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I wasn't born in the wrong body

Started by Jamison, July 14, 2013, 10:42:24 AM

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Jamison




Made this video to explain how I feel about the phrase, "born in the wrong body." I'm curious to think what others think.
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~RoadToTrista~

My therapist asked me about this one time. I simply said yes because I didn't really care or think about it, however looking back it wasn't true at all. Tis more like my body is shaped wrong.
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Devlyn

Loved the ending! 

"Jane! Stop this crazy thing! Help! JANE!"

Hugs, Devlyn
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Cindy

Quote from: Jamison on July 14, 2013, 10:42:24 AM



Made this video to explain how I feel about the phrase, "born in the wrong body." I'm curious to think what others think.


Ahh can I sneak in and say you are a really good looking guy.

Ahhhm :embarrassed: Want to date :embarrassed: :embarrassed: :embarrassed: :embarrassed: :embarrassed:

Whoops, sorry I'm old enough to be your grannies granny!

Nice clip

C
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Jamison

Quote from: Devlyn Marie on July 14, 2013, 11:31:56 AM
Loved the ending! 

"Jane! Stop this crazy thing! Help! JANE!"

Hugs, Devlyn

Haha, I swore I edited that part out. It got worse, lol.
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Jamison

Quote from: Cindy. on July 14, 2013, 11:57:21 AM

Ahh can I sneak in and say you are a really good looking guy.

Ahhhm :embarrassed: Want to date :embarrassed: :embarrassed: :embarrassed: :embarrassed: :embarrassed:

Whoops, sorry I'm old enough to be your grannies granny!

Nice clip

C

Lol, probably not grannies granny. I got a gma in her late 80s. Thanks for the compliment, but I'm a "married to my work" kinda guy.
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spacerace

I watched your video.

I agree - I wasn't born in the wrong body. I was born in my body - it just takes some modification to get it where I need it physically.

However - I would want top surgery and T even without societal expectations and cultural gender reinforcement.  But that is just me, and you're right - who knows what would have happened otherwise

Also, some of the other cultures you mentioned who have gender variance still enforce their own gender norms. The third gender is resigned to staying around the family taking care of them, making meals and cleaning, etc - I think it was one of the Polynesian cultures that does this.

The third gender in India is outcast and must only exist in its own role, and it is still shameful for the family.

Everywhere has some form of it, unfortunately
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Ms. OBrien CVT

Anyone told you that you are sexy?  grrrrrr.

And you are right.  If we were in a different culture, we would be seen differently.

  
It does not take courage or bravery to change your gender.  It takes fear of living one more day in the wrong one.~me
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suzifrommd

Jameson, I hope it's not out of the spirit of the other posts for me to give you a serous answer.

I'm hearing two things from your video (correct me if I'm wrong).

1. "Born in the wrong body" has been sort of become a definition of Transgender and it's a poor one.

2. That if our society were more understanding and supportive, we would not be as dysphoric.

#1 is spot on. I agree that I was not born in the wrong body, and most transgender people I've discussed this with have issues with this as a description of our experience.

I'm not sure I agree with #2.

First, I think humans are biologically wired to gender each other and treat males and females differently. It's pretty much necessary for the preservation of the species. We innately figure out whether someone is the suitable sex to be a mate.

Even in the societies you describes, with greater tolerance for non-binary, there are gender roles. It's also hard to argue with evidence that there are physical difference between the sexes that make males and females TEND to act differently (though within each gender there is terrific variation).

I'll also venture my personal opinion that the difference in interaction styles between males and females is not societally driven, but innate. Are there societies where straight, cis men routinely allow themselves to be emotionally vulnerable, while women keep their interactions activity-based and factual?

And it's a documented fact that our brains direct us to "want" to be one gender or another, and that transgender is pretty clearly a physical difference between our sex and that gender direction from our brain, not one of preferring the roles associated with one gender over the other.

I'll speak for myself. My transgender drives me to want to be female in just about every way. This does NOT appear to me to be related in any way to the roles society defines for females. I don't actually want to be a housewife or even a mother (though I'd like to know what it feels like). In a society where women had every opportunity men had and vice versa, I would still want a female body and to be seen socially as female and prefer female interaction styles.

I really liked the video, and I'm glad I watched it and had an opportunity to think about what you said.
Have you read my short story The Eve of Triumph?
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Jamie D

Quote from: Jamison on July 14, 2013, 10:42:24 AM



Made this video to explain how I feel about the phrase, "born in the wrong body." I'm curious to think what others think.

Okay, let me get this out of the way ...

You are such a hottie!

<deep cleansing breaths>  That's better.  (Sorry about the objectification)

You asked the question, in your video, whether you, or any other transperson, in a western society would be dysphoric if they were accepted as a "third gender."  It is a good thought experiment.

However, I believe, that in my own case, that the dysphoria is organic.  That it to say, it results from have a somewhat (but not fully) masculine body (from my 46,XY genotype), but a somewhat undermasculized (or even feminized) brain.  And I see that as the result of things that went on in utero, long before any sort of socialization occurred.

True, societal expectations likely had an effect, but the mismatch of my gender identity (which I believe to be innate and largely immutable), with my phenotypical expression, seems to be the source of my discomfort.

So I see it as both nature and nurture.

Good video discussion.  Thanks.
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vegie271



While I have no problem with other peoples self declaration

I am afraid I have done a great deal of self search - I am in the wrong body - I would die for the ability to bear a child - not possible with this one (and don't go telling me I can participate in having children with another womn another way, I want to be the one carrying the child  :))


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Jamison

I like the discussion so far, keep it coming. And just to clarify, for those who may think otherwise- this is obviously just my own thoughts and in no way am I projecting my interpretation on the entire trans community. On the contrary, I'm trying to recognize it's diversity. I also don't think my dysphoria would be completely gone in a different culture, but it's interesting to think about how my transgender identity would manifest. I also know that these "third sexes" in other cultures are often still seen as a disadvantaged class, but you'll also note that with many of them their situation has worsened as globalization persists. Spread of western norms perhaps? Hmmmmm, so many questions.
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~RoadToTrista~

Quote from: Cindy. on July 14, 2013, 11:57:21 AM

Ahh can I sneak in and say you are a really good looking guy.

Quote from: Ms. OBrien CVT on July 14, 2013, 04:20:12 PM
Anyone told you that you are sexy?  grrrrrr.


Oh, well then, I agree! ;D I was just scared that it might have been inappropriate to blurt it out randomly. :P
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DriftingCrow

Quote from: Jamison on July 14, 2013, 05:10:28 PM
I also know that these "third sexes" in other cultures are often still seen as a disadvantaged class, but you'll also note that with many of them their situation has worsened as globalization persists. Spread of western norms perhaps? Hmmmmm, so many questions.

While not being a big scholar on this topic, I've done reading before on the warias in Indonesia and gender-variants elsewhere, as well as just homosexuality in general, and I think the spread of Western cultures has made LGBTs worse-off in some cases. Such as, in the Arabian peninsula and elsewhere in the middle east, it used to be considered normal to have feelings of a not-exactly-straight nature of members of the same sex, some languages didn't even have a word for homosexuality until Westerns brought the concept in. Also, there's quite a bit of militant Christian (and probably other religions) extremists from Western cultures that are going into developing regions and spreading messages of hate regarding LGBT people while out on missionary expeditions: "We see American evangelists, clearly thrilled to find more fertile soil for anti-gay rabble-rousing than they did at home, whipping up crowds to take action against "sodomites" who would corrupt their children." Quote from this NPR review on the documentary Call me Kuchu .
ਮਨਿ ਜੀਤੈ ਜਗੁ ਜੀਤੁ
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Constance

Having just spent part of the weekend volunteering at the Gender Spectrum Family Conference and being the parent of a gender-fluid offspring, I know that there is more to gender than the binary.

That said, I was born into the wrong culture AND the wrong body.

While I was married, I was never threatened when my wife made more money than me or had an easier time getting work than me. My dream job was to be a househusband. That goes dramatically against my culture, and it had no bearing on my gender identity or need to transition.

My need to transition comes not from how I fear others might perceive me, but from what I know is wrong with my body. There is a physical sense of wrongness on my chest and between my legs.

Yes, I was born into the wrong body. I understand this does not apply to many people under the trans* umbrella. Yes, it would be easier if I had been born into the right culture. But, unless I was "born female" I still would've been born in the wrong body.

For me, this statement is not limiting but true.

Joanna Dark

Great topic. I heard one trans woman say if society were different she would not take hormones and just dress and that  got me thinking and is kinda inline with this topic. Because for me I think I would transition if there weren't a single person left in the world. not only that, I used to daydream of the apocalypse because if everyone was gone that would make it much easier for me to transition. I obviously don't want that but I'm just saying that for me it has almost nothing to do with society. It is completely organic.
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LordKAT

I don't know about being born in the wrong body, but I do know my body is wrong. It needs to be fixed. I don't what or how it went haywire, but it did. Not societal expectations or culture, just physically wrong.

I would not feel better if "trans" or "third gender" were accepted. I am neither. I am a man whose body grew female. This is just wrong.
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monarch

For me, I would have transitioned regardless of society providing other options or not.  When I was younger, I felt like my body did not reflect how I wanted to present myself to the world, so I presented something entirely different.  No doubt that thought process was influenced by societal expectations placed on me.

As I got older, I embraced my masculine side more and more as I saw aspects of masculinity that I liked.  However, my body dysphoria remained regardless of my acceptance of a more masculine gender role, so I doubt another option that allowed me to be present a less masculine side of me would have helped.

In fact, my ability to find happiness meeting western society's expectations of masculinity caused me more confusion and heartache than anything else.  I honestly felt that I was not woman enough to transition, and that I had no business calling myself transsexual.  I even thought I was fetishist , but I felt no sexual excitement while cross dressed.

When I finally decided to transition, both my family and therapist doubted my sincerity to transition because I wanted to maintain a more masculine personality.  Thus the question became why transition when you are happy being masculine?  To them, there really was no good reason for me to transition.  My therapist seemed more than a little incredulous of my desire to transition, and would ask me on several occasions if I was happy as a woman.

Now that I think about it, if I had a third gender option when I was younger, I would probably be a lot more feminine today.  If a third gender option became available during my adulthood, I would have transitioned sooner, and it would have probably been smoother.
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TheLance

I like that there is a variety of feelings about how we were born and all that. It's definitely interesting. I still feel that something was flipped the wrong way or my genetics crossed or something when I was being made because I was definitely supposed to be born physically male. I can never fully fix this (this is just how I feel) but what I can do is close enough for me, heh. I will be happy once I have transitioned physically because I will feel right. I will be comfortable walking around my house shirtless. Yes, I do care about how others perceive me, I am human, but I need it more for my own comfort. I need to feel that I am the man I was meant to be from the beginning, everywhere.
Once you've lost everything, you're free to do anything.
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aleon515

This is an awesome video (and you are one of those really hot trans men). I don't feel like I was born in the wrong body either.
I went to a presentation about the subject you talk about, and very many non-Western indigenous cultures have had third gender or other kinds of trans* persons who were needed by their societies and so on. SOME of these societies do not treat trans* people badly in fact in some cases they are considered sacred-- being able to hold both the male and female, or something like that anyway. I think it is nearly impossible to extrapolate from our experience to how it would be if trans* was welcomed. For instance, I feel that my chest is not right, but I don't actually know how I would feel if the tie-in from gender to secondary sex characteristics were severed. Suppose it were no big deal to have them as a male. I have no idea how that would be.

--Jay

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