Do any of us really pass? Ever?

[Just Shelly]

I hope I never have to go stealth.

I love being trans and I want the people in my life to love that about me as well. It's a huge part of who I am and I do not wish to repress it.

No stealth is not the most enjoyable experience....but being treated like a normal woman....Priceless!!

I'm sorry but I do not enjoy being trans...it's not who I am! It may be what I am if need to be known but why would everyone need to know??

It's not something I repress...how can I theirs always something between my legs confirming it. I feel its very much like being gay...if not telling people your gay means your trying to repress it, then their are many gay people repressing it.

[StellaB]

No stealth is not the most enjoyable experience....but being treated like a normal woman....Priceless!!

I'm sorry but I do not enjoy being trans...it's not who I am! It may be what I am if need to be known but why would everyone need to know??

What makes you think that just because someone is out or open about being trans that they cannot be treated the same as any other 'normal' woman, or.. for that matter, any other 'normal' human being?

For me personally there's no need to be stealth to the people in my life because it doesn't really make that much difference. I'm accepted as female, and being trans doesn't change that fact. Behind my back people talk about me as a woman, not as a transwoman.

Furthermore there's not really that much difference in the life experience between someone who's cisgendered and someone who's trans. It doesn't matter whether you're trans or not, as a woman you get judged on your appearance, the way you present yourself, your behaviour and you face the exact same obstacles and issues in life.

Being trans is a part of who I am and it's part of my reality. The course of my life is different, I didn't go through the same life experiences and rites of passage as a cisgendered woman and to allow anyone who is a part of my life to accept and believe that I have is something which I feel is both dishonest and disrespectful.

Another reason why I am out and open about being trans is that I remember coming out to people at the start. I can recall not just the shock and pain that I experienced from being rejected or abandoned but also the hurt and pain other people experienced as a result of my coming out, their feelings that I had deceived them, and also their pain and anguish at the loss of a relationship.

I remember also what was behind my decision to come out and start transitioning and part of the reasoning was that I was hurting not just myself but other people.

I'm out and open because I don't ever want to go through those experiences again and what's more, I don't want other people to go through those experiences either.

[Joanna Dark]

I think some women pass very well and no one would ever guess. I think others pass but are prolly more plain. Then I think some are borderline. And then there are those that don't pass. Bu in the end as long as you are happy that's all that matters. That being said there are many advantages to passing well: MEN love pretty women! Also, your life will prolly be easier as it will that much easier to be seen as a woman. You see I don't really like being trans and really I just consider myself a woman with a birth defect, one I am correcting. I already pass a lot of time and have been since the two month mark. So I guess I'm lucky but I'm sure I don't always pass but of course I present male still more then I would like to. But I think I have genetics in my favor and I am positive I had a hormonal disorder, I just don't know the nature of it. I also look exactly like my mom and sister and aunts. Like carbon copy. Plus I'm 5'5 with 13-14" inch shoulders and tiny hands and feet. No adam's apple and I naturally have pretty female mannerisms. Everyone says so even pre-transition. I often wonder if I would transition if I wasn't so sure I would pass 100 percent given enough time. But women come in all shapes and sizes so I don;t think a lot my stats matter much as I am still muscular and I won't pass 100 percent until that goes away and laser.

All that being said passing isn't the be all and end all: being happy is. And if you live in a non-accepting area, move. NYC and Cali are very accepting and the people are so nice in Cali. But I don't plan on being stealth to the people I get close to but I do want to go pretty deeply stealth with most people. I would still need to change more for that to happen.

But the OP's wife is dead wrong and acts like all males are these broad shouldered linebackers with john wayne faces. Not true. Height has little to do with anything as a matter of fact. The face is the most important. And there are plenty of really pretty trans women so she's wrong and I think it's a little insulting but I understand why she said it. She's scared. Hoepfully things get better.

[Silvermist]

Which of these supermodels looks more like a man, Gisele Bundchen or Andrej Pejic?




As we all know, Andrej isn't on HRT (yet). Via Google, you can find plenty of people on various sites saying that Gisele "looks like a man." If Andrej looks no more out of place than Gisele does in the world of supermodels, then how well can we pass among "regular" women?

[Nicolette]

Which of these supermodels looks more like a man, Gisele Bundchen or Andrej Pejic?

As we all know, Andrej isn't on HRT (yet). Via Google, you can find plenty of people on various sites saying that Gisele "looks like a man." If Andrej looks no more out of place than Gisele does in the world of supermodels, then how well can we pass among "regular" women?

As we know, passing is more than just a static two dimensional image of a person. It's the sum of all the parts. If we met and spoke to these two in three dimensions, who would then 'pass'?

[Sammy]

As we know, passing is more than just a static two dimensional image of a person. It's the sum of all the parts. If we met and spoke to these two in three dimensions, who would then 'pass'?

Very valid point . Sadly, given their supermodel status, any of the present audience will hardly ever meet them in person to figure out whether they pass or not

P.S. Giselle does not look like a man to me at all...

[Nicolette]

Very valid point . Sadly, given their supermodel status, any of the present audience will hardly ever meet them in person to figure out whether they pass or not

P.S. Giselle does not look like a man to me at all...

Definitely. She has very feminine features. From the photo, there's no indication of having been born male.

[Sammy]

Aaaand going back to transgender - Kim Petras passes 100%.

[bethany]

Definitely. She has very feminine features. From the photo, there's no indication of having been born male.

Just by looking at those two pictures, to me both Giselle and Andrej look like cis womem to me. Andrej looks prettier, and softer to me but thats because of the way his makeup was done. Also the person who worked on his photo could have done a lot of work on it in photoshop to soften his image.     

[Pia Bianca]

Aaaand going back to transgender - Kim Petras passes 100%.

Absolutely. If I were a lot younger or she a lot older, I'd surely take a hit on her given the chance.

That said, there are examples in this forum as well. But this is also from the 2D picture perspective.

[Katie10]

I think that your wife really doesn't want you to change and that she is willin to use anything in her means to prevent you from doing anything.

[vegie271]

What makes you think that just because someone is out or open about being trans that they cannot be treated the same as any other 'normal' woman, or.. for that matter, any other 'normal' human being?

For me personally there's no need to be stealth to the people in my life because it doesn't really make that much difference. I'm accepted as female, and being trans doesn't change that fact. Behind my back people talk about me as a woman, not as a transwoman.

Furthermore there's not really that much difference in the life experience between someone who's cisgendered and someone who's trans. It doesn't matter whether you're trans or not, as a woman you get judged on your appearance, the way you present yourself, your behaviour and you face the exact same obstacles and issues in life.

Being trans is a part of who I am and it's part of my reality. The course of my life is different, I didn't go through the same life experiences and rites of passage as a cisgendered woman and to allow anyone who is a part of my life to accept and believe that I have is something which I feel is both dishonest and disrespectful.

Another reason why I am out and open about being trans is that I remember coming out to people at the start. I can recall not just the shock and pain that I experienced from being rejected or abandoned but also the hurt and pain other people experienced as a result of my coming out, their feelings that I had deceived them, and also their pain and anguish at the loss of a relationship.

I remember also what was behind my decision to come out and start transitioning and part of the reasoning was that I was hurting not just myself but other people.

I'm out and open because I don't ever want to go through those experiences again and what's more, I don't want other people to go through those experiences either.

but it is different for me

1) trans is only a tangential part of my life, see it as a birth defect, I am a womon,   and and was declared wrongly at birth

B) I did not hurt myself at all by transitioning, I just accepted who I was

iii) I did not hurt anyone else - they may have chosen to be hurt by my accepting who I am but I am not responsible for someone else's emotional  problems let them get therapy because they can't deal with being out of touch with their real pain I did not cause it.  I cannot make someone feel bad.  no   one can make you feel bad right? it has been what I have been told all along in therapy if I am not supposed to feel bad when people tease me, why should they feel bad for what I do?

[StellaB]

but it is different for me

Agreed and accepted. I can only post from my own personal experience and perspective but even if I do it doesn't make your experiences and opinions (or those of anyone else) any less valid. We're all individuals at the end of the day, right?

[Cindy]

Sorryy have to put this in.

I was buying an IPad-mini today, (ye I need more computers, two side by side running different sites etc and an IPad to keep in touch as well ) but as it was being connected to a network the guy who was talking to the people doing the network connection over the phone (who had spoken to me for verification purposes) said, "No, she is a rather attractive woman with a deep voice."

I don't know what the question was but prob my female name versus my voice.

I fell in love!

Heee Heeee

Sorry

[Renee]

I don't stress over it too much anymore. I get called babe, sweetheart, dear, honey, darling, etc. by both men and women of all ages, so who knows.

I imagine most of them are scratching their heads at why I often say "good morning" at 4 or 5 in the afternoon and not at how I might appear to them.

[Arike]

I think that your wife really doesn't want you to change and that she is willin to use anything in her means to prevent you from doing anything.

I think so too...

More important is: when time has come that you can't stand it any longer living as a male, then the question of passing isn't relevant any longer... You will just start living as your life should be, as a female... for everything else you'll find a solution, whatever it takes...

Some may find I am lucky because I pass pretty well. Even currently being in Bangkok where I obviously will be more visible as a 6ft white woman (even I weren't trans) I seem to pass all the time, even e.g. in shopping malls crowded with short local Thai people only.
However I still sometimes do not pass... still the same appearance, however it may be a matter of showing no confidence, bodytalk... etc. This mostly occurs when I am tired, have a off-day or something like that..

[Heather]

Passing is a state of mind it's not how you look. The most important part of passing is how confident you are in yourself. If you really see yourself as a woman so will everyone else. Passing is totally in your head because really how do you really know how other people see you? 
Once you stop letting people's opinion of you determine your happiness the better off you will be. 

[Donna Elvira]

Thank you so, so much, ladies. There's so much compassion here, and also common sense. I wish I could reply to every single post individually - because every one of them has made me think, or comforted me, or just forced me to be more honest about myself and my position - but right now there isn't time.

So, once again, THANK YOU ... reading these posts has merely made me even more aware than I already was of what a special resource's Susan's is and how lost I would be without it.

Hi Carlita,
Given your kids ages,  we are probably in a similar age group. I have three kids, now aged 28, 24 and 20. I came out to all 3 of them 2 years ago. My son, the 24 year old, was OK with my transition right from the beginning but my two daughters found it more difficult, especially the eldest. Two years down the road I am now filing for my civil identity change and for this I need testimonials from as many people as possible testifying to the fact that I already live full time as a woman. I asked my kids would they contribute and all three agreed to.

You will find a few extracts from the letter my eldest  daughter wrote below. She started explaining how I had come out in July 2011 and then continued as follows.

"Since then, we have had many occasions to rediscuss the subject  and because of this I have finally understood that it was a real, innate need,  indispensable for his(her) physical and mental well being"

"These last two years, I have observed a huge change in my father, who, in parallel to extensive cosmetic surgeries,  has adopted female dress since coming out and explaining the situation to his (her) children. His (her) personality has also changed with the emergence of a far more gentle side and a shift in his(her) centers of interest towards far more feminine pursuits."

« Today, my father is no longer at all the man we used to know and it is becoming difficult to accept this ambiguous situation where everything about his appearance and personality is feminine while his (her) official identity remains masculine »

She is still uncomfortable with many aspects of my transition, which I genuinely understand,  but because there is love, trust and because we took things one little step at a time, she was OK to write a letter which will contribute to the final disappearance of the father image she struggled so hard to let go of.

Based on this experience, as long as you do things in a manner which is respectful of them, I am sure that as adults, your kids can handle you telling them who you really are.

Wishing you all the best.   
Donna

P.S. From a very tough starting point,among others I am 6'1",  I now pass  comfortably. I did go through FFS to get there but agree with others that confidence also plays a major role. However it is difficult to develop that confidence before you are into the full time phase so at some stage you just have to go for it.

[Jess42]

I hope I never have to go stealth.

I love being trans and I want the people in my life to love that about me as well. It's a huge part of who I am and I do not wish to repress it.

I love that line of thinking Jenny.

Which of these supermodels looks more like a man, Gisele Bundchen or Andrej Pejic?




As we all know, Andrej isn't on HRT (yet). Via Google, you can find plenty of people on various sites saying that Gisele "looks like a man." If Andrej looks no more out of place than Gisele does in the world of supermodels, then how well can we pass among "regular" women?

They both look female to me. It's just Andrej is more beautiful than Gisele.

[pebbles]

Which of these supermodels looks more like a man, Gisele Bundchen or Andrej Pejic?

As we all know, Andrej isn't on HRT (yet). Via Google, you can find plenty of people on various sites saying that Gisele "looks like a man." If Andrej looks no more out of place than Gisele does in the world of supermodels, then how well can we pass among "regular" women?

Not everything is read on appearance alone person I work with is Face blind, She can only identify the gender of a person by there voice and hair, which is explicitly the reason why she said she doesn't like men with long hair. Because before they speak she's prone to embarrassing herself but if your voice doesn't pass completely with her then you don't pass no matter how feminine you look.

And another friend of mine is incredibly observant of body mannerisms and she actually read me despite her mentioning that she only suspected because there was no physical cues in my body.

I myself saw a teenage boy walking down the street on my way to the train station, they had long hair and in my case the only cue I had was there hips begin slightly narrower than their shoulders.