Another SRS Panic and One Question

[Nicolette]

In the UK there are only 2 surgeons who carry out SRS on a regular basis and then its probably a maximum of 2 a week. Their techniques are far from the cutting edge and are either straight penile inversion or peno-scrtotal flap not a scrotal graft. Neither technique allows for enough skin to fashion much in the way of labia minora. I know that Thomas quotes an average width of 4-5 mm for this with an average depth of 4 1/2 inches. The external elements are fashioned from from hair bearing scrotal tissue (as is 50% of the vaginal cavity if you have the peno-scrotal flap) so extensive electrolysis is often required. Sensitivity is also an issue and the UK has a lower rate of success when it comes to preserving this.

Contrast this against the experience of major Thai surgeons who carry out one or more surgeries a day. Their technique has developed considerably over the last 10 or so years and certainly where I went they claim to have a 98% success rate in terms of sensitivity (Suporn claims 100%, but then he would wouldn't he). I know the arguments against scrotal grafts and in the UK in particular by Richard Curtis who is vehemently opposed to them. However, where a scraped full thickness graft is used the chance of it taking successfully is excellent. In act I dont know of anybody who has experienced a failure. Problems arise when the graft is compromised by forming it into a mesh in order to squeeze an extra couple of inches from it. Even then there can't be too many failures otherwise Suporn would not have the reputation that he has.

Thank you so much for going into such detail. I'll put Preecha on my list. If I go to Thailand, or abroad anywhere, I'll need to work out how this can be done logistically. I'm not permitted to have such major surgery on my own, but nor would I want to. Because of this, it'll taking some planning. How did Richard Curtis feel about Preecha?

[Susan T]

He was fairly positive. He is very pro the UK surgeons though. As I have said elsewhere on the forum, my original choice was Chet But he was very anti and that really did turn me off. One of my reasons for going to Preecha was that according to his web site I could be back in the UK 2 weeks after surgery. I was going alone I was having the work done during the long school summer holidays. I wanted to be back at work at the start of the new term without having time off. I managed to keep to that timetable but in hind site I was over optimistic and I could really have done with spending a little more time in Thailand and having the first few weeks of term off of work.

[Jenna Marie]

(Yes, Brassard works routinely with circumcised people. I was, and there was no problem whatsoever; same for 11 of the other 12 women I spoke to in the residence. [the 12th needed a skin graft, but was warned in advance that she would. and she wasn't merely circumcised but *really* tiny, she said.])

[Vicky]

Ok, I am a 19 week Dr. Bowers girl, and there is absolutely NO reason for me to ever go back for anything other than a social visit or to accompany another girl. (Which I would do without hesitation.)  My vagina is a combo penile and scrotal flap job, and labia minora came from the penile shaft urethral lining which is a mucous tissue and I do have a degree of self lubrication. Dr. Bowers uses a single surgery technique so the labia minora are there from the beginning.  I have had a VERY easy healing time from what I read here and elsewhere, even though I did pick up a perfectly common yeast infection after I left the hospital. 

My gynecologist who treated the yeastie beasties can only see some very fine scar lines inside my vagina now, and the entire vulva looks similar to the ones my gyno sees on her Cis patients who are my age.  Circumcision was NOT an issue, nor was my age (65) or medical issues (diabetes and ferro-hemochromatosis).  Pain medication was conservative but prompt and adequate while in the hospital, and I left the hospital with no restrictions on physical exercise other than what a catheter bag can do to you.

My dilation regimen is light compared to other girls, but I have 6+ depth to outer labia and easily use my 1 3/8" dilator in comfort at a little over a month post op. None of my potential boy friends will have a bit of trouble, at their age, thats to be expected though.

[Susan T]

Ok, I am a 19 week Dr. Bowers girl, and there is absolutely NO reason for me to ever go back for anything other than a social visit or to accompany another girl. (Which I would do without hesitation.)  My vagina is a combo penile and scrotal flap job.............

.........My dilation regimen is light compared to other girls, but I have 6+ depth to outer labia and easily use my 1 3/8" dilator in comfort at a little over a month post op. None of my potential boy friends will have a bit of trouble, at their age, thats to be expected though...........

Marcie Bowers uses a scrotal graft to extend the vaginal lining and not a scrotal flap. Skin flaps maintain their original blood supply and so in theory have less chance of failure. However, this also means that they can't be places at the distal end of a penile inversion in order to extend it.

I'm glad that your surgery went well Marcie Bowers has a good reputation. A month is a little early for the final result to be seen though. In a year it will probably look quite different.You may find that as the swelling goes down completely you lose some apparent depth or you may also find that like in may case a little excess skin becomes evident. Hopefully it will simply look even better.

[Nicolette]

He was fairly positive. He is very pro the UK surgeons though. As I have said elsewhere on the forum, my original choice was Chet But he was very anti and that really did turn me off. One of my reasons for going to Preecha was that according to his web site I could be back in the UK 2 weeks after surgery. I was going alone I was having the work done during the long school summer holidays. I wanted to be back at work at the start of the new term without having time off. I managed to keep to that timetable but in hind site I was over optimistic and I could really have done with spending a little more time in Thailand and having the first few weeks of term off of work.

He was positive about a non-UK surgeon? That's not like him.

It gets rather difficult if I'm away for more than a couple of weeks. My mother would come with me. But she's not the type to lay about. She'd go insane with boredom. I'd need to find her a way of killing time.

I wonder what the journey back to the UK by plane was like for you. Was it just about tolerable?

I've looked at Preecha's website. I don't see any prices. I'd be so grateful if you had an around about figure to hand? It says penile inversion with scrotal graft. Is this a different type of technique to standard inversion?

Going abroad for major surgery is not optimal, but it may be doable. I have a ball and chain of responsibilities which makes it difficult.

(Yes, Brassard works routinely with circumcised people. I was, and there was no problem whatsoever; same for 11 of the other 12 women I spoke to in the residence. [the 12th needed a skin graft, but was warned in advance that she would. and she wasn't merely circumcised but *really* tiny, she said.])

Brassard seems to be an all round good choice. Were there any language barrier difficulties? Canada is closer than Thailand and the flight time is half. The only major issue is waiting lists. I hear he has a very long one. Perhaps up to 18 months.

[Jenna Marie]

Nicolette - The language barrier was definitely an issue. More annoying than serious, but while it's true that most of Montreal is bilingual, the area around the clinic/hospital is pretty heavily French-speaking. A couple nurses were also not very good in English, but nothing medical was miscommunicated in the end (it just involved a bit more back and forth and restating things than I'd have liked while I was, say, asking for a painkiller!). In fairness, I was apparently also there during a time when the main residence nursing staff was rotating through vacation time, so my issues were primarily with the fill-ins. Who were competent, but the usual effort to guarantee at least one totally English-fluent nurse per shift didn't always succeed.

I can't speak for his waiting list right now, but it was 5 months when I booked a date (though I actually asked for a time farther out than that, to fit with my work schedule), and six months for someone I know who went earlier this spring. I had heard the same about the wait time, and was pleasantly surprised when I contacted them way early to be on the safe side and was offered a date so much sooner than I expected!

[Nicolette]

Jenna, let me get this right. You were circumcised and Brassard managed to give you 5.5" of depth? Does he use the whole glans?

I wonder, could I get away without a first consultation, just arrive for the consultation and have the op the next day? This goes for Canada and Brassard.

[Jenna Marie]

Nicolette : Yes, I was circumcised and got 5.5" of depth, and I don't think he used the whole glans - I believe he removes a small portion (with the total nerves for the whole glans attached) and repositions it to form a clitoris. Not 100% sure on that, but I *am* quite sure what I've got now is far, far smaller than the original glans!

If he uses the rest of the glans skin internally, it wasn't mentioned but would make sense. He did explain that he also removes the bit of perineum where the vagina will go as a whole square of skin early on, and uses that as a "skin graft" (otherwise it would be discarded). Oh, and he uses the urethra from inside the penis as mucosal tissue to line the inner labia and clitoral hood, which means that in my case - where it seems to have turned out as well as could be hoped - I now have moist, light pink, mucosal skin there just as in a natal vulva.

Also, yes, I actually showed up at the hospital the night before; the morning of the operation, I got examined, was told I had enough material, and went into surgery a few minutes later. I know his materials say you have to go for a pre-op consult months before, but as far as I can tell that packet is wrong about half of the details and then they're not as strict about the other half as it sounds. I was pretty surprised, but pleased, that I only needed to make the one trip to Montreal.

(Once again, no reason to think other surgeons aren't as good. I'm answering questions b/c this technique/experience is what I know and I want to help you out, not to push Brassard as the best choice!)

[Susan T]

He was positive about a non-UK surgeon? That's not like him.

It gets rather difficult if I'm away for more than a couple of weeks. My mother would come with me. But she's not the type to lay about. She'd go insane with boredom. I'd need to find her a way of killing time.

I wonder what the journey back to the UK by plane was like for you. Was it just about tolerable?

I've looked at Preecha's website. I don't see any prices. I'd be so grateful if you had an around about figure to hand? It says penile inversion with scrotal graft. Is this a different type of technique to standard inversion?

Going abroad for major surgery is not optimal, but it may be doable. I have a ball and chain of responsibilities which makes it difficult.

Brassard seems to be an all round good choice. Were there any language barrier difficulties? Canada is closer than Thailand and the flight time is half. The only major issue is waiting lists. I hear he has a very long one. Perhaps up to 18 months.

Richard Curtis knew that I would not have surgery in the UK so then we started talking about the merits of the Thai's and any serious complications in patients that he he knew of personally. I was then he mentioned Preecha. I also knew of others that had been to him and who has said they had a good result. Preecha's clinic uses a penile inversion with a scrotal graft. In fact most of the the neo-vagina will be lined with the scrotal graft. Every surgeon has to invert the penile skin to some extent in order to attach the scrotal graft so the term non inversion is in fact inaccurate. If you look at Preecha's options he also terms the procedure as penile inversion when he talks about using a colon graft.
His current price for surgery is $8600 you will also need to pay $100 extra for the full set of dilators.

I used these people to book as i was also looking for other surgery at the same time. There is no difference in price if you book with them or directly with the clinic and you do get extra service http://www.plasticsurgerythailand.com/ You will find the prices of a number of Thai clinic on this site, most of whom will provide a similar outcome. You will need to do the research.

The clinic is in Bangkok so plenty og things to do for your mother During my recovery period I was off around Thailand doing the tourist thing. Sitting is uncomfortable unless you move your weight onto the lower spine. I was able to hire a cab for a whole day for 4000 baht to take me to the floating market, the river Kwai and the Tiger Temple.[/url]
I Don't Think He Bites by Susan__T, on Flickr[/img]

The return trip was uncomfortable and I really wouldn't consider travelling cattle class for this leg of the journey. I upgraded to economy plus and even then I spent quite a bit of time in the bulk head bar area talking to drunken Australians.

[Jenna Marie]

kyh : If it helps any, my roommate and her girlfriend were both Canadians who had gone to Brassard for FFS and came back happily for GRs.

[Rosa]

My other option was Suporn.

... After several months I learned about Suporn's buried secret.

I have been thinking about Supporn. What's this about a burried secret?

[vegie271]

That's really reassuring! I'm not too worried about depth, if that's a problem... Guys like going in the back door anyways... Lol xD I just don't want to regret the procedure because the results were really aesthetically poor or there was some sort of major complication. I'm guessing that Brassard gives pretty consistent results. So I'm really pleased!

  I am sorry I pay that much money for a pretty new vagina and my partner does not want to use it? they get shown the front door! 

[kyh]

  I am sorry I pay that much money for a pretty new vagina and my partner does not want to use it? they get shown the front door! 

They don't have to penetrate my vagina (really wish I had one ), there are other ways that guys can do things with that part of a girl.

xD haha

[Jenna Marie]

kyh - Brassard definitely seems to be very consistent, and in giving good results. I seem to recall that the average cis vagina is about 4", too, so his chosen depth seems reasonable if not large.

I would totally be thrilled to get to go to him for free. Heck, I think it was worth the $19,000 US I paid for it!

[chloe23]

They don't have to penetrate my vagina (really wish I had one ), there are other ways that guys can do things with that part of a girl.

And woman too

[vegie271]

They don't have to penetrate my vagina (really wish I had one ), there are other ways that guys can do things with that part of a girl.

xD haha

Penetrate, touch, kiss, lick, pet, I don't care, just pay attention to me there, not the other side if I spend the next 15 years saving every single penny I have and manage to have surgery and then someone turns me around and ignores what I Consider precious forget them

[kyh]

kyh - Brassard definitely seems to be very consistent, and in giving good results. I seem to recall that the average cis vagina is about 4", too, so his chosen depth seems reasonable if not large.

I would totally be thrilled to get to go to him for free. Heck, I think it was worth the $19,000 US I paid for it!

How can a 7" object fit into a 4" hole? >_< Are guys overestimating their size? Because that's a big difference!

[Jenna Marie]

kyh - Partially guys overestimating, I bet, since the average penis size is about 5". Partly that a guy can't actually get the whole length in there - there's things like hipbones and lower stomach in the way, and the angle of the penis usually makes it impossible too.

[chloe23]

 
How can a 7" object fit into a 4" hole? >_< Are guys overestimating their size? Because that's a big difference!
[/quote]

No a 7" penis cannot fit into a 4" vagina all the way. A neo-vagina cannot stretch like a cis vagina. 5 or 6" of depth in the neo-vagina is more than enough to accommodate an avg size penis, Width is also your biggest concern too.