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Yeson voice feminization surgery

Started by Jennygirl, April 22, 2013, 06:09:10 PM

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0 Members and 33 Guests are viewing this topic.

anjaq

Sounds great Jenny :) - My voice sucks after an evening out without surgery, so if that would stay, its not a difference :P ;)
But I think it may depend on the healing. Some seem to heal less quickly and take a longer time, others are really fast.

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voodle

Quote from: anjaq on October 29, 2014, 07:08:38 PM
Hey voodle. How did things turn out for you. Its a long time now since VFS. Did everything really turn out good in the end and how is the voice now? Effortless and feminine as it should be?

haha well, I'm happy with my voice now in that I'm not getting misgendered on the phone so much and it works how I want it to and I'm more comfortable with how I sound, I guess my voice sounds feminine though it's hardly effortless since my brain keeps putting it back to the wrong voice if I don't do some occasional practise to keep the tone in the right place. I was scared a few months ago because I got quite ill and a bad coughing fit put my pitch back to what it was prior to the surgery but it seems to have gone back up again. I talked to Jessie and considered visiting Korea again so they could have a look but I don't have the money at the moment, nor enough money to go see a speech therapist; fitting it in around work and the cost of the initial consultation, I have other cash priorities at the moment.

The clonazepam also improved my voice quite a bit but I had to stop taking it for medical reasons and it ran out and I had to re-learn how to sound good after that, which I think I've done so now :) 

Quote
I can imagine that due to the "pocket" under the sutured area, there can be some more phlegm collecting?

The phlegm thing is weird and I don't know who to talk to about it. I see it being like that but I wonder if I've even healed up 100%? It's hard to tell really.
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Rachelicious

Since the membrane Dr. Kim removes is a mucous membrane, it could be that other parts of the body have to compensate for moistening the vocal folds. You could start with getting scoped and mention that.
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anjaq

Quote from: voodle on October 30, 2014, 06:16:37 AM
I guess my voice sounds feminine though it's hardly effortless since my brain keeps putting it back to the wrong voice if I don't do some occasional practise to keep the tone in the right place.
Ok, but that is more about sound and resonance? Pitch should be changed now without effort, right?

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voodle

Yep, the pitch has settled upwards definitely, I was checking this last night and it seems that no effort talking seems to be around 220hz average with how I speak now and me trying to speak as low as I can (which was weird), is around 160hz. I suppose maybe I just take quite a long time to heal up from things.
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anjaq

Sounds perfect. 220 Hz is the goal for many. If that goes effortless and 160 is the lowest, this is probably beyond the 75 Hz Dr Kim says, or was it 150 Hz average in relaxed mode pre op?

The other things - resonance/tone and way of speaking/prosody - I think you will get used to it so it becomes second nature with time. As you dont need the effort now to also raise pitch, I would guess it may even be a bit easier now for you to get these right than pre op.

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ElleA

Hi ladies,

I had a quick question about those of you who have had a pre and post op video posted by Yeson to youtube.

Did they ask you if this was ok first and did you get some kind of kickback for it, eg. money or discount to the surgery?

Just curious...  ;)
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Jennygirl

I did a video just for the heck of it because I saw the somewhat unknown procedure (at the time) as something that a lot of people might benefit from.. and with the sole intention of sharing how it changed my life. If I remember correctly, it was after about a month that Jessie contacted me and offered me some money back if they could use the video on their website. I was ecstatic that they liked it so much to want to use it as part of their portfolio, but never expected anything back except for a thank you. Then they offered me another bonus for a year post op video (which I still haven't done yet).

I actually recorded one the other night, but it was late and I floundered around  in some of my responses to the questions when my cat decided to puke right in front of me.. LOL. I'll probably do it again sometime in the next week or so, which should be almost exactly at the 1.5yr mark.

I'm super happy with my voice these days. I've had several freelance jobs and pass like there's no tomorrow- it's not even a thing that I think about at all unless I work with someone that knew me before transition. It hasn't been a big deal for anyone in that regard either, I'm getting called in by previous clients now more than ever. Such a dream. Couldn't have done it without the forums here and without Dr. Kim.

I kinda want to practice some singing because one of the parts they want me to do in the interview is sing, but you guys... I haven't used my singing voice in prob about 10 years. It's embarrassing, haha. I dunno if I will even try, especially with always being a little shy about my singing voice even before the surgery. Needless to say I have never done karaoke and likely never will ;) sorry if that disappoints. Hopefully there are enough other examples out there to satiate people's questions about singing post op.
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ElleA

Cool thanks Jenny, I was thinking that I would probably document it all either way. Just for my own and others interest. But if they will give you a little cash back that would be awesome. It's a great way to offset the costs of the surgery.

I can't believe I am actually booked in now. It's all quite exciting.
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divineintervention

Quote from: Jennygirl on October 31, 2014, 02:44:43 AM
I did a video just for the heck of it because I saw the somewhat unknown procedure (at the time) as something that a lot of people might benefit from.. and with the sole intention of sharing how it changed my life. If I remember correctly, it was after about a month that Jessie contacted me and offered me some money back if they could use the video on their website. I was ecstatic that they liked it so much to want to use it as part of their portfolio, but never expected anything back except for a thank you. Then they offered me another bonus for a year post op video (which I still haven't done yet).

I actually recorded one the other night, but it was late and I floundered around  in some of my responses to the questions when my cat decided to puke right in front of me.. LOL. I'll probably do it again sometime in the next week or so, which should be almost exactly at the 1.5yr mark.

I'm super happy with my voice these days. I've had several freelance jobs and pass like there's no tomorrow- it's not even a thing that I think about at all unless I work with someone that knew me before transition. It hasn't been a big deal for anyone in that regard either, I'm getting called in by previous clients now more than ever. Such a dream. Couldn't have done it without the forums here and without Dr. Kim.

I kinda want to practice some singing because one of the parts they want me to do in the interview is sing, but you guys... I haven't used my singing voice in prob about 10 years. It's embarrassing, haha. I dunno if I will even try, especially with always being a little shy about my singing voice even before the surgery. Needless to say I have never done karaoke and likely never will ;) sorry if that disappoints. Hopefully there are enough other examples out there to satiate people's questions about singing post op.

Hi jenny! sorry to probe but do you consciously feel like there is something in your throat? like can you actually feel like there's a scar? Thank you!
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Jennygirl

Yes congrats Elle! It's a major milestone for sure. Good lord, probably the hugest one of my transition so far!

divineintervention- no I don't have any sensation like that at all. Nadda. At first I did, it probably lasted me 1.5 to 2 months by the time it was gone. It's hard to remember. Not anymore though, not since I can remember. I also had a cold right when I got home and attributed some of it to that. The only sensation I had was phlegm.. Almost like a post nasal drip. Could have been the cold.

My year checkup with the ENT in Los Angeles showed a perfect healing of the surgical site. She was blown away with how clean it looked, said that she had never seen anterior web creation done so meticulously. I had a very good heal. I was also extremely (almost excessively) careful about my recovery
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celinemealone

Hello every one, I am a new member in this forum and have just begin HRT for 2 months.
I just have a few question in mind about YESON. Recently I have had my first surgery to reduce the prominence of my adams apple and during the consultation with a ENT and Head and Neck surgeon in Melbourne, Australia. I asked about the procedure i would like to get done at Yeson and showed him the website, it came to my surprise that he states that this was a old "2 minute" procedure and should not worth $8000. I was pretty sure about Yeson until now and is considering doing this with the same ENT surgeon, but I am quite concerned of the result since i reckon less people know about this place than Yeson. I hope some one here have some info about the procedure and can help me with my decision  :'(
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Jennygirl

As I understand it (I'm no doctor/surgeon) is that the goal of "anterior web formation" is the same. To fuse part of the vocal folds together, effectively shortening them.

The difference is the technique involved. ENT's are familiar with using lasers to fuse, but Dr. Kim employs a microscalpel (that he apparently designed himself) and permanent sutures. I think with his method there is less risk of uneven fusing and damage to surrounding tissue which could lead to weaker voice due to uneven tensions on either side. I might be a little off base here, so take it worth a grain of salt from me.

Your best bet would be to email Jessie at Yeson and ask her directly what sets Yeson apart from other ENT surgeons familiar with the anterior web creation procedure.

As I just said a few posts back, the ENT I saw in Los Angeles for my 1 year checkup said that it was indeed a common procedure. However she also stated that it seemed to have been done with such precision that she had never really seen anything like it. I mean literally you could not even see that anything had been done (not even a scar line visible where they were fused). There are thousands of ENT's out there, but do you want to go to the one who has never performed a feminization surgery for MtF or the one who has researched and developed his/her technique around it?

Obviously the call is up to you, but I would contact Jessie. Please share back here, because I am interested as well! :) Good luck!
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ElleA

Hi celinemealone, just a question. Was it Neil Valance by any chance. I saw him and was told the same thing.

I ended up doing a lot of research and asking a friend from Adelaide who is also a ENT and she said that the 2 minute procedure is not the same and that they don't suture in the same way as Dr Kim. Similar to what Jenny said the procedures that are approved in Australia use lasers. Neil is grate for tracheal shaves and many other ENT procedures but yeson is far more effective and safe in terms of damage.

My ENT friend is actually the reason I choose Yeson, well that and the results of Jenny and Sarah. She went to a couple of conferences that dr Kim presented at and said that his technique is impressive and there is nothing else like it.
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Jennygirl

Thanks for the info Elle! That doesn't really surprise me and appreciate you sharing the info.

Sounds like that ENT would benefit from a sit-in on one of Dr. Kim's conference lectures ;)
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celinemealone

 :D thank you for your answers, I really appreciated it Jenny and Elle!!

and yes it was indeed Dr. Vallance who I saw, i chose him over a plastic surgeon in Brisbane for my tracheal shave and I am quite happy with the front view, however from side view it is still quite bumpy (i am really skinny and used to have prominent fat trachea :( ) , which i am kinda worry about.

as for my VFS the definite answer now would be YESON  ;)
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anjaq

As i understand it the principle of the procedure dates back to the 1980ies (Wendler glottoplasty) when it was still performed via a neck incision. There is a study from Dr Gross in Berlin from 1999, who performed it on several "transgender patients" and reports the results, which ware somwhat mixed (great variation in the pitch increase, in all cases a loss in volume and a higher dysphonia index). AFAIK they use scalpes and dissolving thread. Later the method was improved more, they then used lasers and stitches with dissolving threads. One thing that seems to persist is the higher dysphonia index (hoarseness, breathiness) and the loss of volume as well as an unpredictability of the pitch increase. I contacted the Clinic in Stuttgart who do the procedure but they said something like a pitch increase of maybe 4 semitones with a 40% closure of the vocal fold opening would be possible. The doctors following Dr Gross in Berlin (he himself does not seem to do this now) apparently tell patients that there is a 1:1:1 chance that it get better:same:worse than before. Amy_Berlin from this forum was at Yeson and showed the doctirs in Berlin her result and apparently they were so impressed that they see little scarring that they want to learn this technique. This apparently sets Dr Kim at Yeson apart from the others. He uses scalpels again and not laser, which seems to be more reliable, especially if he has as Jenny said, done some development on them. He uses permanent sutures which probably allow the sutures to be more stable during the long healing phase (dissolving sutures are gone afte a few weeks when the healing still is not finished completely) and may also just help along in the later times. He also places the sutures differently than other surgeons, not touching the active part of the vocal folds. The rest seems to be mainly experience and precision. With 350+ procedures done he is able to make the sutures very precisely parallel and avoid scarring. The scarring is what makes the dysphonia, uneven sutures make the voice unstable or cause diplophonia. Also he amazingly is able to estimate very well the increase in pitch for each patient and also he seem to manage to increase pitch by 75 Hz, that is about 7 semitones with a 33% suture, which is a higher rate than I read from any of the others.

So I believe that others can learn from him and his long experience. Sadly many ENTs seem to operate on the voice just 3 times a year and then claim it is easy but it is not a good option. I met one of them recently for a consultation. I was horrified at the idea that someone does a procedure 3 times a year - he can never have the experience needed. You would not go to a GRS surgeon who has done this 10 times over the past 5 years or so.

However I agree that the costs clearly are not a matter of how much time is needed. $7000 for a 30 minute surgery plus examination is quite a lot in terms of hourly costs, but you are not paying for the time but for the precision and experience. A FFS or GRS may take only 4-5 hours but you also pay 20k for it.

Quote from: Jennygirl on November 02, 2014, 12:57:43 AM
Your best bet would be to email Jessie at Yeson and ask her directly what sets Yeson apart from other ENT surgeons familiar with the anterior web creation procedure.
If there is a reply to that, I would love to read it and would hope it can be shared here, as this would really be good to have - we are just puzzling stuff together , but a clear statement of Dr Kim about what he is doing differently would be a really good thing to have.

Greetings

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Jennygirl



Quote from: anjaq on November 02, 2014, 05:12:01 AM
However I agree that the costs clearly are not a matter of how much time is needed. $7000 for a 30 minute surgery plus examination is quite a lot in terms of hourly costs, but you are not paying for the time but for the precision and experience. A FFS or GRS may take only 4-5 hours but you also pay 20k for it.

To me, this procedure is priceless in a way- I never felt it was too expensive. I'm sure many women feel the same about their GRS or FFS.

The only reason I could see it being too expensive is if the person simply has zero way to afford it ever. In that case it would be nice to see them offer somewhat of a sliding scale. However, I think Dr. Kim probably has enough work as it is.

A much better idea would be for him to train some other surgeons in different parts of the world, spreading his technique to other areas and making this treatment more available.
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Jessika

I was wondering if I went to Korea to have the procedure done in the future, does flying at high altitude have any effects on the vocal cords after the procedure?
Is it ok to fly?

Thanks
My Fantasy is having Two Men at once...

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Jennygirl

Yes you'll be fine. If anything I was more worried about the clotting risks associated with HRT.

The surgical site is very very small.. I believe an average of 2-5mm in size.

On long flights I usually try to get up and move about the cabin every 90 minutes or so. An aisle seat is helpful for this. If no aisle seat, you can always do calf pumps while sitting in your seat and bend your legs around frequently. I do it on every flight just in case.
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