Do I Look, or Could I Pass, as Female?

[Michaela J.]

I agree w/ Julie about the makeup.

Blue eyeshadow can be alluring. But, if your goal is to pass, a more natural white/tan/brown palette will bring out your femininity even more.

I am a HUGE fan of the Urban Decay Naked Basics palette:
http://www.sephora.com/naked-basics-palette-P376213

Recently I just got the bobbi brown "Shimmer Brick" and while a bit more $$, I love it even more:
http://www.sephora.com/shimmer-brick-bronze-P270545

Make-up is one of my biggest worries so this helps rather a lot. Thanks, Jenny!

[KelsieJ]

Hi everyone I'm a long time lurker but this is my first post.

I'm pre-everything, about to start therapy, and my girlfriend and I decided to see what I'd look like with a little makeup. I know I obviously don't pass but I figured I'd still post to see some opinions on if I could once I start HRT and have something other than crappy cheap makeup and a single brush lol

You will do fine - HRT will soften your features. Your makeup needs some work - Sephora will teach you for free

[KelsieJ]

Always thought Debra Harry was great 

I got involved in music in younger days also and met quite a few famous people, unfortunately only about half of them are still alive   

Same here. Back in my WB days bout half the people I knew when I was 19 are dead or dealing with major substance abuse problems. Nearly all the rest made extremely poor choices back in the day that left them pretty much penniless as a consequence, mostly through not understanding management contracts. I walked away from my recording contract rather than be a pawn in someone else's game. Back to the subject here.........

[Shantel]

Hi everyone I'm a long time lurker but this is my first post.

I'm pre-everything, about to start therapy, and my girlfriend and I decided to see what I'd look like with a little makeup. I know I obviously don't pass but I figured I'd still post to see some opinions on if I could once I start HRT and have something other than crappy cheap makeup and a single brush lol

You are looking pretty good already, feminine mouth, lips, chin and jawline, you have a lot of potential! Perhaps a full face and side view photo will enable the others here to do a better critique. Welcome to Susan's!

[anjaq]

You know, I see this happen a lot here. I think members are looking for honest opinions, and in many cases get sugar-coated replies.

This. I wonder - whats the purpose of this thread - is it a feelgood pep-talk thread or is it supposed to be honest? I have seen a couple of times where I just disagreed with the almost ubiquotous "you are looking great" answer but did not rally dare to say anything to not be a downer...

[KelsieJ]

This. I wonder - whats the purpose of this thread - is it a feelgood pep-talk thread or is it supposed to be honest? I have seen a couple of times where I just disagreed with the almost ubiquotous "you are looking great" answer but did not rally dare to say anything to not be a downer...

I would want a completely honest opinion by people who know. I find that girls like us are overly-critical about our looks, but that it's actually helpful because we tend to see 'little things' that can be changed to make a real difference, when those on the outside just look at the big picture.

If I need serious FFS, I would want someone to tell me. For instance, no one pointed out my chin, which I know is the big problem area on my face, and my naso-labial folds. My body is completely wrong,  but when it's closer to where it should be, you can bet I'll want some honest opinions as to what else I need to change, because it helps. Don't worry about hurting my feelings, I want the straight dope

[Miyuki]

That's a good point. I think when I posted my picture earlier everyone went a little easy on me. Maybe it was the picture itself (videos would work better to determine how well someone actually presents as female), but in practice I really can't pass as female. With a little FFS work here and there, and getting my voice to the point where it sounds more female I think I could pass without issue, but as it stands I'm confusingly androgynous at best. Dressing more femininely would help, but frankly I would want to be able to pass as female even in the most masculine clothes I could find.

On the other hand, you'd hate to say something that would discourage someone unnecessarily. One picture usually doesn't tell the whole story. Even if someone has a few things that need work, it's possible that in practice they pass better than the picture they posted makes it seem. Or at least, there are non-surgical things they could do that would put them comfortably inside passing territory. If someone just needs FFS to pass and that's all there is to it, there's nothing wrong with saying so. Just don't nitpick about every minor imperfection you see. I'm sure all of us have at least a thing or two that could use a little work, and ultimately it's not constructive to point out every minor flaw someone has when all it would take is a few minor improvements in order to pass.

[RavenMoon]

This. I wonder - whats the purpose of this thread - is it a feelgood pep-talk thread or is it supposed to be honest? I have seen a couple of times where I just disagreed with the almost ubiquotous "you are looking great" answer but did not rally dare to say anything to not be a downer...

That was my question too. I feel bad about telling someone that certain features are very male and need fixing, but that's what you need to hear if that's what you need. It's part of many trans women's realities. Most of the time it's fixable too, but unfortunately cost money.

I sure wouldn't want someone telling me I'm passing only to be "clocked" in the real world.

(as an aside, I hate that we use these dumb drag queen terms like "clocked" and even "coming out." I'd like to distance myself from that culture, not that there's anything wrong with it... but it's a different mind set.)

[RavenMoon]

For instance, no one pointed out my chin, which I know is the big problem area on my face, and my naso-labial folds.

I don't see them as a "big" problem. Your small nose offsets your chin. Your chin is borderline, and doesn't look out of place to me. I see women with similar chins all the time. But it's all about what YOU want.

I feel the same way about my chin... it might be fine, and I might want it pointier. I don't know. I like long narrow faces. I might be atypical, but it wouldn't bother me if after I had FFS people didn't recognize me. I think some FFS is too subtle, especially with noses. For spending all that money I don't want to find out later that it looks like almost nothing was done. And at the same time don't want to look like Latoya Jackson.  lol

[Shantel]

I would want a completely honest opinion by people who know. I find that girls like us are overly-critical about our looks, but that it's actually helpful because we tend to see 'little things' that can be changed to make a real difference, when those on the outside just look at the big picture.

If I need serious FFS, I would want someone to tell me. For instance, no one pointed out my chin, which I know is the big problem area on my face, and my naso-labial folds. My body is completely wrong,  but when it's closer to where it should be, you can bet I'll want some honest opinions as to what else I need to change, because it helps. Don't worry about hurting my feelings, I want the straight dope

I usually give my honest opinion, but I don't pretend to be an expert on facially feminine features and usually complement what I think is attractive though not everyone may think those same attributes are attractive at all. I refrain from replying to some photos that someone who is just plain butt ugly put up because some folks are really emotionally fragile and after all this is a support forum and we don't want anyone becoming depressed and harming themselves out of a sense of hopelessness. There are others that post photos every week, I usually respond the first time and don't care to over inflate anyone's egos beyond that. Meanwhile, you'll not see my photo there because I'm as homely as ever and refuse to expose you to the feeling that you need to be polite.

[Riley Skye]

I'll be honest in threads like this I prefer kind honesty. You can tell someone what they don't pass and what they can do without being mean and/or overly critical. I think the key here is that we need honesty, support and tips of what we can do to progress in our transition. Compliments are definitely welcome when see progress but I don't think we should sugar coat this because at least how I think that this is a more serious picture thread.

I personally know that I don't pass but that my face and body are really beginning to feminise well, my friends and therapist always tell me.

[Miyuki]

Maybe what we need is some sort of objective rating system. How about this?:

5/5: 100% pass. It would be impossible for you to be considered male, even if you tried.
4/5: Mostly pass. You pass, but there are still things you could do that would improve your passability.
3/5: Borderline pass. You can pass at least some of the time, but you're still going to get clocked if someone looks at you critically.
2/5: Not quite pass. You don't pass, but you're not a lost cause. It could just be that you're not trying hard enough in your presentation, or you may need a little work done to smooth out your masculine features.
1/5: No pass. The bad news is that you don't pass. The good news is that FFS is an option, and almost anyone can pass if they get the right work done.

I think that would be a fair way to let someone know where they stand, without being mean or discouraging. It may seem demeaning to turn your ability to pass into a number on a scale, but I think most people will be appreciative to have real and meaningful feedback. And of course you should always be sure to let someone know what their positive points are and what they need to work on.

[Ms Grace]

If makeover TV shows (and movies like Mrs Doubtfire & Tootsie) have taught me anything it's that with the right help, look, presentation and mindset then a person can look stunning and completely different. It's a shame there isn't a makeover show for trans* people because it would prove that with the right attention to detail anyone (yes, anyone) can pass. I'm loathe to say whether anyone can pass from just a few photos, I've mentioned elsewhere that passing is so much more than how you look - it's posture, presentation, wardrobe, attitude, confidence, etc. The most gorgeous gal might look like she could pass 100% and yet she walks like construction worker with the posture of a cave man. Many photos make it so hard to judge - glum, dimly lit, over posed, odd angles, tightly cropped or only part of the face, pre-HRT... so who am I to say if someone "could pass"? Like I said, I think pretty much anyone could pass with the right attention to the right details. Can they pass 100%? Probably not, there are people out there who notice stuff like that because they are trans* themselves or because they're ->-bleeped-<-s or whatever. There are some very fragile people on this forum, some of them because of their gender dissonance, some due to other issues - so I'd be loathe to say to anyone they couldn't pass based on a few pics...

[LittleV]

If makeover TV shows (and movies like Mrs Doubtfire & Tootsie) have taught me anything it's that with the right help, look, presentation and mindset then a person can look stunning and completely different. It's a shame there isn't a makeover show for trans* people because it would prove that with the right attention to detail anyone (yes, anyone) can pass. [snipped]

Of all the things on this page this really caught my eye. Yes! I vote for this to happen. With FFS, hip and breast implants free of charge for all the participants! 

But on topic of the late arguement, why couldn't one blend honest with encouraging reply so as to make the best of both ways?
I don't know but think there is middle ground to be met here somewhere.
While I like receiving a supportive and conducive reply myself, I don't want to have the truth conceiled from me only to learn it the harder way.
People who advocate for encouragement fear being unkind to make a completely honest answer, but honesty doesn't equal unkindness.
Neither does too much encouragement automatically mean good.
I can't elaborate any further, but I hope someone will understand what I'm getting at.

In short: overly encouragement =/= support*, honesty =/= bluntness.
*not always

I edited the post, accidentaly used the wrong word there, sorry.

[RavenMoon]

Of all the things on this page this really caught my eye. Yes! I vote for this to happen. With FFS, hip and breast implants free of charge for all the participants! 

Where do I sign up? 

But on topic of the late arguement, why couldn't one blend honest with encouraging reply so as to make the best of both ways?

I agree, and this is what I try to do. I haven't seen a photo posted yet where it was "no way, you are hopeless!" But I do look for the positive features and what needs work.

Some girls needs hardly any and some need more.

[truetranssoulrebel]

This is me almost 5 months on HRT - still seeing a man in the mirror 

[michelle666]

This is me almost 5 months on HRT - still seeing a man in the mirror 

The only man I see in that picture is the little pic of Oscar Wilde on the book. You look great.

[Lexi Belle]

This is me almost 5 months on HRT - still seeing a man in the mirror 

Just need to stop seeing the man, I still have that problem too!
I have so many people telling me to shut up I have a very feminine face- I just never can see it.  I always see the face of a guy.

In the end I know I'm a woman though, so whatevs.

[Lauren5]

This is me almost 5 months on HRT - still seeing a man in the mirror 

I see a little bit of it left. But not too much. Give it just a little bit longer, you're looking great so far!

[diamondforever]

Hi, i was wondering if you think i'd pass?
Please be honest and tell me the truth.
I look crap cause no makeup and a horrible wig lol.
Thanks


http://www.flickr.com/photos/108147818@N06/