Yeson voice feminization surgery

[Jennygirl]

So nice that you were there to meet up with her, you both looked so good, she's just a doll face isn't she Barbie?

I have to agree, major doll face!

[megan2929]

Hi Megan,

Is your post-op exam this Wednesday? Hope recovery is going well. How many days after the exam are you staying?

I was curious how many days most stayed after the exam. Jessie told me I could leave the next day. I thought I might stay a few extra days just in case.

Thanks for your previous reply too.

Michelle

Hi Michelle, I left the day after the checkup. I was a little worried about that too, just in case they discovered something but luckily it was all fine and Dr. Kim said it was healing great so there was no problem with me leaving the next day. I've updated my other post with more details: https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,157812.0.html

I have to agree, major doll face!

*chubby and round (but thanks!) - All you ladies are gorgeous!

[Laurelin]

So I went through the whole thread in one go! I decided on getting this done thanks to jenny&abby for sharing their experiences and amazing voices

I have a few questions and I dont want to start a new thread

1-I somehow survived puberty without much T damage, I dont have a visible adams apple and people say that my voice is already in gender ambiguous territory. I did the analyze thing with praat and seems like I am somewhere between 160hz -170hz. I read the case where dr kim denied surgery to a patient because of a female sized voice box. Can I get the surgery with this pitch or am I doomed to get stuck in this place?

2-I have been practicing my voice for the last month using the kathe perez mp3 voice tutor, I am currently focusing on resonance but seems like I cant really get the whole "raise your larynx" thing, I cant even check with my hand because the thing is sized like a small peanut and easily disappears when I open my mouth. Can I have a passable voice just with surgery or do I need to get this whole resonance thing down at some point. I just want to speak without effort.

[AmyBerlin]

1-I somehow survived puberty without much T damage, I dont have a visible adams apple and people say that my voice is already in gender ambiguous territory. I did the analyze thing with praat and seems like I am somewhere between 160hz -170hz. I read the case where dr kim denied surgery to a patient because of a female sized voice box. Can I get the surgery with this pitch or am I doomed to get stuck in this place?

I don't have a visible Adam's apple either. That seems quite common. However, it doesn't say anything about your voice box. A good predictor what vocal range you are is usually not the frequency you speak at, but the lowest pitch you can comfortably reach. If you can make a sound at 100 Hz or below that, I'd say, you definitely have a male voice box. But in any case I'd alert Jessie to that so she can give you proper counseling what to do best in your case.

2-I have been practicing my voice for the last month using the kathe perez mp3 voice tutor, I am currently focusing on resonance but seems like I cant really get the whole "raise your larynx" thing, I cant even check with my hand because the thing is sized like a small peanut and easily disappears when I open my mouth. Can I have a passable voice just with surgery or do I need to get this whole resonance thing down at some point. I just want to speak without effort.

If your larynx sort of disappears while you speak, it might just be you're already raising it, which is good. Dr. Kim's surgery only works on pitch, not on resonance, so you might still need to work on that. Remember to keep your larynx up and your jaw relaxed and you should be good to go.

Amy

[Laurelin]

The lowest note I can make is g2 and I cant go down from there so maybe I have hope after all ^^
I still have time since I plan to fulltime in january next year and I plan to have the surgery right before that, getting in contact with jessie seems to be the best idea

I am just afraid, going all the way to korea with my hopes up than getting denied would be soul crushing for me

Thanks for helping

[AmyBerlin]

Hi Laurelin,

The lowest note I can make is g2 and I cant go down from there so maybe I have hope after all ^^

g2 is definitely male territory. Not the lowest of male voices, but a male voice, definitely. Most women bottom out somewhere between b2-f3.

My pre-operative bottom is e2, just a minor third lower than you, and I'm a baritone. So I'd guess, you're a tenor, plain and simple.

Regards,

Amy

[sad panda]

Hi Laurelin,

g2 is definitely male territory. Not the lowest of male voices, but a male voice, definitely. Most women bottom out somewhere between b2-f3.

My pre-operative bottom is e2, just a minor third lower than you, and I'm a baritone. So I'd guess, you're a tenor, plain and simple.

Regards,

Amy

How do you know what your lowest is?? You just hum and go the lowest you can without it breaking up? If that is C3 does that mean my voice should be female range?

[Laurelin]

Hi Laurelin,

g2 is definitely male territory. Not the lowest of male voices, but a male voice, definitely. Most women bottom out somewhere between b2-f3.

My pre-operative bottom is e2, just a minor third lower than you, and I'm a baritone. So I'd guess, you're a tenor, plain and simple.

Regards,

Amy

thanks! you gave me much needed hope

so another question, the surgery raises pitch by around 75hz right? I am already at 160-170hz so it will put me at around  235-245hz. Is it too high or squeaky? I dont know anything about voice so I dont know the female range is. should I be worried about being to high or is this a good spot?

[AmyBerlin]

Hi Sad Panda, Laurelin,

How do you know what your lowest is?? You just hum and go the lowest you can without it breaking up? If that is C3 does that mean my voice should be female range?

Just use a simple vowel ("aaah" works nicely) and let your voice drop. The last note (it might be soft) before the sound becomes choppy and/or raspy is what I'm referring to.

thanks! you gave me much needed hope

Well, wouldn't it have been better the other way around, if your voice was already female? Then you'd save yourself the expense and hassle!

so another question, the surgery raises pitch by around 75hz right? I am already at 160-170hz so it will put me at around  235-245hz. Is it too high or squeaky? I dont know anything about voice so I dont know the female range is. should I be worried about being to high or is this a good spot?

I wouldn't worry one bit about that. First of all, the technique is tuneable, so if he'll suture up a smaller section of vocal cord, the change won't be as drastic. And 235-245 Hz is only about 2-3 semitones above average, so that's not a whole lot, anyway. The question is rather, is 160-170 Hz your relaxed speaking pitch or is it the trained "feminine inflection" that we all use? You should measure up 75 Hz from relaxed speaking pitch. In my case, the difference between the two is rather drastic, relaxed speaking pitch is 130 Hz, and "trained feminine" is 195 Hz on average.


Regards,

Amy

[anjaq]

If 170 Hz is the relaxed speaking voice, I would not really do the surgery. I mean that is just 30 Hz away from a average femal voice or so. So it is slightly under average, if you just do a tiny bit - if you have not done resonance control which you should do anyways then doing so will automatically increase this by 20 Hz or so - then you are well in a good female range while speaking relaxed - what else do you need. Of course if 170 Hz is the trained elevated voice, something which I cannot do at the moment anymore but which I did for a while some years back, then you should go to the relaxed voice for analysis. mine is at about 130-140, my goal would actually be 180-200

[Laurelin]

Well, wouldn't it have been better the other way around, if your voice was already female? Then you'd save yourself the expense and hassle!

what I am afraid of is getting stuck in a place where my voice isnt male or female >_< at least there is hope to get it fixed with surgery this way

I wouldn't worry one bit about that. First of all, the technique is tuneable, so if he'll suture up a smaller section of vocal cord, the change won't be as drastic. And 235-245 Hz is only about 2-3 semitones above average, so that's not a whole lot, anyway. The question is rather, is 160-170 Hz your relaxed speaking pitch or is it the trained "feminine inflection" that we all use? You should measure up 75 Hz from relaxed speaking pitch. In my case, the difference between the two is rather drastic, relaxed speaking pitch is 130 Hz, and "trained feminine" is 195 Hz on average.

160-170hz is my relaxed speaking pitch, here is a sample

https://soundcloud.com/arya-lyrical/untitled

I have been training my voice for the past month and seems like I can easily reach 210-220hz but I still cant do the resonance thing so my voice sounds kinda weird >_< here is another sample at 218hz

https://soundcloud.com/arya-lyrical/9-march-2014

[anjaq]

If I were you, I would, before planning any surgery, work on the resonance and infelction and all that other stuff. It is well possible that if you get these things working, which do not change with surgery anyways, your voice could be naturally female sounding. If it does not, you still can add surgery to increase pitch a bit, but I personally think that the main issue is those other parameters. I would try to invest some money in a good personal voice training and/or do some of the online courses, but since these are two different things - surgery/pitch and resonance/inflection/melody and both have to be adressed independently, you should not be held back by the thought of having surgery from training those other things. If you can reach 220 Hz *easily*, you are already way into female range there and this is all that surgery could do for you, bring you in that range - it cannot correct the other issues, so focus on them first. The only thing I heard about resonance in terms of surgery is Dr Thomas - he seems to try to adress this issue as well in patients who absolutely cannot do that by themselves, but his procedure is very invasive.

[Jennygirl]

Laurelin- You will benefit from this surgery in my opinion. I wouldn't have any worry at all about it being too high. My relaxed pitch as recorded at the pre-op exam was 142hz

[alexiakk]

So recently, I've contacted Dr. Kim again regarding this surgery, and he said if I insisted on cutting my lower range he can perform it for me 

Hey Jenny, do you mind if I ask some questions? [please]~~

So you were singing soprano in church for Christmas, and I'm kinda wondering how you feel about singing after VFS. Do you also sound like females when singing? Or only speaking? Do you still have to "mimic" in singing after VFS otherwise it still sounds like a male? How dramatic is the change in timbre (and range) to you from "baritone" to "alto"  ?

Thanks~~ I'm looking forward to visit Yeson again 

[jayme-h]

Hi Jenny,
I'm not usually one to post a lot on forums. I found this thread while doing more research this morning on Yeson. I've been impressed with their work for some time. Anyway to make a long story short. After reading eight pages of the thread I couldn't wait any longer and was able to find your Yeson video on the Web. I have to say that not only is your new voice amazing but the visual presentation between the pre-operative stage, the two month stage and the seven month stage is also amazing. You are a very beautiful young lady and the world is blessed to have you in it.

Jayme

[Jennygirl]

Sorry I haven't checked these threads in a while! Apologies!

Thank you so much Jayme! That is really nice of you to say and I hope the video helped with your research Yeson has asked me to do another video at the year mark so you can expect another one!

@Alexia
The change in timbre is very noticeable. In fact I was singing a little bit on my way home from work tonight, doing some upper harmonies to male vocals. It was really fun. I hadn't sung in a while, but I still have just as much control over my voice intonation-wise as before. As well my head voice sounds a lot different, like it is more centered and not like falsetto at all. Granted, I was singing very softly.

Congratulations on getting the go-ahead from Dr. Kim

[alexiakk]

Jenny, thank you a lot 

I'm so relieved to hear that the timbre will also change as my biggest worry is that I just become a "male with high voice" after the surgery

Going to see Dr. Kim again in July 

[Boca.Lisa]

Jenny, Sorry if I'm hijacking your thread but I think this is relevant and really importaint.

This is a question to all the Post op VFS Girls.

I wanted to ask everyone the following for clarification. Jessie said, "Normal conversation after 30 days" but Dr. Kim said, "The most significant change is at 60 days and to stay silent as close to that as possible". Jen, Sarah and Abby have all posted voice clips at 30 days which sounded significantly different than their pre-op voice and very similar to their 60 day voice. I've texted with ExpressGirl and Jenn90210 who were both in Korea when I was there. Jenn90210 has begun speaking and has seen significant change in her voice at near 30 days while ExpressGirl's result appears more like Megan, who at 30 days was feeling the result was less than desired. I am only 23 days post and have said only a word or 2 which to me sounds the same as my pre-op voice suggesting I've not benefitted much. (yes that makes me nervous and a bit sad)

Can everyone comment on how long until they returned to general conversation and when the most noticeable change took place.

We are all so hopeful to have a wonderful result but it seems like there are a couple of recently post 30 day girls who are not seeing significant changes and as you can imaging its a bit nerve wrecking.

Thanks a bunch!!!

[Jennygirl]

Both Jessie and Dr. Kim will tell you that with some people it can take up to 2 months to notice any difference at all. This is due to swelling of the vocal cords from surgery. Some people get rid of the swelling faster than others. Drinking a TON of water will help with this as well as staying away from overly salty/sweet/spicy/greasy foods.

Something that a lot of people miss is that I was talking extremely quietly while using my voice at around the month mark. Like, almost a whisper. If I would have pushed it any more than that it probably would have been lower.

Stick with it, and do not give up hope. Also keep in mind you will have to retrain your brain to access the higher pitches instead of just using the relaxed lower register that you used to have. This will take many months if you hadn't already assimilated a female voice pre-op.

Never give up hope. I'm sure that Dr. Kim did a wonderful job. If he showed you the post surgical result and your vocal cords have been successfully shortened, there's not really any chance of not noticing a difference once things are healed. It's physics!

[Jennygirl]

And don't feel bad, you're not hijacking at all