. Up to now you all can put off any flaws you still have (like not enough loudness, projection, pitch increase) on the timetable of healing more. I hope that it will all sort out and in half a year or so you can tell us that those things really went away (and prove all the doubters in my country wrong who claim that after a VFS one still will sound male at times and one does not have as much loudness as before)

I noticed that if I have more than one alcoholic beverage, the next morning is kind of a sh** show when it comes to pitch. Sooo hard to access those higher frequencies. In November I cut back my alcohol intake drastically and I've been much happier with my voice as a result.

Oh no - that was one of the situations I have in my list of time when I was thinking to need VFS as my voice drops now when I am drunk

Perhaps you're up for a trip to Korea soon Anjaq?

Dont you push that topic also - Jenny and Sarah are already convinced that I will go for sure - more than me being convinced that I will spend the money i am saving up now actually on doing this and not on some nice vacation instead if I manage to get this fixed without VFS ...

[sarahb]

Oh and Jenny, I highly doubt you sound male in those situations Maybe a lower frequency, but from what I've heard you cannot sound male. Even when you use a lower frequency you just sound like a girl doing a lower pitch.

[Jennygirl]

anjac- I think it's a matter of more practice and more strength in my vocal cords to be able to keep up with talking loudly. I'm technically only halfway through to a full recovery so I'm not at all worried about it.

Oh and Jenny, I highly doubt you sound male in those situations Maybe a lower frequency, but from what I've heard you cannot sound male. Even when you use a lower frequency you just sound like a girl doing a lower pitch.

True true, I don't think it sounds full male- there's no way. I guess just constantly comparing my voice to cis women has made me realize that when speaking up girls voices to get way up there with no effort at all. If I've been doing a bunch of talking it seems to be harder to keep it in the 260-300hz range where I want to be. Compared to even a month ago, it is already way better. Just have to keep practicing and building vocal strength back.

[anjaq]

If I've been doing a bunch of talking it seems to be harder to keep it in the 260-300hz range where I want to be. Compared to even a month ago, it is already way better. Just have to keep practicing and building vocal strength back.

Ok, but that 260 Hz plus range is more like exceptional short moments right, single words and such. What I do when I go from my regular 150 Hz up to 190 or so for some words... I am really interested in getting to know how your strength is developing. It is one thing most people who warned me about doing VFS will say as an argument to not do it - that vocal strength is not as good as it was pre op. I dont think they have to be right and Dr Gross who did the Y-suture and followed the results and found a diminished vocal strength in all his patiens except one who had a low strength pre op anyways - that was after less than a year I think and he wrote that it can be improved with more exercises.

[Jennygirl]

Well if it comes down to choosing a weaker voice compared to a passable voice, I choose the weaker voice. Personally mine does not feel any weaker.. Quite the contrary especially in the 180-250hz range.

Last night I went to a burlesque party and it was a true test. My voice did wonderfully all night and passed to everyone that didn't already know I am trans. I even got a few cute guys' numbers But this morning, I was in a state of recovery from all of the yelling over the music. A gentle vocal warm up + a bit of water and I'm already almost back to normal. A month ago, my voice would have been gone all through the day after speaking so loudly. It takes time to rebuild the strength + endurance.

Either way, it feels like it's getting there in terms of stamina. Even when my voice is a bit tired from a heavy vocal workout the night before (like it is now), it still passes and doesn't sound raspy or quiet at all.

[voodle]

I regret posting here

[sarahb]

@voodle Umm, to me your voice sounds really good in all three post-op recordings. Yeah, the pitch is lower in the second post-op one but it still sounds naturally female to me. I think we need to stop focusing just on the frequency after surgery and go after a natural sounding voice instead. Abby has been making some breakthroughs in this regard lately as well, in my opinion. Really, your post-op recordings make me even more excited about my results if that voice is a disappointment for you, haha.

[voodle]

I regret posting here

[Jennygirl]

What what how can you be unhappy with that result? Lol

You sound fantastic in these recordings. All of them, actually- even your pre op.

I don't know whether it's the difference in accent or what, but you sound completely female to me.

Neat that you were there in May- you and I are basically on the same recovery timetable. I'm sorry to hear that you aren't happy with your result, though. Were you expecting a much higher pitch?

My voice is constantly fluctuating in pitch capability and sometimes it feels as if it's going down. I think that's definitely a big mental part of the game.

I've done quite a lot of thinking about it, and I've come up with a possibility that seems to make sense. Granted, not every person will recover the same way.

Pre op, you start out with a low voice that you must focus and work with to maintain a high pitch. You are used to bringing your pitch up and fighting with it.

Immediately post op (when you are able to first talk) you have very limited range- almost monotone. Mentally, you become used to being able to relax your vocal cords because you have such limited range anyway.

Long into recovery (approaching 6 months) the range of your new voice starts to widen again as the vocal cords heal and adjust to their new shape (increased range both up AND down). Mentally this could create an issue... Maybe due to having such limited range for so long, the mind becomes lazy with applying the needed tension to sit well within the ideal part of new range. So instead, you revert back to using a lower, more familiar/relaxed pitch which is actually the very bottom end of your range.

I do find myself doing that sometimes.. Especially when talking to people like my mom over the phone for instance. It's weird. Sometimes I'll record my voice while talking to her and I sink it down to 175-180hz. She has a VERY dynamic speaking voice, though- and most of the time it's much lower than mine unless she is shrieking about something

[anjaq]

I can see why voodle was disappointed. As I understand it, all the voices in these recordings are basically with some voice training lessons applied, so i guess it is harder to judge what surgery did improve and what changed due to voice training.
I think in terms of the surgery though, it is quite ok to focus on the pitch. This is after all the main reason for this surgery - to increase pitch. All the other qualities are dony by the voice training and can be done without the surgery as well, right? So if i only would get a 20 Hz increase in pitch from such an expensive and straineous procedure, I would also feel a bit disappointed. I wonder one thing though - to get to the same pitch as before the surgery, do you have to put as much effort into that now, voodle? Because that is what I am thinking here - if you have a lower voice that is not changed by voice training (relaxed voice) and then usually do a changed voice at a higher pitch with resonance control and all that - but it takes an effort to do so. And then you have the surgery and speak in the same range as that second, higher, but not effortless voice, but this time you do not need to put effort into it - is that what happens? Or is it still as hard to get to that pitch range as pre-op?

[voodle]

I regret posting here

[Jennygirl]

voodle- that's great to hear that you've made some progress!

I'm very curious to know what your maximum range is currently, from lowest possible frequency to the highest that you can produce?