Shoulders

[Nyri]

I know my shoulders could be much worse, but I'm starting to get really dysphoric about them.  They're pretty much the one part of me that I don't think I will be able to change enough to be happy with (besides my hips, but if my shoulders were wide enough those wouldn't matter). 

I also really don't want to be very muscular... so I don't think putting on a lot of muscle mass will help me feel better about myself. 
Is there any shoulder widening thing?  Kind of like how you can lengthen your legs if they're broken and stuff?  Can you break your collar bone and scapula and get similar results?  Does T do anything to them?

[Jack_M]

T makes it easier to build muscle only, it doesn't do anything directly with shoulders.  If you want wider shoulders the only option is working out the top half.  The idea of breaking bones to get bigger shoulders, get that out of your head, that's not an option.  And even though you don't want to be muscular, wider shoulders come from muscle (or fat), not bones.  You don't have to do anything crazy, even just kickboxing, karate or ITF Taekwon-do (not WTF, they concentrate too much on just kicking) will work on upper body strength through executing punches.  You can also workout without pushing it to strength training levels.  Weights for cardio will build up definition and make your shoulders wider without making you look like a body builder.  V/Stoop pushups are my ultimate go to for easy level shoulder workouts, they get those nice shoulder muscles going.

Check out this video.  The more advanced towards the end definitely work wonders for the harder areas as well as shoulders, but V/stoop pushups are extremely easy and effective.  Even just watching this vid, this guy isn't super buff, he has just nice overall definition.

[Nyri]

Well that sucks that muscle is the only option, really...  Thank you for the video, though.  That guy has really long arms (or it just looks like that, not sure)

I wouldn't mind some definition... I just don't want to be like a rock.  I don't really gain body fat very easily, so... I guess it's either that or being a twig.

[Simon]

You would opt to have your bones broken, pulled apart, and held together with screws instead of lifting some dumbbells? It's not an option but do you even comprehend how painful that would be?

I'm not a wimp by any means but the thought made me cringe.

[Nyri]

No, I wouldn't do it, just like I probably won't get bottom surgery, but the fact that it's possible comforts me... so it would have been nice to know there was the option.  The thought of pain isn't really something that bothers me usually... unless it is involving eyes. 

[Simon]

The thought of pain isn't really something that bothers me usually... unless it is involving eyes.

Nahh, eyes aren't that bad really. Spinal cord is rough. I'm not sure if I'd ever let them cut mine open again.

If you have any muscle on your shoulders it might get denser on T, mine did.

[Jack_M]

Maybe you're looking at working out as making you look like a beast than just simple definition.

Here's a pic of T.J Dillashaw, a bantamweight MMA fighter in the UFC.  He's only 5'6" and 135lbs.  He's definitely not built like a brick-house but check his shoulders:



Also worth noting that collarbone breaks are insanely painful!  There's a LOT of nerves in that area and it is involved in every movement of your arm and takes forever to heal, and after it's broken once, it's easily broken afterwards.  It takes a long time until you're at a more normal risk for a collarbone break.  It's one of the most painful breaks I've ever had and I've broken a LOT of bones!  And I broke it again just 3 months later literally just falling over!

[Jack_M]

No, I wouldn't do it, just like I probably won't get bottom surgery, but the fact that it's possible comforts me... so it would have been nice to know there was the option.  The thought of pain isn't really something that bothers me usually... unless it is involving eyes.

It's NOT an option, no one would do it.  Wider shoulders are not from bones!  I cannot stress this enough, it's not going to happen and no surgery options here other than inserting fake muscles to give you wider shoulders.  If you don't want muscles in your shoulders, you'll have narrow shoulders, there's no natural (or surgical) option to have wider shoulders without muscle/fake muscle or fat. 

Guys who don't do any exercise at all have narrow shoulders too.  Here's a guy I know who is practically allergic to exercise or lifting anything heavy (WARNING: lots of swearing - it's a rap video):

[Nyri]

I guess... just weird that my brother sleeps and plays video games all day has pretty wide shoulders.  I love working out... not cardio so much, but weights and push ups... but I just like hugging squishy people, so I want to be squishy... but also have wide shoulders at the same time, so I'm afraid of making myself... unhuggable.  not that I'll ever be hugging anyone. It sounds like a joke when I type it out. 

I guess I'd be okay if I could get as wide as the MMA guy...

[Jack_M]

Even if he does absolutely no work, occasionally lugging a heavy grocery bag or whatever, even tensing up at a video game could ACTUALLY develop muscle.  It's insane how easily guys build muscle.  My brother doesn't work out at all, but he's got definition himself.  Even the most basic things build muscle.  For him he works in a shop at the weekend so he's occasionally (but not every week) moving a moderately heavy box of goods from the back to the shelves.  Also, when guys are going through puberty, they're at school and school bags can be heavy and they're picking them up and carrying the things on their shoulders.  Just these basic and small things happening as their T levels go up can give them that look effortlessly.

[Nyri]

So... is it as effortless for trans guys on T to get definition like that, assuming they do a moderate amount of work? 

[Jack_M]

I'm personally not aiming to get in any way buff myself.  I have wide shoulders as is from martial arts training I've done since I was a young kid.  I'd say I'm not actually that far off T.J. as is, but I don't have as nice definition in my arms yet because I don't do the excessive stuff and supplements that females need to really push muscle growth, I'm waiting until it's natural on T, well somewhat aided natural.  Lol.

Yeah, we don't have to do anything crazy to develop definition, it's more natural for men to have definition because of T!  However, most of what you see in guys didn't happen overnight so it's not going to be overnight for us either.  We do need to work at it a bit and especially when older and not being as active as boys tend to be at puberty age.  It's common for guys at that age to be running around or playing sports or having a kick about at lunch break/after school.  As we get older we don't have such random exercise sessions so we do need to concentrate more on actually doing something like going out for a run or lifting weights, or going to a sport/workout session.

The reason I suggested martial arts style work outs is because that's what I'm going to be mostly sticking too.  In martial arts there's the theory of power that comes from the following: Concentration; Reaction force; Equilibrium (balance); Mass; Breath Control; Speed.  You know what the most important one is?  It's not mass, it's speed.  So in martial arts you tend to avoid developing a heavy mass because the heavier you are the less light on your feet you are and the less speed you have.  So the idea is definition over build.  Pushups and hitting the bags and weights for cardio will get you the definition you want without the build.

Check out pics of Bruce Lee too - definitely not a super buff guy but obviously has definition.

[Nyri]

Thank you for being so helpful.  I've always wanted to do martial arts... maybe I'll just have to start.  Once I have money for it, anyway.  Maybe I can find some basics in youtube videos until then... and if I get back into college maybe they'll have a class I could take. 

[Jack_M]

Definitely worth looking into, gives you a major confidence boost too.

Just based on having done martial arts since I was young kid and been through a lot of arts, I did a lot of Kung Fu when younger and I have a black belt in Karate and ITF Taekwon-do, I don't like Karate personally (was only classes my parents would let me train in) but I absolutely love ITF Taekwon-do.  WTF Taekwon-do works too much on kicking so it's not so effective for self defense (or working upper body so much) but in ITF classes it's more all over body work and I love it.  WTF is the Olympic Taekwon-do so you can look at examples of fights from the Olympics and you'll see it's all about kicking, which is kinda silly IMO.  Karate does work upper and lower body though, I just find it less effective in any potential real life situation personally.  So that would be my 2 cents on choosing which to get into.  Brazilian jiu-jitsu is also good and kickboxing it a great workout.  But remember, everyone has their own opinions, this is just my own opinion based on 25 years of experience in martial arts (I started martial arts when I was 3).

[Nyri]

Wow, that is really cool that you were able to start so young.  My parents thought it would make me go out and kill people or something... so it was gymnastics or nothing... turned out to be nothing pretty quick. 

This is really helpful... I'm at least remotely interested in every type of martial art, so this will help narrow it down... Aikido was always one I really wanted to do, but besides Kung Fu, I didn't know much about the ones you listed until I read what you wrote. 

[chuck]

So... is it as effortless for trans guys on T to get definition like that, assuming they do a moderate amount of work?

No. looking like an MMA fighter is not effortless.

[mangoslayer]

Im not sure how old you are but no one seemed to mention that if you are young enough, your shoulder bones actually might grow. And I mean like under 18 young. It happened to me and its not impossible, but only if you're young.

[Natkat]

I think working on your shoulder mucles is the only thing who can make them wider. it dosent mean you have to be very musculour or anything.

I got pretty wide hips and arnt really that musculour, yet after T and some working out my hips fat gone away and it got more easy to build mucles in my sholders.

[D0LL]

I guess... just weird that my brother sleeps and plays video games all day has pretty wide shoulders.

That's because he developed them during puberty. There's a difference between naturally wide shoulder bone structure and built-up muscular shoulders. As you're not still in puberty, just assume they won't grow any more naturally. So exercise is your best option. Also realize if you mainly isolate your shoulders in workouts rather than your entire arms, and don't lose a lot of body fat, you won't look like the MMA fighter. You will build muscle under fat, and won't have the definition on the outside, you'll just be a bulkier squishy.

T is the hormone in puberty that grows your body into a male structure, while E grows it into the more petite female structure. That's why your shoulders are small while your brother's are larger. Because of my PCOS and overall messed-up hormones, I grew wider shoulders and very narrow hips, while every female in my family seems to have grown the opposite direction. However, because I'm still genetically female and my body did produce SOME E, my shoulders still are not very wide for a male, rather, they're on the more petite side for a man. But in the week and a half I've been working out again, I HAVE noticed some more muscle around my shoulders already. They don't look incredibly muscular because I've still got a lot of fat to get rid of. But they're definitely wider, more defined, and more masculine.

YES, some people have claimed to have continued to grow their natural bone structure through their T-induced second puberty. But don't ever assume that it will happen to you, as chances are good that your growth plates have fused and you're done growing. Assume that it won't happen so that if it does, it's a welcome surprise, but if not, you won't be disappointed.

Just some food for thought.

[Jack_M]

No. looking like an MMA fighter is not effortless.

To be fair, this question was asked in relation to the moderate definition his brother had and not an MMA fighter.  Moderate definition isn't effortless but it's nowhere near the same level of effort as MMA.  I only posted a bantamweight MMA fighter to point out how working out and getting wide shoulders doesn't mean you have to be like Arnold Schwarzenegger, you can develop decent musculature for definition without being super buff.